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C r u s a d e ! ! !

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  • samzheresamzhere Banned HoustonPosts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Ask the Chinese about Japs not wanting to slaughter civilians. Koreans love them to this day......................Japs in WWII were great Conquerors and loved by all...and ask American POWS who survived their kindness.

    Military targets were more important to them when they attacked Pearl....if they would have won the war, I'm sure their benevolence would have been more widespread.

    Jason, they were fanatical in combat for their Emperor who they had a cult-like devotion to.

    Much of that devotion was also shared by the Imperial family, the Emperor's son being the only negative voice. Hirohito himself was very pro-war and encouraged the god-like devotion as a way to boost morale. After the war strong consideration was given to charging him with war crimes but that was eventually negated by MacArthur and others because rebuilding Japan needed a cooperative people led by a cooperative Emperor. And the son, who was much less gung-ho, was the real boss in the family afterward, and he worked tirelessly to help with the recovery, often behind the scenes.

    The Japanese army was the major force, of course, still descending from the old warrior caste, the Samurai. The navy was different, formed only as a "modern" navy in the 18th century and mostly Western educated. They were loyal of course, but skeptical about possible victory.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    The air raids are a half measure that will accomplish nothing....

    My dad was Army Air Corp. Jerry's dad was Army Air Corp. Jerry was Airforce, so I'm not knocking the air war side at all, but we bombed Germany and Japan supposedly into ashes and they still fought on. We bombed North Vietnam and look who won in the end. All I'm saying is that no war will be won on Conventional air strikes alone. It will always take boots on the ground. The air war in all these conflicts did exactly what its practitioners wanted. It softened them up, it hurt them logistically, and gave our boots on the ground an easier target, but it still took the boots on the ground.

    What is it about these Libtards that they can read and comprehend the Communist Manifesto, but they can't read our own history? I don't get it.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member East TexasPosts: 10,815 Senior Member
    The Japanese weren't bent on genocide against those who disagreed with them - they were simply into conquest and subjugation. Sure, they would mistreat prisoners due to lack of respect for anyone who had surrendered, and they had plenty of atrocities, but they had no edict from the emperor or their religion to exterminate 'infidels.' For the most part, they simply had a lower regard for human life, in general, and just didn't care if their enemies lived or died, as long as they were defeated.
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    The first gulf war was pretty much over before there were boots on the ground. The Iraqi army could not surrender fast enough when the troops showed up. Not saying this will happen now but to say it's never happened...
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • bisleybisley Senior Member East TexasPosts: 10,815 Senior Member
    And they only cost ~$1M each!

    Hell, we spend that much for 18 holes, several times a week.
  • mohicanmohican Member Posts: 381 Member
    all US involvement in the Middle East is about Oil and Commerce, picking sides (Saudi Oil good, Russian pipeline across Syria bad) with "democracy", "freedom" and "religion" as cheap facades.

    "
  • centermass556centermass556 Senior Member Posts: 3,579 Senior Member
    mohican wrote: »
    all US involvement in the Middle East is about Oil and Commerce, picking sides (Saudi Oil good, Russian pipeline across Syria bad) with "democracy", "freedom" and "religion" as cheap facades.

    "

    Seriously? I get tired of this rhetoric. Until you can tell me something you have seen with your own eyes and how we conducted operations, stay in the corner and lick the windows.

    BTW, thanks for calling me and my comrades Mercenaries...
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • mohicanmohican Member Posts: 381 Member
    Get over yourself. And do not tell me what I can or can not say or type into a forum as it happens. Did I call you mercenary? Or impugned a mercenary? You seem a bit sensitive, and instead of offering an argument, or proof that you are doing Gods work or work in the best interest of the US you offer up a window licker comment. Weak Sauce, man.

    All it takes is a bit of "follow the money", or follow the power. The two are linked.
  • mohicanmohican Member Posts: 381 Member
    1. No matter how you want to put window dressing on it, if we are bombing in Syria, and especially without the leader of Syria's permission, then that is an act of war. Did Congress give an act of war?

    2. Is it a fact, or am I wrong in saying that Russia conducts oil business, pipelines, etc in Syria?

    3. U.S. officials are going to train "the good rebels" and not the "bad, fundamentalist" rebels in Syria and arm them? And we will totally leave Assad alone, after some (like McCain) pining for war with him for over a year?

    4. Just hypothetically - suppose in our zeal to get "the bad syrian rebels" the US military destroys Russian owned infrastructure. Suppose Putin retaliates? Has our mid East response been thought out this far?

