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Results of ballistic research on 'Big & Slow v 'Small & Fast'.

orchidmanorchidman Senior MemberPosts: 8,184 Senior Member
Disclaimer: I do not hold any qualifications as a scientist or a researcher...............however, the events of the past week have led me to certain inevitable conclusions.

Last weekend I had the opportunity to test the effectiveness of a 120gr Sierra psp on a live animal.
The subject was a rabbit, which happened to wander out in front of me at a range of approx. 30 yds. It was just on dusk, and the animal commenced to 'graze' on the edge of a disused 'gravelled' track. I figured that it was a good opportunity to carry out a simple test.

Accordingly I took aim at the broadside on animal and, using my T3 Lite 7mm08, I sent a 120gr .284 projectile in its general direction at approx. 3000fps. At the shot, the animal separated into 2 halves and was last seen flying in two different directions. Unfortunately it ( both pieces) landed some 15-20' away in thick underbrush and I was unable to retrieve them for a detailed post mortem.
I did note however that the projectile had struck the ground immediately beneath the test subject ( probably cos I didn't allow for the difference in height between the barrel and the scope. In effect the term 'Barked' sprang to mind although I guess the correct term would be 'gravelled' as there was no bark involved. )

However it would be safe to assume that death was instantaneous.

Meat recovery was nil.

Fast forward to yesterday.

While on patrol in the forest I saw a similar sized rabbit grazing in a similar situation. As I approached to within 30yds, something startled it and I hit it with a 26,530,000gr solid nosed projectile which was travelling at 45fps. ( My Jeep)

Death again was instantaneous however the impact of the larger projectile travelling at a much slower speed caused a lot less damage than the smaller faster projectile. The subject remained 'whole' and simply remained where it was hit.............although somehow it seemed to be larger and flatter.

The carcase was recovered, however due to time constraints I was unable to carry out a pm.

My first conclusion is that there was less meat damage with the larger projectile travelling slower. I would post up comparison pics for you to come to your own conclusions but as stated earlier, the first subject was not available to photograph, and the second subject was, shall we say, 'distorted'.

My second conclusion is that 'Big & Slow' means more 'meat' recovery.

( Some people may get upset at the choice of 'test' media, however rabbits are regarded as a pest here and cause millions of dollars worth of damage to our agricultural based economy)

I don't have time to post up more conclusions as its 'dinner time' and after dinner I will probably be conducting some research over the next 24hrs on the effects of curry and chili spiced beef stew on the intestinal tract of a 60 yr old '**** Sapien'....... and the alleviating effect of Port and 'Beer' on the resulting 'problems' experienced.
Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....

Replies

  • U TU T Member Posts: 423 Member
    Very interesting. Hopefully you can get photos of the effects of your chili, port, and beer research.
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    Get all the pictures you want, do not post them here.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    These are exactly the kinds of tests that benefit the 'lay' person - I mean, how many of us have enough scientific training to wade through all those ridiculous measurements and statistics.

    Keep up the good work!
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    Need more info. Were you pulling your boat with the Jeep? I read on the internet that a boat tail makes a big difference.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,862 Senior Member
    Good one George
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,646 Senior Member
    My "big and slow" moment dealt with an Iowa whitetail doe and a 525,000,000 grain (75,000lbs)Freightliner moving @ ~100fps just west of Des Moines on I-80

    Made a HUGE mess with no meat retrievable. (The fact that I knocked her into the other lane into the front bumper and later drive & trailer tandems of the flatbed I was passing didn't help) Truck behind me said it looked like a small pile of hamburger after being chewed up and spit out by TWO 18 wheelers)
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 8,184 Senior Member
    Need more info. Were you pulling your boat with the Jeep? I read on the internet that a boat tail makes a big difference.

    :spittingcoffee: :roll2:
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    Need more info. Were you pulling your boat with the Jeep? I read on the internet that a boat tail makes a big difference.

