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Thinning the herd

SlanteyedshootistSlanteyedshootist Senior MemberCorvallis, OregonPosts: 3,947 Senior Member
I guess the next step is gas chambers designed to look like showers.

http://thefederalist.com/2014/09/23/zeke-emanuel-wants-you-to-die-at-75/
The answer to 1984 is 1776
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Replies

  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Miami, FL almost in the USA ;)Posts: 6,992 Senior Member
    Seems like this guy wants one particular old person to die! I do think a legitimate discussion can be had about how much of our socialized medical care (medicare specifically) should go to individuals above a certain age or level of health, especially with a major boom in the number of people reliant on that care over the next 2 decades. It is by no means an easy or straight forward discussion and this article (or the article he's writing about) don't come close to trying to address them. The fundamental issue is that our technical ability to provide healthcare and extend life currently exceeds the funds available to pay for all such care that will be needed. Triage will happen, it's just really uncomfortable to talk about, so we don't.

    Yes, the young deserve to live so much more than the old..... That discussion will go nowhere.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • SlanteyedshootistSlanteyedshootist Senior Member Corvallis, OregonPosts: 3,947 Senior Member
    I guess Japan had better hop on Emanuel's boat pretty quick.

    http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/People/Elderly-population/Elderly-Population-by-region/Percentage-of-elderly-population-by-country

    Growing up in Hawaii, we were taught to revere, respect and care for the elderly. I love to listen to older folks tell stories about their lives and experiences. I learned so much about motorcycle mechaniking (Is that even a word?) from my older friends like Honduke and Uncle John. They were passing on arcane knowledge that helped me do a better job. They've both passed on now but I try to impart my knowledge and experience to some younger friends.
    The answer to 1984 is 1776
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    I guess the next step is gas chambers designed to look like showers.

    http://thefederalist.com/2014/09/23/zeke-emanuel-wants-you-to-die-at-75/

    This is what happens when we take the existence of a supreme being, God, out of the equation. Then there is nothing to govern us, we are like the animals. Without God all obligations and oaths are a farce. Without God no government can be depended on not to enslave you. God has been the center of the universe for like ever. Now we allow him to be removed from our life processes and people wonder why things go to hell?

    People like Emanuel have no god in their lives to rule and govern them. They think THEY are God. So they naturally come up with Godless solutions to everything, Just as the Nazis did.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • SlanteyedshootistSlanteyedshootist Senior Member Corvallis, OregonPosts: 3,947 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    This is what happens when we take the existence of a supreme being, God, out of the equation. Then there is nothing to govern us, we are like the animals. Without God all obligations and oaths are a farce. Without God no government can be depended on not to enslave you. God has been the center of the universe for like ever. Now we allow him to be removed from our life processes and people wonder why things go to hell?

    Per this guy Emanuel, God's too old and useless and needs to be euthanized.
    The answer to 1984 is 1776
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,244 Senior Member
    Seems like this guy wants one particular old person to die! I do think a legitimate discussion can be had about how much of our socialized medical care (medicare specifically) should go to individuals above a certain age or level of health, especially with a major boom in the number of people reliant on that care over the next 2 decades. It is by no means an easy or straight forward discussion and this article (or the article he's writing about) don't come close to trying to address them. The fundamental issue is that our technical ability to provide healthcare and extend life currently exceeds the funds available to pay for all such care that will be needed. Triage will happen, it's just really uncomfortable to talk about, so we don't.
    And therein lies the peril of having someone else foot the bill for your own healthcare. Are you comfortable with some board deciding that they've spent enough money on your mother, or on you, and that it's best if you just go ahead and die?

    If I'm paying for my own, you have no say in how long I choose to try to run out the clock. I can't believe that some people are callous enough to think that a system where health care is "free" (not free) and therefore subject to the scrutiny of bean counters is a better system.

    I long for a system where doctors and patients interact on a more personal level but I guess that bird has flown the coop, long ago.
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    And therein lies the peril of having someone else foot the bill for your own healthcare. Are you comfortable with some board deciding that they've spent enough money on your mother, or on you, and that it's best if you just go ahead and die?

    If I'm paying for my own, you have no say in how long I choose to try to run out the clock. I can't believe that some people are callous enough to think that a system where health care is "free" (not free) and therefore subject to the scrutiny of bean counters is a better system.

    I long for a system where doctors and patients interact on a more personal level but I guess that bird has flown the coop, long ago.

