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Buy guns, buy them now. Paranoid or prepared?

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  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Under a logPosts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Like I already said, I have the lab grade stuff already. The willow charcoal is sitting on the stump for the taking when I feel the need to make some. I don't have to worry about getting sulfur and potassium nitrate later, because I already have it. Enough to make 50 lbs. At 90 grains per charge, that's around 78 rounds per pound or 3888 rounds per 50 lbs.

    If Mythbusters did only a mechanical mixture, then I can see how that would fail miserably. The mixture needs to be wetted for the charcoal to absorb the other two chemicals. And stirred up thoroughly to get a good consistent mixture. And then screened into uniform grains while still damp. Water works but alcohol is better.

    If somebody found themselves behind the curve, they could just use sugar and commercial stump remover to make 'gray powder'. No sulfur required. It's lower grade stuff, but still works. Makes good solid fuel model rocket engines, though.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • bisleybisley Senior Member East TexasPosts: 10,815 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    Some call my mentality paranoia, but I disagree. I don't want these things because I have a delusion the government will take them away... I KNOW they will take them away. In today's political climate, thinking they won't be halted or confiscated is the delusion. It only gets worse from here; unless we get another Reagan in office and he overturns all the crap gun laws... But I don't believe in unicorns.

    Of course you are paranoid - people under constant, targeted assault do get paranoid - all gun owners/lovers are paranoid because powerful forces are dedicated to eliminating guns, and have been for a very long time. Going out and buying another gun whenever the gun-controllers are screeching their BS all over the airwaves and in print is completely normal behavior, in my opinion.

    Whether or not it is practical is debatable, because for it to be practical you have to believe that they will succeed, and that you will have some plan that will help you hold onto your own guns. Nobody knows these things for sure, but if you love shooting guns and can afford them, why not accumulate the ones you like, in the hope that you will be able to keep some of them if the worst case scenario happens? It's no worse than pissing off your money on any other expensive hobby, and if civil unrest comes to your neighborhood, you just might have the means to weather it, if your other preparations are sensible.

    I say go for it. Guns are kinda like what they say about gold - never worth nothing, even if it's less than what you bought it for.
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Pensacola, FLPosts: 10,838 Senior Member
    Yep...... Zero chance of facing multiple assailants. http://youtu.be/wT4o1y8OjZw
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • samzheresamzhere Banned HoustonPosts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    The cast of Mythbusters couldn't make black powder from scratch that worked well enough. If they'd had perfect components, they could have, but it took a LONG time to make it, and even then it was pretty bad at first.
    etc etc

    That's a fascinating post, Gene, and thanks. It outlines some of the "real world" stuff that these K-Mart mentality survivalists don't appreciate.

    First of all, as the recent thread about surviving a catastrophe without modern drugs points out, total bust of civilization means a return to Medieval levels of population and health. Those "man cave" preppers who think they'll be just fine are fooling themselves.

    As you correctly point out, true survival w. subsistence farming means near-starvation rations for those who do manage to survive, if only for a while.

    Those who are "preppers" for just the fun of it and as a sort of hobby, hey, it's kinda fun if you're in decent health and pretty mobile. But those who take it seriously and actually believe that they'll be okay following a total collapse of society are fooling themselves.

    IF and I say "if" with zero belief that it will ever happen, but if it did occur, bands of well armed thugs will be roaming the countryside, looking for food and medicine and whatever they can. There are enough ex-LEOs or ex-military people who are also thugs to provide a decent supply of effective leadership for such vigilante groups. First hit the gun stores, and while you're doing it, hijack a gasoline tanker truck and also raid the WallMart or similar for portable power units and tools and other supplies. Then lay up in an abandoned motel for HQ and form your little empire. Understand, I don't think such will ever occur but if you imagine a total breakdown of society, then yeah, small and vicious armed bands of thugs will be formed and they will have a few well trained thugs to be bosses of the group.

    But Gene, you see the inherent problems with subsistence farming and living "off the land" -- few people are genuinely equipped to do that.
  • mohicanmohican Member Posts: 381 Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Hint: There is NOT gonna be a revolution. Nor will the gummint send out paramilitary cops to seize your guns. Nor will there be a "zombie" apocalypse. None of this is going to occur within the lifetimes of ourselves or our kids or their kids.
    I hope that you are correct, but doubt that. What makes you thing that there is another two to three generations of stability?

    The actions of then New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, and then Louisiana Governor Blanco indicate that in a "micro" versus macro instance of social unrest you are absolutely wrong. Combine an extended emergency with an anti personal weapon administration and you have a recipe for short term TEOTWAWKI and forced disarmament, unless they are well hidden, or you have bugged out.
  • mohicanmohican Member Posts: 381 Member
    If we are seriously talking about acquiring more guns for some future emergency, then caching and storage has to be part of the topic.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned HoustonPosts: 10,923 Senior Member
    mohican wrote: »
    If we are seriously talking about acquiring more guns for some future emergency, then caching and storage has to be part of the topic.

