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Should Custer have taken the GatlingGuns with him to the Little Big Horn?
Much to do is made about Custer's decision not to take a battery of Gatling guns with him to the Little Big Horn onthe premise that they would slow him down.
We now know, that Custer was right...Reno took the guns...and they slowed him down. Interestingly the 7th and 2nd Cavalry were short of horses in June 1876 and the horses assigned to the batteries were condemned cavalry horses - not fit for service. As Reno's column advanced, the guns lagged behind, one overturned, several times, the crews had to break the guns down and haul them across gullies and once, they got lost and had to abandon the guns on the plains until daylight.....taking all that into consideration, Custer probably SHOULD have taken them...and might not have ended up the the pickle he found himself....
We now know, that Custer was right...Reno took the guns...and they slowed him down. Interestingly the 7th and 2nd Cavalry were short of horses in June 1876 and the horses assigned to the batteries were condemned cavalry horses - not fit for service. As Reno's column advanced, the guns lagged behind, one overturned, several times, the crews had to break the guns down and haul them across gullies and once, they got lost and had to abandon the guns on the plains until daylight.....taking all that into consideration, Custer probably SHOULD have taken them...and might not have ended up the the pickle he found himself....
Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
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Of course, they might have intimidated the Indians, so it's hard to say absolutely no. And since he lost, there's always the claims "If he only had....".
"poorly led" enemy, his rush to close with them before they "got away" was his undoing. His desire for more write ups in the papers clouded any fair judgement he had of the situation. The widow Custer made it the rest of her life's mission to glorify her husband's demise.
JAY
"Custer Had It Coming"
Paul
Plus, they'd be really hard to clean shooting BP. Can't disassemble one easily. And they'd be a lot more expensive and slow to reload.
I believe the Turks are the only one that used lever guns in battle. 1895 Winchesters, I believe. Which could be reloaded with a clip, IIRC.
Edit: I agree Custer was not a nice guy. He virtually slaughtered an Indian village at Washita, in now OK. Peaceful Indians, as well. Not a loss of a single Trooper. The circumstances were kinda similar to Little Big Horn in that he attacked a village, although the end was not at all what happened at Washita. Maybe he had this in mind at Little Big Horn.
As to the lever actions, one has to remember that for the longest time, the Army was worried about people wasting ammo. I mean, 1903 Springfield rifles has a mag cutoff to prevent them from being used as a repeater unless it was "necessary."
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
I also found of interest that it was the belief of Reno that there was no "Last Stand"...that after his arrival at the scene the following day, from the disposition of most of the dead enlisted men, scattered out as they were, that the fight had turned into a rout.
Also, a notable character, First Sgt John Ryan, M Troop, 7th Cavalry was with Reno when they tangled with the Lakota and Cheyenne...First Sgt. Ryan had toted along his personal 15 pound Sharps with a telescopic sight in "Caliber .45" (I can't find if this was a .45-70, but suspect that it was) and used it to good effect to keep the Indians at a distance. There are those who believed that Ryan should have been received the Medal of onor for his service that day... for more on First Sgt. Ryan
http://csharpsarms.com/famoussharps-article/14/First-Sergeant-Ryan.html
Poor command, pisspooer tactics, and over confidence on Custer's part.
BTW, the Turks used Winchester Model 66s against the Russians when the Russian and the Ottoman Turks were waring. They lost the battle but inflicted huge casualties on the Russians. The Russians did use the Model 95s in 7.62 x 54 Russians.
This would fall on the shoulders of the "Chief of Procurement" James Ripley, who, through the civil war, fought the acceptance of repeating firearms tooth and nail (The Spencer and the Henry). believing them to be "Newfangled gimcracks" and would do nothing but waste ammunition. Also he could buy a percussion musket for $18.00, a Spencer was $40.00
Rain-in-the-Face and other warriors accounts downplay the repeating rifle theory...they attest that at the end they did most of the killing close in with clubs and tomahawks....
Now they could have used some Gatling guns
The Gatling Gun battery was manned by infantrymen from the 20th Infantry on detail as artillerymen.....This was a three-gun battery, each gun manned by 8 men...the battery went afield with 2 Officers, 24 NCOs and enlisted men and each gun and ammunition caisson was pulled by a 4 horse hitch of condemned cavalry horses....
Custer, as it turns out, also refused an additional 4 troops from the 2nd Cavalry...probably a good thing for those troopers considering who was leading them....the death toll would have been larger....
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....and a gunship....
Yes, but look what happened to them.
''According to sources the Turkish army defending the front along the River Danube at Plevne(today in Bulgaria) aginst the Russians in the Turco-Russo War 1877-78 Turkish army had 2 kinds of rifles.
a- the long range 45 inch one -shoot- rifle called Peabody Martin produced by USA company Providence Tool Company, Rhode Island
b- Winchester rifles
Turkish commander Osman Pasha (later fieldmarchal, free mason and Ghazi) created a new tactic during the war to stop the Russians, He gave every oldier a Martin and a Winchester. As the assoulting Russians were in a range of 1500 meters the Turks fired their Martins. As they were within 150- 200 meters Turks fired Winchesters which had a capacity to hold 17 bullets. Thiis tactic coused the Russians many casualties.''
Bit of a different slant perhaps, may be of interest, if not seen before.
We brought ours along;
Zulu war 1879.
Second, if they really wanted to win they should have sent Mackensie and the 5th.
Third, some accounts say when they killed their horses for breastworks the horses fell on the ammo bags and the troopers ran out of ammo. Later cavalry commanders told troopers to put ammo in their pockets.
Fourth, Custer got by as long as he could with no brains.
The Turks are good to have on ones side. I read in Korea they did some some very heroic work belly crawling up a hill and using blades on the CHICOMS/North Koreans to good effect.
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
Brave. Not worthy of admiration in my book. He was an azzhat who got people killed unnecessarily. He LOST. If he had won, he wouldn't be a hero.
Anyway, the Golden Cavalier is one of my heroes, and his portrait hangs in my den, in my gallery of great Indian fighters, right between Hernando Cortez and Francisco Pizarro.