    I think you're fooling yourself if you think your insurance co. is going to write endless checks to keep you going. Sombody always decides who lives and dies.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,244 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    I think you're fooling yourself if you think your insurance co. is going to write endless checks to keep you going. Sombody always decides who lives and dies.
    You want the govt doing that? I know the insurance does it but I am paying them directly. I can also choose to pay doctors out of pocket.

    That goes out the window when it's all govt owns it all.
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    Not sure what the lesser of the two evils is but no I'd rather the greedy ins company instead of the bungling gov't be the death panel.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member crusted in sandPosts: 5,797 Senior Member
    All part of the discussion, but medicare has been the default coverage for old folks for nearly 50 years so it's nothing new. What is new is the number of old folks we're going to be footing the bill for, and the amount of medical technology that we can apply to keeping people alive. When footing your own bill the questions become easier, but not that much easier. What about people who can't pay (which honestly is probably most of them)? In general most retired folks are on a fixed income or working with a fixed pool of retirement resources that they need to make last. Many would likely be faced with questions of pay up and live, but have no more money to eat with or not pay and die. As a grandparent in your 80's would you chose to die and leave something to your grandchildren or do you try to hold onto every last second you can regardless of the cost? The purpose of insurance is to try an avoid forcing families/individuals to make these kinds of decisions, but maybe we should try to think about them.


    You sound like you want your grandparents or parents to die soon and leave you some inheritance before it's all consumed by medical care. How noble of you. I choose to leave my children or grandchildren a work ethic that they can use to earn their own way. I believe in helping a child with an education if possible but I don't feel obliged to leave any gifts. I've told my parents for years to take vacations and spend their money. They're the ones that worked their butts off all their lives to earn it. And they paid taxes on every penny of it and just because the government mismanaged the money doesn't let them off the hook on providing my parent's healthcare.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Between Ft Lauderdale and MiamiPosts: 12,556 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    You sound like you want your grandparents or parents to die soon and leave you some inheritance before it's all consumed by medical care. How noble of you. I choose to leave my children or grandchildren a work ethic that they can use to earn their own way. I believe in helping a child with an education if possible but I don't feel obliged to leave any gifts. I've told my parents for years to take vacations and spend their money. They're the ones that worked their butts off all their lives to earn it. And they paid taxes on every penny of it and just because the government mismanaged the money doesn't let them off the hook on providing my parent's healthcare.

    and that is the big part of it. People have paid taxes for their entire life, that money was supposed to be invested by our government so that money was available to pay for their healthcare and such in the future. not borrowed from and the pot filled with empty IOUs that nobody ever planned to pay back. our government has screwed up everything that we have let them touch over the years, i for one certainly do not want them having and say over my future care.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Miami, FL almost in the USA ;)Posts: 6,992 Senior Member
    This goes to if it is medically possible, should you try it? Growing your own clone to harvest organs is possible, should we? Should we pay for it?

    What about transplants? who gets the heart? liver? kidney? Those kinds of decisions are made every day based on need and position in the list of recipients. Alcoholics who are not compliant don't get a liver.

    It is a hard set of decisions that I don't need to make.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • samzheresamzhere Banned HoustonPosts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    You want the govt doing that? I know the insurance does it but I am paying them directly. I can also choose to pay doctors out of pocket.

    That goes out the window when it's all govt owns it all.

    Paying doctors out of your own pocket is one thing. Try doing that for open heart surgery or extensive cancer treatment. Unless you got a few hundred grand tucked away under the mattress, you gotta depend on either insurance or medicare or whatever.

    But the key to this all is the difference between quality of life vs quantity. If people are pessimistic and have nothing else but their material life to base judgment upon, they will try to stay alive regardless of the cost of the type of "life" afforded, regardless the cost, too.

    If the focus is on quality of life and the outlook (as was said) is based on religious faith (at least in part) then hanging on by a thread is simply a waste of time. Of course that decision needs to be made by the individual but sometimes that person isn't able to decide such, and then loving relatives have to do that difficult decision.

    Which is why I've made it VERY clear to all my family and loved ones, my physician, and my priest, and also have set forth in a living will, that I do not want to be kept alive "just because" -- hey, pull the plug, guys.

    Questions that are helpful to ask include "When will he be able to take care of himself generally?" "When will he be able to dress, feed, and bathe himself with only minimal assistance and only occasionally?" "When will he be able to return to a self-sufficient life?"

    Things like that are essential. I know this because I've faced this with members of my family who were terminally ill and also have faced it for myself.

