ATI ARs ???

RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior MemberPosts: 4,646 Senior Member
Here's one review:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/04/foghorn/gun-review-ati-omni-hybrid-polymer-ar-15/

An LGS here has a truck load coming in next week and they'll retail for $499. The review says they stink. I've seen stripped lowers around here for from 70 to 130 bucks. Would that solve the function problem mentioned in the review? I really only want one 'cause the government doesn't want me to have one. So I'm not interested in expensive after market triggers, etc. But it does need to function reliably.
Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs

Replies

  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    I would stay far away from one of those Omni pieces of crap. Buds gun shop has at least half a dozen different brands of carbines for $600 currently.

    I just recommended my this one for a birthday present.
    http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_1049/products_id/88912/CMMG+55AED49+Bull+Barrel+SS+223+Rem5.56+NATO+16%22+30%2B1+6-
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,769 Senior Member
    I have heard mixed reviews of the Omni lowers. The first generation were unbridled pieces of junk, but the new ones with the metal inserts are the ones that some people like, some don't.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,442 Senior Member
    I would steer clear.
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,393 Senior Member
    WalMart has ARs for under 6.
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    If Eugene Stoner had access to polymers available now......even he would say "nope, that ain't working"....I believe Polymer lowers can work if it's reinforced right like Glocks and such.....the higher rifle pressures are critical in the recoil dept on the AR platform...it can be done.......but it looks like ATI didn't come to the show with it's sunday best.
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    I can understand your attraction and curiosity regarding the ATI Omni rifle. At $499, it is an attractive price, especially when you consider that no AR15, regardless of who makes it or what it's equipped with costs more than two bills to manufacture, even the heavy barrel target/varmint models. FYI, the piston driven models cost about two and a quarter. Who wants to get ripped off? Bushmaster and Windham Weaponry have successful polymer framed AR platforms, and although they are laughably overpriced (the polymer frame costs less than $5 to produce - polymer frames for handguns cost as little as $2 to make), so why not a manufacturer charging a half-way honest price for a polymer gun for a change? Alas, it is not to be. ATI skimped on the engineering, where the plastic should have been reinforced, it was not. I too have read the awful reviews of this rifle, however, most of them are several years' old. If over time, ATI has addressed the issues and solved the problems, then go for it. If they haven't, pass on it.

    However, for about $50 more, you can buy a new DPMS Oracle. A real metal frame, and an established reputation for reliability and outstanding accuracy make it a genuine value. That would be my choice for a reasonably priced AR15. But then, I would never pay more than that for any AR, made by anybody. I still have to look in the mirror now and then, and I don't want to see "sucker" magically appear on my forehead.
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    Horse where do you get these numbers? You have spouted this crap off more than once.

    Parting thought, what do you against these companies making a profit?
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    Horse where do you get these numbers? You have spouted this crap off more than once.

    Parting thought, what do you against these companies making a profit?

    The best I can give you for a "source" is that I know a few people in the biz. Unfortunately, no specific websites, so take it or leave it. A Glock frame is made from a high tech plastic polymer called Nylon 6. The commercial price for high-grade Nylon 6 is well under $4/pound. Of course the mold needed can run to a quarter of a million bucks, but that's quickly recovered and those molds are long-since paid for. The final cost on a finished polymer Glock frame is a hair under $3.

    I have absolutely nothing against a company making a profit. Back when I was a restaurateur, my food cost on a pizza was under 25%. Pasta dishes even less. That's the beauty of Italian food - the colors, aromas, and flavors all scream 'value' while the owner laughs all the way to the bank.

