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Ukraine says Malaysian airliner shot down, 295 dead: agency

tennmiketennmike Senior MemberPosts: 27,457 Senior Member
Things are getting worse over there. If this keeps up then the :fan:
They aren't for sure that a SAM took it out, and reports are still coming in about the wreckage. But if it was a shoot down it's gonna get crazier over there.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/17/us-ukraine-crash-airplane-idUSKBN0FM1TU20140717

(Reuters) - A Malaysian airliner was shot down over eastern Ukraine by militants on Thursday, killing all 295 people aboard, a Ukrainian interior ministry official was quoted as saying by Interfax-Ukraine news agency.

The aircraft, which other sources said was a Boeing 777 flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, came down near the city of Donetsk, stronghold of pro-Russian rebels, Anton Gerashchenko said, adding that it was hit by a ground-to-air missile.

There was no further confirmation of the report, although Ukrainian officials said local residents had found wreckage.

Malaysia Airlines said on its Twitter feed it had lost contact with its flight MH-17 from Amsterdam. "The last known position was over Ukrainian airspace," it said.

Gerashchenko was quoted as saying: "A civilian airliner travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur has just been shot down by a Buk anti-aircraft system ... 280 passengers and 15 crew have been killed."

Interfax-Ukraine quoted another Ukrainian official as saying the plane disappeared from radar when it was flying at 10,000 metres (33,000 feet), a typical cruising altitude for airliners.
  I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
― Douglas Adams
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Replies

  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Preliminary reports indicate there were 20-something Americans onboard. Russia has reportedly supplied the rebels with a new high-altitude capable SAM system with a semi-autonomous tracking system capable of seeking out targets on its own. It's possible the ignorant thugs were shooting at a lower-altitude plane and the missile picked out a bigger, higher-altitude target.

    Edit: Wreckage and bodies scattered for several miles, indicating a breakup at high altitude!
    Jerry
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Just heard about the missile systems ability to pick its own target after firing. Things sure have gone crazy over there.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • PFDPFD Senior Member Posts: 1,493 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Preliminary reports indicate there were 20-something Americans onboard. Russia has reportedly supplied the rebels with a new high-altitude capable SAM system with a semi-autonomous tracking system capable of seeking out targets on its own. It's possible the ignorant thugs were shooting at a lower-altitude plane and the missile picked out a bigger, higher-altitude target.

    Edit: Wreckage and bodies scattered for several miles, indicating a breakup at high altitude!
    Jerry

    I was going to ask "Who has what to gain from this?" but, as sad as the story is, it may be a case of failing to observe one of the basic rules of firearm safety.

    Always be sure of your target and what is beyond.
    That's all I got.

    Paul
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    PFD wrote: »
    I was going to ask "Who has what to gain form [sic] this?" but, as sad as the story is, it may be a case of failing to observe one of the basic rules of firearm safety.

    Always be sure of your target and what is beyond.

    Agreed. Seems as though the plane was shot down by accident, as neither side has anything to gain by shooting down a civilian plane, let alone a full airliner not even scheduled to land in Ukraine at all. It's a case of "in harm's way" and awful.

    And nothing will come of it, either.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Lufthansa and other (International) airlines announced they wouldn't allow their plans to fly over that region anymore. USA has had a ban in for some weeks now because of the turmoil there. Only reason I can thunk of allowing it is sadly shortest route and fuel economy!

    That really sucked for fer the passengers and crew, can you imagine?

    :angel2::angel2: go out to their families.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Fat BillyFat Billy Senior Member Posts: 1,813 Senior Member
    Putin has stepped in it this time. Shooting or supplying, makes no difference. But Oblivit will do nothing once again. Next? :fan: Later,
    Fat Billy

    Recoil is how you know primer ignition is complete.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,132 Senior Member
    Malaysian Airlines is having a very bad year.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,658 Senior Member
    Currently they're saying "No American names" on the passenger manifest and the crew were all Malaysians.

    But in the grand scheme of things, I do believe the fit has hit the shan :fan:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    Currently they're saying "No American names" on the passenger manifest and the crew were all Malaysians.