    5. And a real dumb ass question - why can't we put this military effort on the U.S. - Mexico border? Something that offers a bit more payback and is more of a pressing issue?

    6. Syria is the what, ninth country the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize winner has dropped bombs on?

    7. In the Bush years, even at the Height of Iraq endeavors, our largest budget deficit was....500 billion dollars from 2009, with supposed draw down and "peace" our smallest budget deficits have been....500 billion dollars? Our GNP is around 14-15 trillion dollars (a trick, because it includes .gov financial activity) and our national debt is greater by several trillion dollars than what the nation earns on an annual basis. I know that we, the US did that briefly during the War between the States, and in WWII, but there were men with the principle to right the financial ship after those affairs were over.

    So no, I won't be quiet about this, or go lick the window in the corner, or give my blessing so that some will feel more comfortable about this. This is not a just war, or a necessary war. I share these views with my representative in congress, too. (for all the lack of good that does)

    Oh, and : http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-25/look-inside-secret-deal-saudi-arabia-unleashed-syrian-bombing
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,244 Senior Member
    mohican wrote: »
    1. No matter how you want to put window dressing on it, if we are bombing in Syria, and especially without the leader of Syria's permission, then that is an act of war. Did Congress give an act of war?

    They don't have to. The president retains the authority to strike targets in the interests of the US. Reagan did it, Bush SR did it, Clinton did it...

    Read and educate. Did you know that Congress didn't give consent for Korea either?

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/view_from_chicago/2014/09/war_against_isis_in_syria_obama_s_legal_and_political_justifications.html
  • mohicanmohican Member Posts: 381 Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    They don't have to. The president retains the authority to strike targets in the interests of the US. Reagan did it, Bush SR did it, Clinton did it...

    Read and educate. Did you know that Congress didn't give consent for Korea either?

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/view_from_chicago/2014/09/war_against_isis_in_syria_obama_s_legal_and_political_justifications.html

    I am aware of what they did. I don't have to go to Slate to form a justification or non justification. People really need to read the so called war powers act, also. And then realize that the War Powers Act is not an amendment. The Constitution was not amended, so anything that can be defined as an act of war, outside of immediate action to repel invaders or similar activity the power to declare war goes solely to congress. Oh wait, the Constitution is just window dressing so we might as well let Slate define our foreign policy.

    As far as congress didn't give authorization for Korea, that has turned out to be a 60 year stalemate? With continued resources? Is this what people wanted when they unchained themselves from the British empire?

    Ronnie did it. Bush Sr. Did it. Clinton did it. So any activity that is against our charter can be excused by precedent.
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,244 Senior Member
    mohican wrote: »

    Ronnie did it. Bush Sr. Did it. Clinton did it. So any activity that is against our charter can be excused by precedent.

    Pretty much although one could argue about the "against our charter" bit. Constitutional lawyers that are much smarter than you or I can't seem to find enough to prosecute so.....
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,583 Senior Member
    mohican wrote: »
    Get over yourself. And do not tell me what I can or can not say or type into a forum as it happens. Did I call you mercenary? Or impugned a mercenary? You seem a bit sensitive, and instead of offering an argument, or proof that you are doing Gods work or work in the best interest of the US you offer up a window licker comment. Weak Sauce, man.

    All it takes is a bit of "follow the money", or follow the power. The two are linked.

    How's your throwing arm feeling in that armchair?

    :roll:
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • mohicanmohican Member Posts: 381 Member
    people seem to have a bit of a problem with dissent? As far as throwing 70 yard out routes, no problem whether in a wheel chair or a recumbent bike.:jester:

    next up: Mohican is a hippie and an lefty... :jester:
  • centermass556centermass556 Senior Member Posts: 3,579 Senior Member
    Maybe you should dig deeper into why you feel this way. Seems to be striking a nerve and usually things don't hurt unless there's some truth to them.

    In a manner of speaking the US military has been used as a mercenary army by the elite in this country since WWII. Constantly being put in harms way to protect "American Interests". Like it or not those interests are almost always the wealth and power of the existing elites. The middle east matters, and ONLY matters because quasi-stability in the region is vital to ensuring stable global oil markets, and stable global oil markets are essential to a stable global economy. Without middle east oil the impact to global markets would make the great depression look like the roaring 20's. There have been far worse atrocities and nastier dictators all over Africa, but most of those countries have zero oil and little US business relationships so we don't waste American lives trying to fix or prevent them. To deny the central importance of oil in middle east politics requires willful ignorance. Maybe that helps you sleep better at night knowing how many of your comrades have given their lives in that sandy hell, but it doesn't make it any less true.