    One of these days, a company like Keltec, Taurus or ATI is going to do its engineering homework, and put out a reliable, accurate and well-finished AR15 for around $400 and own the market. Nobody has to bother right now because the politics of the times has created a market that will bear any price. The Russians taught us that rifle ammo can be manufactured, packaged, shipped halfway around the world, imported, wholesaled, distributed, and despite passing through all those middle-men, still retailed for $.22/round or less. The Romanians, Poles and Yugoslavians (Serbians) were making new AK47s and AK74s that were perfectly serviceable and retailed, before Newtown, for well under $400 - and they were all steel. My Saiga .223 carbine retailed new for $299 from J&G Sales a few years ago. And that was more than they cost a few years before that. A low-cost, quality AR15 for $399 is coming - sooner or later. Bank on it, you heard it here first.
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    I dont doubt the price on ARs will continue to drop, to a point.
    Other than that, there is no way you can seriously compare a Saiga .223 to an AR. Sure both are .223 or 5.56 but the similarities end there. The Saiga has nowhere near the capability of a run of the AR.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,393 Senior Member
    I dont doubt the price on ARs will continue to drop, to a point.
    Other than that, there is no way you can seriously compare a Saiga .223 to an AR. Sure both are .223 or 5.56 but the similarities end there. The Saiga has nowhere near the capability of a run of the AR.

    Farmboy,

    To somewhat mirror what horse said, I actually have a significant background in polymer injection molding as it was the industry that fed me, clothed me, educated me and gave my dad a wonderful retirement as he was the factory manager and I worked there summers while in college. For the last 40 years, I've been telling anyone who'd listen that the Glock (the original really successful plastic gun) was priced outrageously considering the manufacturing costs. A Glock frame, is molded with inserts for pennies! Literally. I doubt it costs a dollar to make a Glock "frame" in material cost. Add to that, the placement of the inserts before the mold plates close and you are probably looking at $1. Well, that would be in America. Don't know what Austria adds to the mix as far as material costs.

    If you compare how a Glock (and all the other polymer pistols) lock up, you'll see that machining is about as basic as it can be. The 1911 has three locking lugs machined into the slide. The Glock - et al - uses the chamber hood to be one big lug. It doesn't come any simpler than that. If you add it all up, a GLock, a Springfield XD and every other plastic framed pistol should cost less than $200 and that would still make GLock a rich man.
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    I dont doubt the price on ARs will continue to drop, to a point.
    Other than that, there is no way you can seriously compare a Saiga .223 to an AR. Sure both are .223 or 5.56 but the similarities end there. The Saiga has nowhere near the capability of a run of the AR.

    I dunno. I think their capabilities (M4 configured AR15 and Saiga .223 Carbine) are quite comparable, at least as far as my needs (home defense) go. Both are proven, tacticool military designs. My Saiga (AK) carbine goes bang every time I pull the trigger, and it goes bang as fast as I can do so. And true to the earned reputation of Kalashnikov actions, it will keep going bang until the cows come home. It takes high capacity magazines. It is festooned with rails and aftermarket toys (optics, light, laser, etc.). The AR gets a check mark for accuracy, which is often under 1 MOA, but the Saiga, at 1+ to 3 MOA, depending on ammo, is more than accurate enough (again, for my needs). The Saiga (AK) gets the check mark for reliability, ruggedness and simplicity of maintenance, although the reliability of today's ARs are much improved over their earlier iterations. Many ARs have an adjustable stock, but I can put one on my Saiga if I want to, however, I actually like the traditional carbine stock. Granted, the AR, with its changeable uppers, is unequalled for flexibility.

    Under harsh climatic conditions, such as the A/C breaking down, I'd rather have the Kalashnikov. Over the varied terrains I must encounter - pavement, grass, linoleum, tile, carpet, even stairs (!) - again the nod goes to the AK. But do not be fooled, grasshopper, even in the Forbidden Zone, outside the city limits, the AK is unsurpassed for reliability.

    So, all in all, I would say both weapons are equally capable, with each earning an eccentric nod here or there over the other. It's a wash, coming down to personal preference, until you add price into the equation. At half the price of an entry-level AR, and a third or quarter of the price of a 'good' AR, the Saiga is unmatched for value.
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    I appreciate all the replies but no one is answering the question. Would a stripped lower swapped out fix what ails this gun, reliability wise.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 19,009 Senior Member
    I appreciate all the replies but no one is answering the question. Would a stripped lower swapped out fix what ails this gun, reliability wise.
    MAYBE
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Maybe, but for the same amount of money you would have In the P O S once you replaced the lower....you could have a good one. With a warranty.

