Arizona nine-year old in Uzi gun lesson accident

shush

'A nine year-old girl in the US has killed her shooting instructor by accident while being shown how to use a high-powered submachine gun.'


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-28948946

Bigslug

TrueTone911 wrote: »

I mean, why let a nine year old fire a full auto weapon?

We let them ride bicycles, skateboards, and play sports. Note that the only college sport that's never had an injury is smallbore.

A Mini Uzi or Uzi pistol with its insane rate of fire - I would agree with this. A standard Uzi at 600-700 RPM, on the other hand is not nearly so squirrely. The trick with newbies and full auto is to give them only 3-5 rounds in the mag at first. This way, if the gun climbs, it's empty before there's a problem. As this "disturbing" video clip had the "disturbing" part cut out, it's hard to say where the error was, but it looks like there wasn't much prior instruction on how to hold the thing.

Big Chief

Didn't a young boy kill himself a couple years ago shooting an SMG. I think let them fire maybe 4 or 5 rounds only loaded in the magazine with strict control by an adult. Maybe even semi-auto if a selector is on the gun. wait until they are older and have better muscle control and understanding of what they are firing.

Sad to hear this and it is another tragic accident.

pjames777

It seems instructor was on the left side with a right handed shooter .....should be behind or on the right to stop the gun from rising. According to a range spokesman that is where he should have been. Range changed rules, must be over 5ft. tall now to shoot full auto. Sadly too late for the gentleman and the little girl who's innocence was lost as well......nightmares!

Pelagic Kayaker

pjames777 wrote: »

It seems instructor was on the left side with a right handed shooter .....should be behind or on the right to stop the gun from rising. According to a range spokesman that is where he should have been. Range changed rules, must be over 5ft. tall now to shoot full auto. Sadly too late for the gentleman and the little girl who's innocence was lost as well......nightmares!

I have a better idea. How about we don't let little kids shoot full auto or even semi-auto until until they become proficient with single shot or bolt action firearms. This "instructor" was a moron for even attempting this. I seriously doubt the "instructor" title. Sounds more to me like a brother, uncle, or dads friend that had no business with firearms in the first place. Pathetic.

Pelagic Kayaker

Bigslug wrote: »

We let them ride bicycles, skateboards, and play sports. Note that the only college sport that's never had an injury is smallbore.

So a 9 year old kid shooting full auto and accidently killing their "instructor" is comparable to band-aids from riding a bicycle or skateboard? Come on.

pjames777

Pelagic Kayaker wrote: »

I have a better idea. How about we don't let little kids shoot full auto or even semi-auto until until they become proficient with single shot or bolt action firearms. This "instructor" was a moron for even attempting this. I seriously doubt the "instructor" title. Sounds more to me like a brother, uncle, or dads friend that had no business with firearms in the first place. Pathetic.

Nope he was a RSO it seems.

Pelagic Kayaker

pjames777 wrote: »

Nope he was a RSO it seems.

Yes, it seems so. What on earth was this guy thinking?

HvyMax

Rental ranges make their money on time and ammo. My daughter fired one at 7 but she had already been shooting for a few years at that point.

Jayhawker

When I was bird hunting with my young ones, I always started them with a single shot and then graduated them to a double. When my step-son started, his Grandpa bought him a Remington 1100 featherweight 20 gauge..which threw a wrench in my training regimen...took it out to the workshop and installed a full length plug...and he earned his way to a progressively shorter plug through demonstrating muzzle control and good gun safety...

samzhere

A tragedy for all concerned. And of course, more fodder for the rabid antis to seize on.

When I was about 5 or so, Dad let me shoot his 1911, but he loaded one round in the chamber and an empty magazine. Duh. Later, as I got better able to handle the big Colt, he'd load 2-3 rounds. One step at a time.

But no, there's a difference. Skateboards and bicycles can result in injury or death, but unlike firearms, they aren't lethal weapons by design.

A lot of this idiotic stuff is badly thought out -- "Hey, let's see if the kid can handle my 12 gauge, ha ha!" And of course, even if no danger results, kids can be easily turned off firearms by a bad first experience. Much better to start with a nice little .22LR bolt rifle.

Pelagic Kayaker

samzhere wrote: »

A tragedy for all concerned. And of course, more fodder for the rabid antis to seize on.

When I was about 5 or so, Dad let me shoot his 1911, but he loaded one round in the chamber and an empty magazine. Duh. Later, as I got better able to handle the big Colt, he'd load 2-3 rounds. One step at a time.

But no, there's a difference. Skateboards and bicycles can result in injury or death, but unlike firearms, they aren't lethal weapons by design.

A lot of this idiotic stuff is badly thought out -- "Hey, let's see if the kid can handle my 12 gauge, ha ha!" And of course, even if no danger results, kids can be easily turned off firearms by a bad first experience. Much better to start with a nice little .22LR bolt rifle.

You nailed it Sam.

Farm Boy Deuce

Pelagic Kayaker wrote: »

You nailed it Sam.

I didn't see anything in the video that said it was her first time shooting a gun. The article didn't say anything to that effect either.

horselips

samzhere wrote: »

A lot of this idiotic stuff is badly thought out -- "Hey, let's see if the kid can handle my 12 gauge, ha ha!"