    But in the grand scheme of things, I do believe the fit has hit the shan

    Only if something comes of it, which it won't. Putin has Obama by the short hairs and everyone knows it. Obama will huff and puff and draw yet another red line. Look at how harshly Syria was treated when it stepped over that line. Er... not at all.

    So those innocent civilians are toast, thanks to the Russians supplying that missile system to idiots.

    Nothing will be done. Maybe a few personal loss lawsuits which will fizzle in international courts.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,072 Senior Member
    I don't see much that can be done. The same thing that was done when the Russians shot down KAL 007 in 1983 or so. Condemnation, additional sanctions.

    According to information, 23 passengers held American passports.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,269 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    I don't see much that can be done. The same thing that was done when the Russians shot down KAL 007 in 1983 or so. Condemnation, additional sanctions.

    According to information, 23 passengers held American passports.


    Ukraine is getting good at it.......... 2-0

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    I don't see much that can be done. The same thing that was done when the Russians shot down KAL 007 in 1983 or so. Condemnation, additional sanctions.

    According to information, 23 passengers held American passports.

    Agree nothing much will be done.

    Latest reports are that there were phone conversations between Russian advisors and Ukraine rebels that verify the story: Russians gave these missile launchers to the rebels so they could shoot down Ukraine military planes, and the idiots shot down an airliner instead.

    But there will be zero consequences. Oh, wait... Joe Biden will condemn the act! Now THAT will get the Russians shivering in their boots, won't it?
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,072 Senior Member
    There will be consequences...the banning of imports from Russia will hurt Russia's economy. The US has sanctioned against several Russian banks, freezing assets. And of course banned Russian built arms for import.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • centermass556centermass556 Senior Member Posts: 3,534 Senior Member
    What was the flight number?
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    There will be consequences...the banning of imports from Russia will hurt Russia's economy. The US has sanctioned against several Russian banks, freezing assets. And of course banned Russian built arms for import.

    Have sanctions ever worked anywhere? Doesn't seem to be bothering Iran much, I can't imagine a country the size of Russia that also has the one thing everyone wants, oil, will be bothered either.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,132 Senior Member
    What was the flight number?
    MH17
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • centermass556centermass556 Senior Member Posts: 3,534 Senior Member
    It was more of an off color joke Jerm...

    This was actually a very bad deal. I really feel for the families. But I don't understand why the Airlines flew over the city. Supposedly a good prtion of the World's top AIDs/HIV researchers were on board. We can't afford to lose big brains doing work on disese and infections.
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    When I brought my wife who is a Philippine Citizen and was working in Malaysia as I was also working there, to the US to immigrate her, I chose to bring her into Houston. To do this, I had to take The flight from Kuala Lumpur to Amsterdam, then on into Houston. That was the shortest and cheapest way to bring her that route. Then, of course our return flight was this same one that was shot down. It was like 16 hours from KL to Amsterdam. Then another 10 hours on to Houston. So it was like a 26 hour flight total. Anyway, I felt a cold chill when I heard this Thursday. And to see Obama virtually sitting on his hands really pisses me. I'm wondering if there was anyone I knew on that plane.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    Have sanctions ever worked anywhere? Doesn't seem to be bothering Iran much, I can't imagine a country the size of Russia that also has the one thing everyone wants, oil, will be bothered either.

    But you forgot: John Kerry has "expressed concern." Wow! That will have those Russkies shaking in their boots! Putin beware!
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    They'd better not get Kerry mad at therm- - - - -he might wave the "Purple Owie" medals he awarded himself in Nam at them! No, wait- - - - -he threw them over the White House fence- - - - -or maybe he didn't!
    Jerry
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    They'd better not get Kerry mad at therm- - - - -he might wave the "Purple Owie" medals he awarded himself in Nam at them! No, wait- - - - -he threw them over the White House fence- - - - -or maybe he didn't!
    Jerry

    Kerry is the world's joke. And unfortunately he belongs to us. I love what my future son in law from Boston told me, hehehe! He says he was walking down the side walk in the section of town Kerry lives in and he looks up and it's long john himself walking toward him. He says he was tempted to ask, "Why the Long Face John?" hehehehe!!!
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Lufthansa and other (International) airlines announced they wouldn't allow their plans to fly over that region anymore. USA has had a ban in for some weeks now because of the turmoil there. Only reason I can thunk of allowing it is sadly shortest route and fuel economy!

