Forum elk hunt?

2

Replies

  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,768 Senior Member
    To elaborate a bit more, personally, true elk rifles start at .30 and go up from there. Doesn't have to be a big tooth jarring magnum (though they are nice IF you shoot them well) but if ain't fast, at least make it big.
    338 fed/338-06, 35 whelen, 350 rem mag, 9.3x62....much better
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 7,355 Senior Member
    To elaborate a bit more, personally, true elk rifles start at .30 and go up from there. Doesn't have to be a big tooth jarring magnum (though they are nice IF you shoot them well) but if ain't fast, at least make it big.
    338 fed/338-06, 35 whelen, 350 rem mag, 9.3x62....much better

    THat's my mindset. You don't need a punishing magnum to get the effect I described earlier. A 30-06 would be safe bet and up to your comfort level beyond that for a big boned critter you may have to shoot at 300+ yards.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,420 Senior Member
    Hmm, so maybe I should snag one of these Weatherby Vanguards on sale for $350?
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "It's far easier to start out learning to be precise and then speeding up, than it is having never "mastered" the weapon, and trying to be precise." - Dan C
  • BPsniperBPsniper Banned Posts: 1,961 Senior Member
    Hey, a new rifle!! Sounds like a plan. Post pics!!!!!
    "....the true general purpose big-game cartridges used in this country come in but two calibers, .30 and 7mm. (the .270 Win. is merely a slightly aberrant 7mm whose bullets are .007" undersize.) -Finn Aagaard - American Rifleman, December 1986
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,768 Senior Member
    Hmm, so maybe I should snag one of these Weatherby Vanguards on sale for $350?

    You know I was going to suggest that exact solution to your problem!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,768 Senior Member
    But if you can swing another 75$...the NEW Vanguard II is a damn fine rifle. MOA guarantee, adjustable trigger, and the stock is miles above the old style's.

    270 WSM (I know, its not a 30, but the extra speed IMO, turns this into a real option since it'll toss the 150 and 160's with some authority)
    30-06
    300 Win
    300 Wby
    300 WSM
    338 Win
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,230 Senior Member
    338 Win

    SS3-- Go with that one!!! Shooting a 210 Swift Scirocco (or NBT) at 2700fps (starting load) gives you plenty of killing power, modest recoil, and the trajectory of a 30/06. It literally begins where the 7/08 ends as far as power is concerned and is good medicine for all but the largest African animals. For a college kid on a budget, that one rifle will cover all of your bases.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,768 Senior Member
    7-08 and a 338 Win? Yea, I think you'd be able to shoot anything on any continent minus the heavier dangerous game. And what college kid is taking trips after tuskless elephant and buffalo?
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • BPsniperBPsniper Banned Posts: 1,961 Senior Member
    Trouble is, the boy has stated a distinct lack for love of recoil, if I recall correctly. Even with the lighter bullets, the .338 WM is probably NOT going to be his best friend.

    Though I love the .338 WM, it is not a choice for recoil inexperienced shooters. If I'm wrong and he doesn't mind recoil.....excellent choice.
    "....the true general purpose big-game cartridges used in this country come in but two calibers, .30 and 7mm. (the .270 Win. is merely a slightly aberrant 7mm whose bullets are .007" undersize.) -Finn Aagaard - American Rifleman, December 1986
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,230 Senior Member
    If he can handle the rest of those cartridges loaded hot, he can handle a .338 loaded light. Do you think for one minute I was shooting those puppies balls out when I was 13? Heck no! I was shooting 210 NPT's and 200gr Speer Hotcores with starting loads of powder. I am betting we could turn them down a bit more to give ballistics that match the .338 Federal.

