Home› Main Category› Hunting
Question on hunting ethics...........
Been watching the tv series Kodiak...............mainly cos of the fantastic scenery and footage of animals (Bears, deer, Roosevelt Elk etc)
On the program last night ( I think it was the series end) it showed the old guys (guides) going out to shoot ducks.
Most of the shots they took were at ducks on the water.
Over here it is regarded as unethical to shoot birds on the water and we have laws specifically banning it.
Question I have is, is it against the law over there.................or is it left up to the individual hunters ethical sense ?
It seems to me that a program showing Hunting guides who profess to show respect for the game ( every time they kill a bear/deer, they give thanks in a small prayer as they kneel over the animal) that shows them later shooting birds on the water destroys their credibility.
My personal view is that if they cant hit birds on the wing, they shouldn't chase ducks!
Can someone enlighten me please ?
On the program last night ( I think it was the series end) it showed the old guys (guides) going out to shoot ducks.
Most of the shots they took were at ducks on the water.
Over here it is regarded as unethical to shoot birds on the water and we have laws specifically banning it.
Question I have is, is it against the law over there.................or is it left up to the individual hunters ethical sense ?
It seems to me that a program showing Hunting guides who profess to show respect for the game ( every time they kill a bear/deer, they give thanks in a small prayer as they kneel over the animal) that shows them later shooting birds on the water destroys their credibility.
My personal view is that if they cant hit birds on the wing, they shouldn't chase ducks!
Can someone enlighten me please ?
Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
Replies
Mike
N454casull
Thanks Mike.
It just seems to me that portraying the practice on TV doesn't do the sport any good and gives more 'ammo' to the anti-hunting brigade to use against us.
I don't hunt waterfowl much, but during trapping season last year I saw at least a dozen ducks and geese that were on the water that couldn't fly away because they were wounded. THAT seems unethical to me. I even posted a thread about it. I was told that losing waterfowl is very common.
Adam J. McCleod
Same with fishing. Snagging hooks, dip nets, fish wheels.........
I remember your thread and most of us blamed it on steel shot. But the reality is to many people take unethical shots, birds are to far away, "sky busting". Or they have poor shotgunning skills. But no one is perfect and they are moving targets after all.
That said, the only sitting duck I would shoot would be a cripple.
You should consider buying a license and stamps for your trapping excursions.
Don't forget the non-tox $$ ammo! It wouldn't be too painful to add the shotgun to the john boat. You know as soon as I spend the money I won't see any cripples on the water.
Adam J. McCleod
Yuck. I hadn't even considered that.
Adam J. McCleod
That being said....
In Great Britain they still legally use punt guns...
Here in KS it's illegal to shoot upland birds on the ground.and the practice of taking a "skillet shot" on a covey of quail is considered slobbish (unethical) behavior as well...
Oh I know, the doves are thick as fleas around here and the season opens the 6th. But I know as soon as I pull in the driveway with my license and HIP registration, they'll move off.
Correct me if I'm wrong but loaded ammo carries no haz mat fees. If that's the case I can send you a box of steel shot. I'll have to look and see what shot sizes I have. I wrote it off as an entertainment expense years ago so I can spare a little.
Edit: spot and stalk them. That's what I did as a kid before I had money for dekes and calls. Much less waders or a boat. And I don't mean cripples, we used that technique on perfectly healthy flocks of ducks and geese
I was thinking head shots. Like turkey hunting.
Adam J. McCleod
I think that all ammo is ORD because gunpowder. So restricted shipping. Thanks for the offer, but if I plan on shooting cripples, I'll spring for the expense. I don't want to "hunt" birds and trap. Too distracting.
Adam J. McCleod
I agree.
In the days when lead was permitted, I used to carry a handful of #8 lead shells in my pocket for dealing with cripples when shooting on open water. The smaller shot size wouldn't penetrate the body ( if any part of it was exposed) but would certainly penetrate the head due to the 'thinness' of the feathers. It lessened the amount of damage compared with using #4 lead shot to dispatch cripples.
As a side note to the whole 'shooting them on the water', my first shot at a live duck when I was a real young fella was under my fathers supervision..............a mallard drake landed in the decoys, he handed his 30" barrelled full choke SBS to me and let me 'water strafe' it.
After the deed was done he congratulated me on a good shot...............then told me that if I ever shot another unwounded bird on the water I wouldn't be able to sit down for a month. I think I was about 8 yrs old at the time.
He worked on the principal that if I was successful at my first attempt at duck shooting.............I would be interested for life...............He was right!
Good point.
Adam J. McCleod
Send it!
Adam J. McCleod
Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
A few years back I had a dove commit suicide from my gun. A three of us were walking out a cut milo field when a pair of birds flies down the length of our line. Bird number 1 is hit and goes down like a brick. Bird number 2 puts on the brakes and lands in a open spot caused by alkali. This bald spot was about 20 feet from where I was standing, so I pulled up and ended it for bird number 2. It was delicious.
Dad 5-31-13
It's not illegal but it is unethical. Well it's viewed as unethical by most real sportsmen. I cannot believe these idiots actually did this on camera, I don't care what the circumstances.