    Making harsh and difficult plans and getting it all in writing is important, hard as it may be to face.
  • NNNN Senior Member NCPosts: 25,221 Senior Member
    I my not produce goods or services for the economy; but, I am a consumer of goods and services which by default gives
    younger people a job to produce goods and services and be paid so that can buy goods and services.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Under a logPosts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Going back a few years to a quote from a politician, of all people. But it kind of says it all.

    "The moral test of a government is how it treats those who are at the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the aged; and those who are in the shadow of life, the sick and the needy, and the handicapped." - Hubert Humphrey

    The only thing I will add to that quote, is that the younger generation always wants the older generation to just get out of the way, or better, just go away. The general fault with this is that the younger generation fails to realize that in time, they too will be old.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,309 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Paying doctors out of your own pocket is one thing. Try doing that for open heart surgery or extensive cancer treatment. Unless you got a few hundred grand tucked away under the mattress, you gotta depend on either insurance or medicare or whatever.

    But the key to this all is the difference between quality of life vs quantity. If people are pessimistic and have nothing else but their material life to base judgment upon, they will try to stay alive regardless of the cost of the type of "life" afforded, regardless the cost, too.

    If the focus is on quality of life and the outlook (as was said) is based on religious faith (at least in part) then hanging on by a thread is simply a waste of time. Of course that decision needs to be made by the individual but sometimes that person isn't able to decide such, and then loving relatives have to do that difficult decision.

    Which is why I've made it VERY clear to all my family and loved ones, my physician, and my priest, and also have set forth in a living will, that I do not want to be kept alive "just because" -- hey, pull the plug, guys.

    Questions that are helpful to ask include "When will he be able to take care of himself generally?" "When will he be able to dress, feed, and bathe himself with only minimal assistance and only occasionally?" "When will he be able to return to a self-sufficient life?"

    Things like that are essential. I know this because I've faced this with members of my family who were terminally ill and also have faced it for myself.

    Making harsh and difficult plans and getting it all in writing is important, hard as it may be to face.

    Yeah, but it should be YOUR decision. Not some faceless Govt. board
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    Sounds like Emanuel really bought into that Star Trek NG episode where a talented scientist on the brink of a successful research reached the arbitrary age where in his culture, people must be put down in a "Resolution."

    The inescapable fact is that all socialists are killers. National socialist or international socialist or democratic socialist makes no difference. They rationalize it to where it all makes perfect sense to them. Whether you're unborn, or born too long, mentally ill or incurably sick, socialists are eager to do you in and clock you out.

    Birth is fatal. Death comes for everyone, even for Kings he comes. The 'boatman" waits for us all. But as Glaucus said in Troy, "I say we make him wait a little longer."
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    horselips wrote: »
    Sounds like Emanuel really bought into that Star Trek NG episode where a talented scientist on the brink of a successful research reached the arbitrary age where in his culture, people must be put down in a "Resolution."

    The inescapable fact is that all socialists are killers. National socialist or international socialist or democratic socialist makes no difference. They rationalize it to where it all makes perfect sense to them. Whether you're unborn, or born too long, mentally ill or incurably sick, socialists are eager to do you in and clock you out.

    Birth is fatal. Death comes for everyone, even for Kings he comes. The 'boatman" waits for us all. But as Glaucus said in Troy, "I say we make him wait a little longer."

    this same thing is said in a burial service I've heard. A Quote from the Burial Service

    "When we look about us we see the marks of change and decay written upon every living thing, the cradle and the coffin stand side by side, and it is a solemn truth that as soon as we begin to live, that moment we begin to die. Yet how seldom do we seriously consider our own approaching end. We go on from design to design, add hope to hope and layout plans for the employment of many years. Then the messenger of death comes when we least expect him. What are all the externals of majesty, the pride of wealth, or the charms of beauty when nature has paid her last just debt? In the grave all fallacies are detected, all distinctions are done away. Here the scepter of the prince and the staff of the begger lie side by side."

    However, you can't put it off. When your number's up there's no saying "I say we make him wait a little longer." It's no longer up to us. However, our time here in this life shouldn't be left up to the government either unless we kill someone. Otherwise it should be up to God, not man.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    this same thing is said in a burial service I've heard. A Quote from the Burial Service

    "When we look about us we see the marks of change and decay written upon every living thing, the cradle and the coffin stand side by side, and it is a solemn truth that as soon as we begin to live, that moment we begin to die. Yet how seldom do we seriously consider our own approaching end. We go on from design to design, add hope to hope and layout plans for the employment of many years. Then the messenger of death comes when we least expect him. What are all the externals of majesty, the pride of wealth, or the charms of beauty when nature has paid her last just debt? In the grave all fallacies are detected, all distinctions are done away. Here the scepter of the prince and the staff of the begger lie side by side."