    .338 Win mag is incredibly versatile (just like your .458 is). The difference is that when the others run out of steam, the .338 still has a long way to go and you can even make it go to 11.
  • BPsniperBPsniper Banned Posts: 1,961 Senior Member
    Hey, I'm all over the .338 WM with love. If he is able to lighten the load and not ruin himself, I'm behind him all the way. Don't think he is up and running on loading. Maybe soon though.
    "....the true general purpose big-game cartridges used in this country come in but two calibers, .30 and 7mm. (the .270 Win. is merely a slightly aberrant 7mm whose bullets are .007" undersize.) -Finn Aagaard - American Rifleman, December 1986
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,230 Senior Member
    And if the Army stations him in Alaska, he will be set for moose and brown bear. He was talking about picking up a hand press and starting up loading. It would be a good excuse for him to take the plunge.
  • WeatherbyWeatherby Senior Member Posts: 4,772 Senior Member
    It's not like were talking to a hard headed Texan like BP OH wait
  • BPsniperBPsniper Banned Posts: 1,961 Senior Member
    Weatherby wrote: »
    It's not like were talking to a hard headed Texan like BP OH wait
    Hey, I am distinctly NOT a Texan!!! Not from here. Don't like it here. Can't wait to get OUT of here. I'm in Purgatory!!!!!!!
    "....the true general purpose big-game cartridges used in this country come in but two calibers, .30 and 7mm. (the .270 Win. is merely a slightly aberrant 7mm whose bullets are .007" undersize.) -Finn Aagaard - American Rifleman, December 1986
  • WeatherbyWeatherby Senior Member Posts: 4,772 Senior Member
    :rotflmao:
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,857 Senior Member
    wildgene wrote: »
    ...150's are fine for deer, but was me, loading for a 7mmRM, I'd be looking @ a heavier constructed 160 or 175gr. bullet. Comparing bullets of similar design, it's been my experience they hold up better if you have a close shot in the timber, & once you get out where things start to get interesting, say 350+yds., they're generally holding their velocity better, deliver more energy & better penetration. You need to push a lighter bullet @ considerably higher velocities to outperform a heavier bullet @ longer ranges, & they become a liability @ short range. Super-flat trajectories w/ a MPBR of 500yds. is great, but I'd just as soon hold a couple inches higher @ 400yds., & use a bullet that I know is going to work like it's supposed to...

    What do you think Wildgene? Is a quality 160 enough? I think a 7 mag would still push a 160 along at a good clip. I mean you guys know infinitely more than me about elk. I've seen em from a car but that's about the limit of my experience. I am all ears here.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,857 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    I'm hunting units 68/84 for elk this year, and 69 and adjacent GMUs for deer. I'll be hunting the season that starts on Nov. 5 and runs through Nov. 13. I'll be able to sleep in my own bed and hunt from home, as it's my 'home range'.

    SS3, with proper bullet placement, I think you should be ok with the 7-08 and 140 grain partitions. If you can bring something a bit heavier, though, that you shoot equally well, I'd give that some consideration. As with just about anything else, bullet placement is key.

    Snake, if you're going with a 7RM, I would suggest at least a 160 grain, premium bullet.

    OK JBC, Like I told wild gene, I'm all ears here. I don't know jack about elk hunting. I will argue with the wall about deer rifles but I'm not a total fool, so I am going to look at some 160s. What do you think about 160 grain Speer Grandslams and/or Nosler Partitions?
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,420 Senior Member
    Dad-gummed enablers...

    No, I dislike recoil quite a bit, BUT perhaps with a mercury recoil reducer and a good pad in the stock...

    Ugh, my bank account is saying no... But between Air Assault Course this January and 29 days of Annual Training this summer that's a few G's... NO, ****!!!

    Truth be told, the only thing bigger than a .30-06 that I've fired is a .338 Lapua with a brake, once. Unless an M203 counts :jester:

    Seriously though, any new rifles will be on hold until I know for SURE I'm going on the hunt at all. Most of the money I earn will probably go into savings and to cover tag/expenses.

    I shoot nice guns and race fancy bikes, I really need a cheaper hobby...
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "It's far easier to start out learning to be precise and then speeding up, than it is having never "mastered" the weapon, and trying to be precise." - Dan C
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,857 Senior Member
    Dad-gummed enablers...

    No, I dislike recoil quite a bit, BUT perhaps with a mercury recoil reducer and a good pad in the stock...

    Ugh, my bank account is saying no... But between Air Assault Course this January and 29 days of Annual Training this summer that's a few G's... NO, ****!!!

    Truth be told, the only thing bigger than a .30-06 that I've fired is a .338 Lapua with a brake, once. Unless an M203 counts :jester:

    Seriously though, any new rifles will be on hold until I know for SURE I'm going on the hunt at all. Most of the money I earn will probably go into savings and to cover tag/expenses.