    Yeah it hits a chord when I constantly hear you slack jawed, yellow, hippies talking about something you didn't participate in or even know fully about. Yeah, I have resorted to name calling..Because that is about the level of discussion when someone brings this up. I have given my argument on several threads. I have been doing this for the past 18 years with eyes wide open. I have even admitted when things aren't on the level...Like Afghanistan. I still have no clue why are there.

    And, your post Alpha futher highlights my point on how you know nothing of what you talk about. Keep living in your glass bubble and never learn the truth. We have always had a presence in Africa. We have deployed large bodies of Soldiers of there...There is an entire Combined Joint Effort that has been there since about 2002ish. It is in HOA. In 2006 we stood up an entire AFRICA COMMAND with the soul purpose of partnership, advising, and rebuilding infrastructure in African countries...The execute literaly hundreds of missions a year there.

    But knowing all the information doesn't support your liberal agenda, so you ignore it. You are good at that.
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • centermass556centermass556 Senior Member Posts: 3,579 Senior Member
    Deflection!!???

    What is there in Afghanistan for us to Gain...and don't come with the Mineral and Gen wealth because that stuff is in regions and depth it is not currently cost effecient to get at.

    What oil did we gain from being in Iraq. Tell me. I wnat to hear it. Tell me how many operations revolved around securing and rebuilding oil infrastructure in Iraq. Tell me. Tell me why we stayed in the country for close to 6 more years after the the most promising oil fields were given to countries other than NATO and the US. Tell me.

    And where do you get off telling me when an American life is a loss.

    70 years of meddling in the Middle East? Go back and read your history books. America stayed out of the mess from the start. It was all British, French, and German choices and meddling that made those lines and choices.

    Tell me what friendly dictators we installed in the Middle east. Tell me...go ahead...You'll come up with one, tops.

    Yeah I'm fired up now...So American Troops have been Mercs since WWII? And when you say we went to war for oil that is what you imply....But we've been Mercs sine WWII?

    So the Berlin Airlift was for the Elite?

    The Korean War was for the Elite?..too prevent the spread of Communism? Though I will admit it was a proxy war with China and russia.

    Formosa was for the Elite?

    Vietnam was for the Elite? Again to stop communism...As we saw it spreading across the globe...Go ahead deny that it made it to Cuba and Central America.

    Cuba was for the Elite?

    The COngo in the mid 60s was for the Elite...Oh but wait, we don't support African countries because there is no war there...

    Hait and the DR...That was the Elite?

    Operation Nickel Grass? Yeah, got protect those Rich Jews in Israel...

    Zaire in '78...Crap not Africa again. But there is no Oil there? Must have been Diamonds...thats it.

    Brightstar...Africa again...But it was for the Elite? Rich folks on the Nile

    Grenada? Protecting the Elite's kids?

    Honduras? Oh the Elite vacation spot

    Chad in '83....Wow, another African operation, still hasn't brought down the price of diamonds.

    Panama? another elite vacation zone?

    All of Central and most of South America...for the war on drugs..Didn't get far, but it did drive up the price of coke for the elite.

    The Philippines...The elite again? Vacation spot?

    Liberia in '90....Still after African Diamonds...

    Back to Ziare in '91

    Sierre Leon in '92

    Bosnia, Kosovo, Croatia...Yup that was for the elite upper class of NATO.

    Somalia. Didn't get the Diamonds then either.

    Haiti again...


    I doubt you caught my Sarcasm...But you have to be the most blind and or ignorant person I know when it comes to talking about foriegn interest and policy. You have no idea what and where we have been around the world...To help and protect freedom, democracy, and tangible American interests around the World. All you can do is repeat your Party line Jargon and what you read in a paper here and there. All of the Operations I listed are and were public Knowledge. but again they don't support your agenda..

    You and Mohican should both just stick to eating Chipotle and licking windows.
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Dellrose TNPosts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Some folks carry the sword of freedom and use it honorably. Others sit back and criticize, or hide under the bed and suck their thumbs, secure in the knowledge their sorry butts will be protected by the very people they denigrate. They're unworthy of the blood of a single American patriot! May the fleas of a thousand camels infest their groin area!
    Jerry
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Under a logPosts: 27,457 Senior Member
    That's some first class deflection right there.