Ha Ha indeed. Over half a century ago, in a galaxy far far away (NJ), on a visit to my grandparent's farm, while my Mom and Nanna were doing girl stuff, Dear Ol' Dad and I were looking over Pop-pop's gun collection and although I had only shot .22s before, I asked if I could shoot his gorgeous Parker side-by-side double. "Sure." We went outside, Pop-pop gave me a brief tutorial on how to hold and operate the shotgun and position myself, then loaded 2 rounds and handed me the gun. I was at the tender age of 8 and still a virgin. Naturally, I forgot everything he had just taught me, I pulled both triggers. After an all too brief flight, I landed on my behind, bruised, sore and laughing my head off. Been a gun freak ever since. For years and years afterward, every time Dear Ol' Dad introduced me to a new firearm, he retold me the story.

tennmike

There's actually a simple method to completely eliminate muzzle climb and that 'sweeping' from recoil. All it requires on the firearm is a sling swivel. Two web straps with clips are clipped to the sling swivel, and the other end of the straps are attached to the bench about three feet apart through sling swivels. Adjusting the length of the straps adapts the firearm to different height shooters. Muzzle can't rise, and the only way to 'sweep' with the muzzle is for the shooter to move left or right, and the instructor can keep that from happening.

The above system is nothing new. It's just old forgotten stuff from a long time ago.

samzhere

Farm Boy Deuce wrote: »

I didn't see anything in the video that said it was her first time shooting a gun. The article didn't say anything to that effect either.

Maybe not but I get the impression from the video that even if the girl had shot guns before, she certainly had very little experience. I'm guessing it was a "Hey, let her try it!" spur of the moment thing.

Amazingly, NBC news tonight had a very neutral coverage of the story. They showed how the instructor was apparently on the wrong side of the shooter, and showed video of kids shooting autos where the instructor was on the correct (right) side, and in one case, was carefully there, ready to prevent muzzle climb. Also how instructors have their hand on the shooter's shoulder to stabilize the kid, whereas the dead guy didn't have his hand in a place to prevent bad aiming by the kid. They also said that the NRA stated the guy wasn't an NRA certified instructor.

I about fell out of my chair, actually seeing neutral and unbiased coverage.

samzhere

horselips wrote: »

Ha Ha indeed. Over half a century ago, in a galaxy far far away (NJ), on a visit to my grandparent's farm etc.

Great story! When I shot Dad's 1911 I was of course rocked back but not as in the movies, and like you, I loved it!

But I'm guessing that many kids sadly get turned off by the experience of shooting a big gun and that's unfortunate.

Bigslug

Pelagic Kayaker wrote: »

So a 9 year old kid shooting full auto and accidently killing their "instructor" is comparable to band-aids from riding a bicycle or skateboard? Come on.

Probably the closest I've been to death - twice - has been on a bicycle. Were I parent, that inevitable milestone would scare me a lot more than early firearms training.

Is a machine gun the first thing I'd hand them? No. Were certain parties involved here suffering from some judgment call issues? Most likely. Would I be extremely selective about WHICH machine gun for the first experience? Absolutely. Do I automatically wet my pants at the notion of a supervised child learning how to PROPERLY run a full auto? Not even a dribble.

FYI, the RIGHT tool for that job - a nice, slow-RPM British STEN 9mm.

NRA

Very sad for all gun owners. The RSO, with as much respect to the dead as I can muster was a DA

Very sorry for all the children hurt by this negelgence.

Lots of people in three piece suits will grow rich over this in the next ten years.

Join The NRA To Support The 2nd Amendment & IDPA To Develop Shooting Skills

Pelagic Kayaker

Farm Boy Deuce wrote: »

I didn't see anything in the video that said it was her first time shooting a gun. The article didn't say anything to that effect either.

Irrelevant. The instructor is dead. Nine year old kids just don't have the experience, strength, maturity, nor the concept of the body mechanics needed for firing a fully automatic firearm ...PERIOD. It is obvious that the kid didn't know how to properly use it. This was just plain wreckless behavior on not just the instructor's part, but the dumb a** parents as well. Kids this age normally start on BB guns and single-shot 22s & 410s in addition to extensive firearm safety classes. Now this little girl has to live with this for the rest of her life. It just ain't worth it.
When kids are around 12 and up, and only when they have demonstrated firearm safety and proficiency pehaps then.

gator

When I taught kids to shoot they were not allowed a second safety mistake in a shooting session.

By that I mean if they did an unsafe act they weren't allowed to shoot anymore.

A bit harsh? maybe, but it taught them that gun safety is first and foremost.

Once my ex's oldest son was going to go dove hunting with me.....He picked up the shotgun that he was going to use and headed for the door without checking if it was loaded.......He was told to put the gun away and we would try it again tomorrow. The next day....and every time since when he picked up a gun he opened the action and looked.

DoctorWho

As an NRA certified Instructor, I saw adults I would not trust with full auto firearms, I would not be in a hurry to have 9 y/os fire full auto firearms.