    I shoot nice guns and race fancy bikes, I really need a cheaper hobby...

    Hey SS3, if you're confused at this point, think about me! These same people told me the 7 mag would be more than adequate for elk, now they're drawing the low line at 30? Now I'm gettin dizzy here. Do I or do I not need to change the barrel on this thing to a 300 Win. Mag. to kill an elk?
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,952 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Hey SS3, if you're confused at this point, think about me! These same people told me the 7 mag would be more than adequate for elk, now they're drawing the low line at 30? Now I'm gettin dizzy here. Do I or do I not need to change the barrel on this thing to a 300 Win. Mag. to kill an elk?

    *I've* never hunted Elk, but gawd knows PLENTY of elk have been taken with the 7mm Mag. If I *were* hunting Elk, I wouldn't expect to be undergunned with the right bullets in 7mm Mag. Or .30-06, .308, etc.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,857 Senior Member
    Yeah Jeepers I'm just having fun with MHS and BP. But there were quite a few told me that the 7 Mag was good for elk, and I couldn't help but razz em a little. However, some day I will have a 30 Cal. Mag. of some sort.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,420 Senior Member
    Seems to me that a 7mm RM would do just fine on elk. Personally since I already have a 7mm-08 I think if I were to get a "bigger gun" that more of a step up would be in order to make it worthwhile for me personally... **** Jerm you've planted the .338 WM seed...
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "It's far easier to start out learning to be precise and then speeding up, than it is having never "mastered" the weapon, and trying to be precise." - Dan C
  • wildgenewildgene Senior Member Posts: 1,036 Senior Member
    ...the .300 WSM is a pretty good step up from a 7mm-08. If you are "recoil sensitive", you're not going to enjoy a .338, add enough "gimmicks" to make it "shootable", & yer surashellain't gonna wanna pack it around 8-10mi @ 10,00ft.el. I've killed over 3 doz. elk in 40yrs. of hunting them, most w/ 175 or 160gr. 7mm, a few w/ 165 or 180 .30's, a couple last year w/ 220gr. 8mm. Put a good bullet in the right place, they'll go down, a bad hit, don't matter what you shoot 'em w/, & you're gonna have problems. Seems like every other year I have to run down an elk someone's shot a leg off...
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,272 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Hey SS3, if you're confused at this point, think about me! These same people told me the 7 mag would be more than adequate for elk, now they're drawing the low line at 30? Now I'm gettin dizzy here. Do I or do I not need to change the barrel on this thing to a 300 Win. Mag. to kill an elk?
    Don't sweat it snake, there are probably more elk killed in Colorado with a 7mag than any other caliber. It is very popular amonst the elk hunters I have known.

    Sako
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,272 Senior Member
    SS3,
    if you are feeling underguned with the 7-08 don't worry about a new gun. You are welcome to use one of mine if you care to. I will bring a 7mmWSM and a 30-06 for sure and you can pick whichever feels best to you. I am sure others will have spares as well. Save your money.

    Sako
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,230 Senior Member
    You guys just aren't seeing my vision here!!! Ignore the whole .338 Win mag business for a second....

    If I went and said "Hey guys, how about he gets a .338 Federal or a .338 Marlin Express. They both have fairly mild recoil and are very adequate on elk out to 250 yards or so." You all would be thinking that it is a sensible suggestion and confronts the recoil issue responsibly. Correct?

    Now lets bring back the .338 WM... We can duplicate that .338 Fed/.338 ME performance and recoil in the Win mag. There is no need for a mercury reducer, nor should the relatively light loads be too much gun to handle. Worst case scenario is to install a brake which will bring full out .338 mag recoil down to 30/06 but we shouldn't have to go there at all.

    When I say that my 9 year old daughter can shoot my .460 S&W all day without recoil fatigue and BP's kids can do the same with his .458 Win mag, I mean it! With smart reloading, you can de-fang these guns to the point where they are very comfortable to shoot.