    However, you can't put it off. When your number's up there's no saying "I say we make him wait a little longer." It's no longer up to us. However, our time here in this life shouldn't be left up to the government either unless we kill someone. Otherwise it should be up to God, not man.

    That burial service is a bit dark. But I am of good cheer. As a believing Christian, Christ made me an offer I couldn't refuse - forgiveness, reconciliation and salvation - resurrection and eternal life. Works for me.

    In that scene from Troy, Glaucus is inspiring the Apollonian Guard to a heroic last stand against the Greeks - the boatman's "wait" will be determined by their valor. If he "waits" a little longer, it will be because they're fighting well and dying hard.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Colorado SpringsPosts: 7,821 Senior Member
    I do think a legitimate discussion can be had about how much of our socialized medical care (medicare specifically) should go to individuals above a certain age or level of health, especially with a major boom in the number of people reliant on that care over the next 2 decades.

    I'm guessing you are considerably younger than the age/health threshold you are contemplating.

    Got news for you, Junior.......I've been paying into that "free" system since before you were a spark in your parents eyes.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Linefinder wrote: »
    I'm guessing you are considerably younger than the age/health threshold you are contemplating.

    Got news for you, Junior.......I've been paying into that "free" system since before you were a spark in your parents eyes.

    Mike

    Well, some of these youngsters need to be De-Nutted before they reproduce!
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • samzheresamzhere Banned HoustonPosts: 10,923 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    this same thing is said in a burial service I've heard. A Quote from the Burial Service
    etc etc

    Interesting. What burial service is this taken from, just curious?

    As a slightly different take, this is from the Episcopal Book of Common Prayer for Burial of the Dead. This is in the preface and informative text:

    The liturgy for the dead is an Easter liturgy. It finds all its meaning in the resurrection. Because Jesus was raised from the dead, we, too, shall be raised.

    The liturgy, therefore, is characterized by joy, in the certainty that “neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

    This joy, however, does not make human grief unChristian. The very love we have for each other in Christ brings deep sorrow when we are parted by death. Jesus himself wept at the grave of his friend. So, while we rejoice that the one we love has entered into the nearer presence of our Lord, we sorrow in sympathy with those who mourn.
  • SlanteyedshootistSlanteyedshootist Senior Member Corvallis, OregonPosts: 3,947 Senior Member
    I believe that part of the agenda is to get rid of older voters who aren't impressed by the number of likes you get on facebook and twitter. We've been through a lot and rely on our judgement and experience to make decisions. Not some celebrity flake who made a lot of cool movies. Get rid of us and it's easier to control the peasants. Young, low info voters are easily swayed by bright, shiny, new things.

    And no, before the young'uns get offended, I'm not saying all young folks are dupes. I've met quite a few who impress me with their intelligence and maturity. But us old farts are just plain cooler.
    The answer to 1984 is 1776
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Under a logPosts: 27,457 Senior Member
    I believe that part of the agenda is to get rid of older voters who aren't impressed by the number of likes you get on facebook and twitter. We've been through a lot and rely on our judgement and experience to make decisions. Not some celebrity flake who made a lot of cool movies. Get rid of us and it's easier to control the peasants. Young, low info voters are easily swayed by bright, shiny, new things.

    And no, before the young'uns get offended, I'm not saying all young folks are dupes. I've met quite a few who impress me with their intelligence and maturity. But us old farts are just plain cooler.

    That's a pretty concise view on things. It's always refreshing to meet the younger set that have their heads on straight. We got some on board here, and they are assets.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    horselips wrote: »
    That burial service is a bit dark. But I am of good cheer. As a believing Christian, Christ made me an offer I couldn't refuse - forgiveness, reconciliation and salvation - resurrection and eternal life. Works for me.

    In that scene from Troy, Glaucus is inspiring the Apollonian Guard to a heroic last stand against the Greeks - the boatman's "wait" will be determined by their valor. If he "waits" a little longer, it will be because they're fighting well and dying hard.

    Of course that's only part of the service. It gets lighter toward the end. That is only the part that tells of the equalness of man in death and that all mortal men will someday die. But through our belief in the mercy of God that our souls will bloom in eternal Spring.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    I do think a legitimate discussion can be had about how much of our socialized medical care (medicare specifically) should go to individuals above a certain age or level of health, especially with a major boom in the number of people reliant on that care over the next 2 decades. It is by no means an easy or straight forward.