When I was very young, about 16-17, we used to shoot dove anyway we could, whether off the highlines or off a fence. we also used to jump shoot ducks off ponds. But I can remember by dad telling me once that that was no way to hunt. After he chewed on me a bit, it made me think. I haven't done anything like that since. Later on in life I taught hunter education for the state and this reinforced my ethical stance. My whole career, 15 years, teaching hunter ed classes I preached hard against such practices. Now I have the opportunity to instill a good ethical mindset in my grand kids. That I am doing and will continue. To me, shooting ducks off a pond is akin to poaching or road hunting. In my opinion it's criminal because when you take game like that you are stealing from the rest of us.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
Heck, I don't know what I said back then, but I never meant that YOU were unethical. I just did and still believe that some people don't need to be attempting shots like that because they aren't ready for that. I know there are several people on this forum talented enough to make such shots, guys like yourself, Ernie, Shooter, Pegasus, line finder and MHS to name a few, but there are plenty more of us here that aren't because we haven't honed our skills to that point. And I believe people that aren't talented enough to pull off a shot like that and that still make the attempt are guilty of being unethical. I'm still of that opinion. However, I don't feel that our forum members are of that persuasion. I think most everyone here knows his limitations and most everyone here is very ethical. Forums like this aren't exactly magnets for the average Joe Sixpack.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
These sumps were all over, and thick with the lush greenery that accompanies an area that is perpetually wet.
They were full of bullfrogs, and some even had catfish in them. They were a fantastic place to hunt dove and there always seemed to be a covey of quail close by. In the winter the ducks would use them as a stop over on their way south and some would even winter here.
We used to "sump jump" the ducks (mostly mallards and teal) by driving from sump to sump. We never would shoot them on the water because we didn't have a boat or a dog and no one wanted to go swimming in the cold. If one of us did drop one in the water we would have to throw rocks and dirt clods at it until it was close enough to reach with a pole with a fish hook tied to the end of it.
If the duck was dead it wasn't a problem but we had some interesting fights with the crippled ones.
-96 lbs
99% of birds I have shot have been on the fly, because it is so much more fun. But I eat what I kill, so if their numbers are few, and one lights in front of me, I probably won't pass on it...at least not for 'ethical' reasons.
22. Shooting of game not in flight prohibited
(1) Except as provided in subsection (1A), every person who shoots at or attempts to shoot at any game bird not in flight commits an offence against this Act and is liable to the penalty set out in section 67E(3).
(1A) No person commits an offence under subsection (1)—
(a) who shoots at or attempts to shoot at any game bird already wounded by shooting:
(b) where that person was acting in accordance with any authorisation under sections 53 or 54:
(c) where that person was acting in accordance with any notification given by the Minister.
(2) For the purposes of this section—
(a) a bird shall be deemed to be not in flight at any time when it is alighting on or rising from any water or land or any vegetation or structure in or on any water or on any land and any part of the bird is in contact with the water or land or vegetation or structure:
(b) subject to paragraph (a), a bird shall be deemed to be in flight at all times when it is airborne, including times when it is soaring or banking or swooping, and whether its wings are in motion or not.
Section 22(1): replaced, on 15 October 2000, by section 8 of the Wildlife (Penalties and Related Matters) Amendment Act 2000 (2000 No 43).
Section 22(1A): inserted, on 15 October 2000, by section 8 of the Wildlife (Penalties and Related Matters) Amendment Act 2000 (2000 No 43).
This is the penalty.............
A person convicted of an offence under any of the provisions listed in subsection (4) is liable,—
(a) in the case of an individual, to a fine not exceeding $5,000 plus a further fine not exceeding $100 for each head of game and egg of game in respect of which the offence is committed:
(b) in the case of a body corporate, to a fine not exceeding $10,000 plus a further fine not exceeding $200 for each head of game and egg of game in respect of which the offence is committed.
:that: fairly well my take on it also
The unwashed peasants fighting off starvation would take game by any means necessary. I suspect the notion of "aerial shots only" grew out of a way for the nobility to further distance themselves from the subjects with a show to convince themselves and everyone of their superiority.
There IS the safety issue of firing your birdshot only on an upward path. In crowded shooting areas, that may be the main reason for banning ground-sluicing.
I get the idea of shooting hours and hunting seasons for species management, and I get the development and display of skill, but as long as the hours and season are open, it makes zero difference to me how that bird gets in the pot. The only ethical kill is the clean kill IMHO. I think it only matters to the birds that they're being shot.
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
I tried to eat the duck I shot but was totally unprepared for cleaning it. It was awful. I understand the ducks that fly in from the grain states are great, but to me, they're fat and awful tasting.
I remember when Canada geese were a novelty here. I remember the first flock I saw in the Spring. Now they stay here all year and eat unspeakable things. I wouldn't eat one at gunpoint.
No silly a** prayer from me, ...just lots of pepper, butter, onions, garlic....
Idiots who "pray" over the animal they just blasted shouldn't be hunting. Nothing more than showing their egotistical side, especially when the camera's are rolling. Giving thanks my a**!