    You're good. :applause:
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,194 Senior Member
    No doubt you're now in the running for the No Bell Piece Prize.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    I have a question. Did the big and slow projectile have any effect on the animal in question as to tenderizing the meat? Old rabbits are kind of tough, and a tenderizing effect would be a good side benefit of the slow and heavy projectile.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 8,184 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    I have a question. Did the big and slow projectile have any effect on the animal in question as to tenderizing the meat? Old rabbits are kind of tough, and a tenderizing effect would be a good side benefit of the slow and heavy projectile.

    It was so tenderized that the only thing holding it together was its skin.............
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    orchidman wrote: »
    It was so tenderized that the only thing holding it together was its skin.............

    Sounds like a little too much tenderizing. Maybe a lighter projectile of, say, 15,000,000 grains would produce the desired tenderizing effect. Something like a Suzuki Sidekick, or something smaller like your quad.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    I got a wrecker call one night to recover an 18-wheeler that had "tenderized" a big doe a few miles from the shop. The deer had taken out several very necessary air brake lines under the rig and made all the emergency spring brakes apply, which stopped it in the middle of the highway. Crawling under that rig to manually "cage" several brake chambers so we could tow it back to the shop was a stinky, gory mess!
    Jerry
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    I got a wrecker call one night to recover an 18-wheeler that had "tenderized" a big doe a few miles from the shop. The deer had taken out several very necessary air brake lines under the rig and made all the emergency spring brakes apply, which stopped it in the middle of the highway. Crawling under that rig to manually "cage" several brake chambers so we could tow it back to the shop was a stinky, gory mess!
    Jerry

    I too did this test about 47 years ago with my fairly new at that time, 270 Win. with a 130 grain Remington Core Lokt bullet going approximately 3100 FPS. Yes, contrary to popular forum belief, 270s will kill rabbits. It blew the rabbit approximately 30 feet in the air, but I couldn't do a proper post mortem because all of the rabbit that I could find was the skin and head. I think the meat and bones were vaporized.

    Then for the slow and large projectile I used my 150,000,000 grain Chevy pick up truck. The results were very similar to yours. I believe the resulting remains would be referred to as a "ROAD PIZZA!" So no real findings or hypothesis could be drawn from my particular experiment for similar reasons to yours.

    A guy I went to school with did a similar experiment on an approximately 150 pound sow hog one night hitting it with an approximately 100,000,000 grain projectile in the form of an SS 396 1966 model Chevelle at a speed of approximately 125 miles per hour. This projectile expanded quite efficiently which as noted by his insurance company was a total wreck. There was said to have been hog body parts along the road for more than 200 yards.

    He had also shot several hogs on their ranch with his .30-06 with 180 grain Core Lokt bullets going approximately 2700 FPS. He claimed the Heavy and (Well Relatively)Slow projectile was much more efficient at killing the hog.

    But he wasn't satisfied with this heavy and slow so to replace the totaled out Chevelle, he bought a brand new 1968 Plymouth Road Runner with a 426 Hemi and a year or so later in the same general area (I believe it was on the Port O'Connor Hiway between Seadrift and Port O'Connor) hit another hog of approximately the same size going as fast or faster than before. I don't know what real findings we can draw from these tests other than Heavy and Slow (Well relatively slow compared to a bullet) Kills hogs with
    more flair than a 30-06, 270, 7-08 and such, but it gets kinda expensive and doesn't leave a lot of edible meat. I think, for hogs anyway, I'll stick to not quite so heavy and well not quite so relatively slow.

    BTW, I didn't do the math and I have no clue how many grains a 1966 Chevelle Super Sport with a 396 CI 360 HP engine and a Muncie 4 speed with 456 Positract rear end, or a similarly set up 1968 Plymouth Road Runner with a 426 CI 425 (Advertised) HP Hemi Engine weighs. I was just guessing. But whatever, that's a lot of energy for a hog or even an Elephant(Much Less a Rabbit) to absorb at 125-130 MPH.

    I think this may be a first on this forum. We now have an example of possible over kill, with too much energy in a projectile for the animal hunted (Never mind your killing a small doe with a 404 Jeffery Zee, it tain't even in the same ball park.). It didn't make the animals any more dead, but it probably made them dead quicker and destroyed almost 100% of the meat. I think I'll stick to my Guns.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
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