    Very simple questions:

    If there was no oil in the middle east how many fewer American lives would have been lost in that sandy hell hole? If we hadn't have spent 70 years meddling in their affairs and installing friendly dictators who would keep the oil flowing, how many Muslims would still want to "kill us for our freedom"?

    It must be hell going through life with severe astigmatism in one eye and a patch over the other. Lets take a trip down memory lane. After the end of WWII, two superpowers emerged; the US and the USSR. The USSR was busy gobbling up its neighbors, and then started wreaking havoc in the Middle East and the African continent. We countered with trying to stabilize the situation. This continued throughout the Cold War, and is still continuing.

    I saw first hand the attempts of the USSR in the entire Mediterranean, on the North and South coasts to turn the people to the USSRs brand of communism. They had some major and minor successes on both coasts. Egypt, Libya, Greece, Sudan, Iraq, Turkey, and Iran, to name a few. They stirred up trouble in Italy, too. They failed miserably in Afghanistan.

    If you think that it's a freakin' furball mess now, you have no idea how bad it would be if we pulled out completely from the region. We propped up a few 'useful idiots' in the region to help stabilize the situation.

    A slight detour: Remember Benghazi? We used to have TWO carrier groups in the Med at all times, one in the Eastern Med, and one in the Western Med. When Bengazi happened, we had NO CARRIER GROUP in the Med at all.
    If we'd had just one in the Med when Benghazi happened, I'd bet that the outcome would have been vastly different, assuming that the President had the stones to let slip the dogs of war from the carrier deck. And the Russians are building and modernizing their Black Sea fleet to fill the vacuum we created. And our Navy is conspicuous by its absence.

    Having two carrier groups in the Med, and even one, tended to keep the natives a little less restless. But if you think that having Russia in charge of both the Mediterranean and the Persian Gulf is a good idea, well, you haven't even dreamed of the global meltdown that would result. We are there, and yes, we keep the oil flowing. A Russian takeover would result in WWIII when the oil stopped flowing to certain actors who use a lot of Mid East oil. And that would re-institute the draft, and you'd be highly eligible. Iran tried once to stop the flow, and got a gentle slap across their chops for their trouble. If we hadn't been there, Iran would have found itself set on by wolves with long knives. Sometimes, I think we should have let the long knives take care of them; it would be less problematic now.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Tampa, FL areaPosts: 2,954 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    The Japanese of WW2 and ISIS only have in common a radical zeal. And ISIS trumps them in spades with that, even. Further, the Japanese did not want to slaughter civilians. If they wanted to do that, they would have bombed Honolulu, not Pearl Harbor.

    ISIS is formed from the most dangerous of beliefs: religion. The ideology of Axis powers in WW2 came primarily from a radical political ideology, not a religious one. For a political ideology to proliferate, there needs to be one man who can pronounce and convince others to follow him and that figurehead needs to remain alive to keep the zeal strong. Not with religious radicals.

    ISIS operates on a religious concept and religious radicalism only requires that a pawn be convinced that the religion justifies the actions and it is self-propagating from that point on AND allows the radicals to operate completely independently of orders from any one man because his orders are divine and universal.

    Eradication of ISIS means the eradication of the entire Islamic faith.

    EXACTLY. Either eradication, or the pursuit of such in such a manner that they change their viewpoint entirely, JUST LIKE JAPAN DID.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Manistee Natl ForestPosts: 18,291 Senior Member
    25oGhax_zps0dcc9278.jpg
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Ya don't say! Some goat humping country we are "allies" with tipped off other goat humpers? Next you're gonna tell me the pope is catholic!

    You don't mean it! I coulda swore I saw him coming out of the First Baptist Church here last Sunday!


    :rotflmao:
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • mohicanmohican Member Posts: 381 Member

    I doubt you caught my Sarcasm...But you have to be the most blind and or ignorant person I know when it comes to talking about foriegn interest and policy. You have no idea what and where we have been around the world...To help and protect freedom, democracy, and tangible American interests around the World. All you can do is repeat your Party line Jargon and what you read in a paper here and there. All of the Operations I listed are and were public Knowledge. but again they don't support your agenda..

    You and Mohican should both just stick to eating Chipotle and licking windows.

    oooh, the window licking bit again.