    That really sucked for fer the passengers and crew, can you imagine?

    :angel2::angel2: go out to their families.

    Yeah having traveled on that very flight it's already long enough. 16 hours each way between KL and Amsterdam.

    And it must have been accidental, er... I mean I don't think either side wanted to shoot down a Malaysian plane. I don't know why Malaysia seems to be the target these days. They are one of the least threatening countries in the world. I lived and worked there for over 2 years and fell in love with the place. Well with everything except their driving. They're idiots behind the wheel.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 8,187 Senior Member
    Looks like an agreement has been reached to hand the bodies and the black boxes over...........

    https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/24515359/mh17-bodies-to-be-handed-over-to-netherlands-malaysia/

    Wonder how Potus is going to 'spin' this to show that he is still the leader of the free world?
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    orchidman wrote: »
    Looks like an agreement has been reached to hand the bodies and the black boxes over...........

    https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/24515359/mh17-bodies-to-be-handed-over-to-netherlands-malaysia/

    Wonder how Potus is going to 'spin' this to show that he is still the leader of the free world?

    If it were possible for Obama to talk a problem into submission, he'd be the world champ. Sadly, hot air just contributes to global climate change, and he's a major emission source.

    This whole mess has been beyond unacceptable. Should have just helped out the government over there and taken care of the rebels and militias keeping people off the crash site. That bunch of tards personifies barbarism. Helping wipe them out would be a public service.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    If it were possible for Obama to talk a problem into submission, he'd be the world champ. Sadly, hot air just contributes to global climate change, and he's a major emission source.

    This whole mess has been beyond unacceptable. Should have just helped out the government over there and taken care of the rebels and militias keeping people off the crash site. That bunch of tards personifies barbarism. Helping wipe them out would be a public service.

    This is what Obama does best. He is a silver tongue devil. In the presidential election debates he won hands down. Because people fall for BS and he's an expert at it. The biggest failure the U.S. has had is letting the left take over the education system. Now people get indoctrinated, not educated. A truly educated person won't fall for BS because he/she knows the facts, the truth if you will. You can no longer get a true education when it comes to the social sciences. It's all by design. When you indoctrinate the masses you can tell them anything and they'll believe it. Well that is until it's too late. And I fear it's only a matter of time for this country. As those of us that know the truth die off, the left gets stronger, and the silver tongue devils take over.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    Pity, this whole Ukraine ordeal. I wanted to visit Kiev one day.

    Condolences to the families.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    This is what Obama does best. He is a silver tongue devil. In the presidential election debates he won hands down. Because people fall for BS and he's an expert at it. The biggest failure the U.S. has had is letting the left take over the education system. Now people get indoctrinated, not educated. A truly educated person won't fall for BS because he/she knows the facts, the truth if you will. You can no longer get a true education when it comes to the social sciences. It's all by design. When you indoctrinate the masses you can tell them anything and they'll believe it. Well that is until it's too late. And I fear it's only a matter of time for this country. As those of us that know the truth die off, the left gets stronger, and the silver tongue devils take over.

    I'll add that not only to people fall for BS, but they prefer it to be fed to them. No one is willing to form their own opinion and ask, why, how, when, where? Etc.

    Just check out the Yahoo news article about the new USMC sidearm implementation.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • BarrydBarryd Member Posts: 198 Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    I'll add that not only to people fall for BS, but they prefer it to be fed to them. No one is willing to form their own opinion and ask, why, how, when, where? Etc.

    Just check out the Yahoo news article about the new USMC sidearm implementation.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk


    If people are depending on Yahoo for their news, they ain't getting news.
    Barry
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    Barryd wrote: »
    If people are depending on Yahoo for their news, they ain't getting news.

    But they are; and they do.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    Barryd wrote: »
    If people are depending on Yahoo for their news, they ain't getting news.

    An awful lot of younger people think of John Stewart as a news source too. We are really in a bad way.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
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