    My truck can pull 12,000 pounds fairly easy and has no problems going over 100 mph. That does not prevent me from driving 25 mph to the corner store and hauling just a gallon of milk.
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 4,526 Senior Member
    Jeeper wrote: »
    *I've* never hunted Elk, but gawd knows PLENTY of elk have been taken with the 7mm Mag. If I *were* hunting Elk, I wouldn't expect to be undergunned with the right bullets in 7mm Mag. Or .30-06, .308, etc.

    Luis

    I killed my first elk in 1958 with a 30-30, I have never seen an elk that I couldnt kill with a .270 , .280, or 30-06 with the proper bullet and shot placement. At present I use a .270 w/ 140gr. Hornadys or a 30-06 with 165 gr. Hornadys JMHO
    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,560 Senior Member
    To elaborate a bit more, personally, true elk rifles start at .30 and go up from there. Doesn't have to be a big tooth jarring magnum (though they are nice IF you shoot them well) but if ain't fast, at least make it big.
    338 fed/338-06, 35 whelen, 350 rem mag, 9.3x62....much better

    I have to disagree with you on that count, Dan. There's been a ton of elk taken cleanly with the 7mm Remington Magnum. Personally, I consider the .270 Winchester the bare minimum for elk, and the good Lord only knows how many have dropped to it.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,272 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    You guys just aren't seeing my vision here!!! Ignore the whole .338 Win mag business for a second....

    If I went and said "Hey guys, how about he gets a .338 Federal or a .338 Marlin Express. They both have fairly mild recoil and are very adequate on elk out to 250 yards or so." You all would be thinking that it is a sensible suggestion and confronts the recoil issue responsibly. Correct?

    Now lets bring back the .338 WM... We can duplicate that .338 Fed/.338 ME performance and recoil in the Win mag. There is no need for a mercury reducer, nor should the relatively light loads be too much gun to handle. Worst case scenario is to install a brake which will bring full out .338 mag recoil down to 30/06 but we shouldn't have to go there at all.

    When I say that my 9 year old daughter can shoot my .460 S&W all day without recoil fatigue and BP's kids can do the same with his .458 Win mag, I mean it! With smart reloading, you can de-fang these guns to the point where they are very comfortable to shoot.

    My truck can pull 12,000 pounds fairly easy and has no problems going over 100 mph. That does not prevent me from driving 25 mph to the corner store and hauling just a gallon of milk.

    Your approach to the problem is sensible and has merit. The problem as I see it is SS3 has expressed concern over the expense of a new rifle, let alone the optics and now the posssible addition of a brake. Then in order to down load from factory he would have to aquire reloading equipement, another expense.
    If he has a limited budget then he should use that money to get to Colorado for this event and use what ever rifle he finds at his disposal. Be it his 7-08 or a loaner. He has his whole life ahead of him to aquire bigger and better. Thats my opinion for what it's worth.

    Sako
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,560 Senior Member
    sakodude wrote: »
    Your approach to the problem is sensible and has merit. The problem as I see it is SS3 has expressed concern over the expense of a new rifle, let alone the optics and now the posssible addition of a brake. Then in order to down load from factory he would have to aquire reloading equipement, another expense.
    If he has a limited budget then he should use that money to get to Colorado for this event and use what ever rifle he finds at his disposal. Be it his 7-08 or a loaner. He has his whole life ahead of him to aquire bigger and better. Thats my opinion for what it's worth.

    Sako

    +1. Well stated, Tom.

    SS3, to answer your question about whether or not this would be a good hunt for you, I have given it some more thought and am not really sure how to answer it.

    What exactly do you want from a hunt? I made my first elk hunt when I was in my mid-30s, by myself, and out of a camp that consisted of two '3 man' tents. It snowed on me, I got all my gear wet, left a pair of new Reeboks somewhere on a mountain, was wet, cold and miserable for most of the hunt, had decided to pack it in early, but somehow managed to shoot a big cow. I even managed to do it with a .270. It was easily one of the most memorable hunts I've ever made in my entire life.

    I should also note that I only have to travel about 100 miles for the hunt, and paid about $30 for the tag. Financially speaking, I didn't have a lot at stake.

    So, to answer your question, go talk to the man in the mirror and ask him what you want from your first elk hunt. All I and others can do is tell you what to expect, and advise you on any questions you have.

    [edit]

    One last thing. If your major concern is whether or not you have enough gun, I'll lend you the use of my 7 mag.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
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