    Spoken like a one man death panel. No, my learned and distinguished friend, we must not have that discussion. Now or ever. For if we start sliding down that very slippery slope of deciding, for financial reasons or any other arbitrary measure, such as QARY (quality-adjusted remaining years) or QALY (quality-adjusted life years) who lives and who dies, none of us but the very rich will ever be certain of anything. Upon reaching a certain age, or being diagnosed with a certain condition, we will all live in fear, never knowing at what point we will be abandoned. Once we discover that we CAN kill people by denying them care, we WILL kill them, and after expanded rationalizations, we will find it easier and easier to kill MORE of them for those reasons. Look what we've done at the other end of the time line. It was always acceptable to abort a baby to save the life of the mother. Then we rationalized killing our babies if they were conceived through rape or incest. Now we kill them, by the millions, for any reason, or no reason - or just because we can.

    Health care must be given or at least offered. It must never be denied except by agreement between the patient and his physician. I don't care what it costs.
  • pjames777pjames777 Senior Member Lincoln, CAPosts: 1,421 Senior Member
    horselips wrote: »
    Spoken like a one man death panel. No, my learned and distinguished friend, we must not have that discussion. Now or ever. For if we start sliding down that very slippery slope of deciding, for financial reasons or any other arbitrary measure, such as QARY (quality-adjusted remaining years) or QALY (quality-adjusted life years) who lives and who dies, none of us but the very rich will ever be certain of anything. Upon reaching a certain age, or being diagnosed with a certain condition, we will all live in fear, never knowing at what point we will be abandoned. Once we discover that we CAN kill people by denying them care, we WILL kill them, and after expanded rationalizations, we will find it easier and easier to kill MORE of them for those reasons. Look what we've done at the other end of the time line. It was always acceptable to abort a baby to save the life of the mother. Then we rationalized killing our babies if they were conceived through rape or incest. Now we kill them, by the millions, for any reason, or no reason - or just because we can.

    Health care must be given or at least offered. It must never be denied except by agreement between the patient and his physician. I don't care what it costs.

    I believe (abortion on demand) proponents justified it as a "quality of life" issue..... the same can be said of the aged...or infirm...or defective....and it will happen. Once the line is drawn stating the those above or below the live have poor quality of life then the line can, and will, be adjusted accordingly by those that know best! Interesting that our FF wrote that "...all men are CREATED equal..." since they knew that some were born to poverty, slavery and some to wealth so Rights have to attach BEFORE birth......smart fellows they were! Sadly, our traditional way of life is no more, as Cal Thomas put it years ago...."we've lost".
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Living in a van, down by the river.Posts: 14,034 Senior Member
    One thing I haven't seen or I've glossed over is the health care of folks who would have been my grandparent's age. That would be people who are about the age of Teach and Tennmike's parents. Their healthcare was in part paid for by Medicare, Social Security, etc. I believe. When you look at for how long they paid into the system vs. the benefits they got, the disparity was pretty high. My dad worked in the health care industry, primarily elder care. He told me that people in his parent's generation were generally able to get back the Medicare and Social Security money they paid in (plus interest) within the first year of retirement. After that... they used income from other generations.

    Just a thought.
    I'm just here for snark.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Well you yougins keep working, I want my Social Security next year when I'm 62 and I have been paying into the System since I wuz 16. My turn.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Dellrose TNPosts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Health care costs could be drastically reduced- - - - -but the ambulance chasers with the politicians firmly tucked into their pockets won't allow it to happen. Ask any doctor why they run a whole series of ridiculously expensive diagnostic tests for every runny nose that comes through their doors- - - -it's called practicing "defensive medicine!" I'm sure Big Dan's E.R. doc wife could share some malpractice suit horror stories with us if the HIPPA laws would allow her to do so.
    Jerry
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,244 Senior Member
    Yes it's essentially a ponzi scheme, with every generation taking more benefits than they paid for, but one which no one is allowed to question or you're accused of murdering someone's grandpa.
    No it can be talked about. It is an egregious scam. But I do not want a bean counter determining my (or Jerry's) cost/benefit ratio.

    There are other ways we can cut cost than deciding that we only give pain meds to my grandpa that has cancer because he's 80. (My grandpa doesn't actually have cancer)

    Besides, he's started 2 multi million $ businesses SINCE he retired at 55. So wouldn't he be worth a hell of a lot more than most sorry, slacker 20-30 year olds? I mean if we're going to determine someone's worth to society, you can't just go by age, right?

    And once that's the case, God help you and me if we get so much as a broken finger.
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