    This.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    I appreciate all the replies but no one is answering the question. Would a stripped lower swapped out fix what ails this gun, reliability wise.

    Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose though? You want something cheap and made of plastic...you want cheap.......well we've told you......cheap comes with a price.....it has to be done right.......otherwise take your twisted panties and buy Aluminum ......it's your dollar, spend it as you will. A stripped AR Lower should be around just over $100 to $150.... cry price and realize supply/demand....cry until you you can make it better.......until then......shut yer pie-hole until YOU can make it better...........the ATI FAILED......move on. Cause if you buy all the kit and have to replace the base......well just add another 2 bills for a replacement lower. Sigh.........AR Builders aren't doing it to beat the system........we build the damn things to our specs cause we want our thing as we see fit...........not for you or others......it's a ME thing. I have two I've built........ones a Pdog/target rig....the other is an M-forgery suitable for Coyotes....To answer your ? Tracy........yes.....replace the lower.......problem solved.
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,318 Senior Member
    Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose though? You want something cheap and made of plastic...you want cheap.......well we've told you......cheap comes with a price.....it has to be done right.......otherwise take your twisted panties and buy Aluminum ......it's your dollar, spend it as you will. A stripped AR Lower should be around just over $100 to $150.... cry price and realize supply/demand....cry until you you can make it better.......until then......shut yer pie-hole until YOU can make it better...........the ATI FAILED......move on. Cause if you buy all the kit and have to replace the base......well just add another 2 bills for a replacement lower. Sigh.........AR Builders aren't doing it to beat the system........we build the damn things to our specs cause we want our thing as we see fit...........not for you or others......it's a ME thing. I have two I've built........ones a Pdog/target rig....the other is an M-forgery suitable for Coyotes....To answer your ? Tracy........yes.....replace the lower.......problem solved.

    Sandy ****?
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,321 Senior Member
    I appreciate all the replies but no one is answering the question. Would a stripped lower swapped out fix what ails this gun, reliability wise.

    I don't think any of us knows the answer since none of us has apparently owned such a rifle. It "might" or it "might not". Seems to me to be a question for an engineer, not a board question at all. Not enough data to make a judgement, really. It would all be supposition on our part.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,458 Senior Member
    I purchased an ATI stripped lower during the mass panic following Sandy Hook.

    After careful review, I promptly sold it with my DPMS upper. Kept the DPMS lower and put a Colt 14.5" upper on it.

    My humble opinion on ATI Omni receivers (or whole guns using said receivers) is don't walk away from one. Get in your car and drive as fast as you can away from one.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,393 Senior Member
    WHy did you get rid of the DPMS upper? I thought it shot well for you.
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,328 Senior Member
    I've got one of the ATI Omni polymer lower recievers. I was talking to a buddy right after the SH shooting rush started and lowers were much harder to get for a decent price. He found these things at a local gun shop and bought two of them; one for him and one for me. I felt kinda bad when I saw them and really didn't want to have to pay him for the one he picked up for me. I kinda brushed it off. Fast forward to a few weeks ago, same buddy came over to my house the day after my birthday to have a few beers and grill some steaks. He gave it to me for my birthday. Nice gesture. I have no clue what I'm going to do with it. If it will go together somewhat ok, I might build a super cheap, light truck gun out of it. At least if the lower sucks, I can buy a better lower and have everything to complete it.

    On a related note, I did order an ATI Px2 shotgun the other day. Absolutely don't need it, but they were on sale at PSA for $99. For that price, I'll take one for a beat around/training gun. If it functions reliably, it will go in the bedroom. If it breaks or gets stolen, I'm only out $100.
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,458 Senior Member
    WHy did you get rid of the DPMS upper? I thought it shot well for you.


    Oh it did, but with the sequester and all I had a deal fall on my lap with a almost brand new Colt upper I couldn't refuse. I say almost brand new, it was fired but never had a bullet through the bore.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
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