    Why would we want to promote democracy? And is pure democracy juxtaposed with freedom? (a very large number of the founding fathers hated democracy) Defending Freedom, Democracy and US Trade world wide - Two out of three of those don't have a place.

    Defending our trade and commerce is a valid endeavor. What trade and commerce do we have in Syria that requires bombing this group but training/arming that group?

    Regardless of the names you call me, I want you to know that I have close friends in the military, and they know where I stand (non would think of me as pacifist, either) If you go, I'll pray for your safe return. I just do not agree with this "mission".
  • centermass556centermass556 Senior Member Posts: 3,579 Senior Member
    mohican wrote: »
    oooh, the window licking bit again.

    Why would we want to promote democracy? And is pure democracy juxtaposed with freedom? (a very large number of the founding fathers hated democracy) Defending Freedom, Democracy and US Trade world wide - Two out of three of those don't have a place.

    Defending our trade and commerce is a valid endeavor. What trade and commerce do we have in Syria that requires bombing this group but training/arming that group?

    Regardless of the names you call me, I want you to know that I have close friends in the military, and they know where I stand (non would think of me as pacifist, either) If you go, I'll pray for your safe return. I just do not agree with this "mission".


    [response] something you wont agree with [/response]
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,583 Senior Member
    mohican wrote: »
    Why would we want to promote democracy? And is pure democracy juxtaposed with freedom? (a very large number of the founding fathers hated democracy) Defending Freedom, Democracy and US Trade world wide - Two out of three of those don't have a place.

    Gonna tell me next that southern Democrats weren't slave owners, too?

    Why do liberals always try and drag nonsensical rhetoric of alleged political positions of founding fathers into a debate when it's irrelevant to the subject matter?

    And two... Do you even know what the mission is in Syria? Or do you just not agree with the mission you THINK it is?
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • mohicanmohican Member Posts: 381 Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    Gonna tell me next that southern Democrats weren't slave owners, too?

    Why do liberals always try and drag nonsensical rhetoric of alleged political positions of founding fathers into a debate when it's irrelevant to the subject matter?

    And two... Do you even know what the mission is in Syria? Or do you just not agree with the mission you THINK it is?

    This is not a very intellectual response, Jason. And if it is meant to be cutting, you have missed the mark.
    Because I'm not in favor of some action in Syria, I'm a democrat voter? :roll:

    Do you know what the mission in Syria is? As a policeman, has Homeland Security stopped by with the Obama Administrations position?

    How would you know if I am liberal, conservative, libertarian, or just plain clear thinking and perhaps by this time politically agnostic?

    Perhaps how Jefferson (a founding father, for your information) dealt with Islam and it's practitioners would be instructive, and save ourselves lives, wounded military people that we seem to be unable to take care of, and money that we have to borrow or print to fund this endeavor.

    If we equate "Conservative" to "free market", then the Constitutional method to deal with non state enemies (ISIS/ISIL/whatever new name or Acronym) would be a free market solution that we love to bandy about - issuing letters of Marque and Reprisal.

    Another point which seems lost on you - the Main Stream media in the main is chearleading this action. So the Liberals/Progressives who hated Guantanamo, hated Waterboarding, etc in the press are now the biggest boosters of bombing inside a Sovereign Nation without consulting it's leader (Assad). So if CNN or MSNBC takes a negative view on guns after Sandy Hook, they are liars, but if it's war they have to be telling the truth, and they are suddenly on the side of angels?
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Between Ft Lauderdale and MiamiPosts: 12,564 Senior Member
    WOW try re-reading what you just wrote.
    As for Syria's thoughts on ISIS. they want/desire/need our help. Have asked for it for years not months now. Thing is the current administration has ignored it and is now trying to blame the INTEL folks under him.

    Syria’s deputy foreign minister blasted President Barack Obama’s comments that U.S. officials were caught off guard by the dramatic rise of terror group ISIS, saying that Syria has been warning about the group for more than three years. In an interview with NBC News’ Ann Curry, Faisal Mekdad also said the Bashar Assad government would welcome “any cooperation against terrorism,” including the possibility of ground forces.

    “Syria has said three years ago, if not more, from the beginning we have warned the international public opinion that these are terrorists. And the only way to deal with them is to defeat them.” Mekdad said of the Islamist militants group's rapid gains in Iraq and Syria. “[The U.S.] should never have been surprised.”

    “We were giving information [to the U.S.],” Mekdad said. “This was what President Assad has said in his speeches since the beginning of these developments. And this is what we were saying to all those people who visited Syria, or who communicated with us secretly and openly.”

    Obama made the comments in an interview on CBS's “60 minutes” that aired Sunday that U.S. intelligence officials “underestimated what had been taking place in Syria.” And while the U.S. and Arab allies have begun conducting airstrikes against ISIS within Syria, the president said that stabilizing the country couldn’t happen under the current Assad regime, which he accused of “committing horrific crimes against his own people.”

    Mekdad said that airstrikes had not been very effective because ISIS fighters can blend with the population. Asked about comments from some, including U.S. House Speaker John Boehner, that ground troops may have to be sent in to fight ISIS, Mekdad said, “any cooperation against terrorism is going to be welcome,” but that any deployment of ground troops had to be done in accordance with international law and in cooperation with Syria.

    “I think it will be a big mistake not to conduct this together with the Syrian government,” he said. Turkey’s president recently said that the country could send ground forces into Syria under certain conditions, like to support a internationally-backed safe zone for refugees. Mekdad accused Turkey of funding and supporting ISIS, he said the Assad government doesn't trust Turkey, and warned that if Turkey sent ground forces into Syria it would start “a war that will never end.”

    He criticized Obama’s statements that it could fight ISIS while also calling for an end to the Assad regime.

    “Because the alternative to President Assad is the ISIS,” he said. “Whether they want to admit it or not”
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • centermass556centermass556 Senior Member Posts: 3,579 Senior Member
    Do you guys remember when I talked about the long memories of the folks in SWA and SEA? The Syrian Resistance to Turkish support highlights that. There is no way the Syrians are going to let ottomans back into their yard.
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,583 Senior Member
    mohican wrote: »
    This is not a very intellectual response, Jason. And if it is meant to be cutting, you have missed the mark.
    Because I'm not in favor of some action in Syria, I'm a democrat voter? :roll:

    Do you know what the mission in Syria is? As a policeman, has Homeland Security stopped by with the Obama Administrations position?

    How would you know if I am liberal, conservative, libertarian, or just plain clear thinking and perhaps by this time politically agnostic?

    Perhaps how Jefferson (a founding father, for your information) dealt with Islam and it's practitioners would be instructive, and save ourselves lives, wounded military people that we seem to be unable to take care of, and money that we have to borrow or print to fund this endeavor.

    If we equate "Conservative" to "free market", then the Constitutional method to deal with non state enemies (ISIS/ISIL/whatever new name or Acronym) would be a free market solution that we love to bandy about - issuing letters of Marque and Reprisal.

    Another point which seems lost on you - the Main Stream media in the main is chearleading this action. So the Liberals/Progressives who hated Guantanamo, hated Waterboarding, etc in the press are now the biggest boosters of bombing inside a Sovereign Nation without consulting it's leader (Assad). So if CNN or MSNBC takes a negative view on guns after Sandy Hook, they are liars, but if it's war they have to be telling the truth, and they are suddenly on the side of angels?

    I do not know what our mission is--never said I did. I'm lost on the actual political reason for doing it as the next guy, but I'll at least admit it. On top of that I will actually listen to people who have face to face experience with points of view FAR closer to ground zero observations than I have. Constant suppositions aren't worth a damn if you aren't willing to integrate opposing viewpoints in to your mental digestion of the whole matter. Unilateral thinking is plainly arrogant and foolhardy.

    Two, I do not watch the MSM. I have no use for MSNBC, CNN, etc. So, sorry to burst the bubble of hope you had that I just swallow canned propaganda from Chris Hayes and Anderson Cooper. Next.

    I'd like to know how you came to the arrogant, ignorant, and condescending ASSUMPTION that the mainstream media "cheerleading" is lost on me? Another shred of evidence you are a liberal (or at least left of center): you're telling me what I think.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,583 Senior Member
    mohican wrote: »
    Perhaps how Jefferson (a founding father, for your information)...

    This ass-ery right here is why I can't stand talking to leftists. This is the mouth flapping of a condescending prick.

    MAYBE if you stopped using crap like this to boost your self-proclaimed intellectual prowess you may not be met with such contempt.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • mohicanmohican Member Posts: 381 Member
    So you can't refute my points...but because you think I told you how to think I must be a liberal.....You have made numerous silly suppositions that were not born out of anything I posted.

    I can gather what the "official" mission is based on what the president and his minions say to the media. I can weigh that against other things. If I personally look at what is offered as a "mission", or as a pretext for military action I find the reasons wanting.
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