    Don't forget meteor insurance!

    It's like those Y2K people who went nuts. I'd worked with computers for years and said "Nothing will happen, unless you've got an old, non-updated version of Windows that doesn't use 4-digit dates. Other than that, there won't be a flicker."

    And other folks got panicky. And those same folks got all squishy when that California (hint: California!) preacher told us it was the Apocalypse and the Second Coming and so on.

    And the people who got panicky about the "planetary alignment" and how it would tear the Moon apart or something similar, due to increased gravity? Duh. The difference in gravitational pull between alignment and non-alignment is about the same as your standing up vs sitting down. Guess what? Nothing happened.

    Predictions of an apocalypse are great for vendors who want to sell "get ready" kits and so on. Otherwise, don't hold your breath.

    It ain't gonna happen. No way, no time, not gonna do it.

    If folks enjoy "prepping" for the fun of it or as an excuse to "get back to nature" or to enjoy the rustic stuff, keen. Knock yourselves out.

    But taking it seriously? Yeah, right. Just watch out for those grey aliens!
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,583 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »

    In that thread I spoke of a purchase decision of ONE gun, not caching firearms. This thread was about accumulating a few guns on the target list of gun grabbers so that my collection can include them before getting them is impossible.

    And WROL can even be isolated like in a very bad natural disaster or riot.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • Elk creekElk creek Senior Member Colorado!Posts: 7,719 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »

    If folks enjoy "prepping" for the fun of it or as an excuse to "get back to nature" or to enjoy the rustic stuff, keen. Knock yourselves out.

    But taking it seriously? Yeah, right. Just watch out for those grey aliens!

    The problem is that most of these people honestly believe that it WILL happen and the MUST prepare, to the level of compulsion. Having a few days/weeks worth of food on hand isn't "prepping" it was a way of life at one point in time. We had a whole root cellar full when I was a kid. Canning the garden, cutting/curing meat was the norm. Not now, people are so far removed from life that the thought of being without power for a week send them into panic. Then the "prepping" mentality comes out of the panic and paranoia. RELAX!!! It ain't that bad! If you are worried about your neighbor steeling your stuff..... Go make lifelong friends out of them and have people to enjoy time in the dark around the table eating, laughing, and enjoying life!
    Aim higher, or get a bigger gun.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,583 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Don't forget meteor insurance!

    It's like those Y2K people who went nuts. I'd worked with computers for years and said "Nothing will happen, unless you've got an old, non-updated version of Windows that doesn't use 4-digit dates. Other than that, there won't be a flicker."

    And other folks got panicky. And those same folks got all squishy when that California (hint: California!) preacher told us it was the Apocalypse and the Second Coming and so on.

    And the people who got panicky about the "planetary alignment" and how it would tear the Moon apart or something similar, due to increased gravity? Duh. The difference in gravitational pull between alignment and non-alignment is about the same as your standing up vs sitting down. Guess what? Nothing happened.

    Predictions of an apocalypse are great for vendors who want to sell "get ready" kits and so on. Otherwise, don't hold your breath.

    It ain't gonna happen. No way, no time, not gonna do it.

    If folks enjoy "prepping" for the fun of it or as an excuse to "get back to nature" or to enjoy the rustic stuff, keen. Knock yourselves out.

    But taking it seriously? Yeah, right. Just watch out for those grey aliens!

    Never say never.

    Your gated community is making you a hair delusional. I'm sure a lot of countries said it would never happen and came to regret that mentality.

    Obamacare is making us poorer.
    Increased taxes are making us poorer.
    Inflation is making us poorer.
    Our debt outweighs our GDP.
    Hateful radicals are actively looking to attack us on our soil.
    We have a childish president with 2 years left.
    We have the likes of HR Clinton to possibly be his successor.

    How can you say never? I know you have a taste for the dramatic, but this isn't something you can just edit out of your next novel.

    I'm not saying panic-buy anything and everything, but I am saying be rational about possibilities. I live in hurricane alley and I have about 30 gallons of water sitting in my back room along with dozens of MRE style meals. Is that unjustified paranoia or preparation? A small tropical storm can knock out power for days. So what if a category 4 hits me?

    This administration has been to the American people what hurricane Katrina was to Louisiana. The damages are just far better concealed. How much more can the economic levees hold back?
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • mohicanmohican Member Posts: 381 Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Don't forget meteor insurance!

    It's like those Y2K people who went nuts. I'd worked with computers for years and said "Nothing will happen, unless you've got an old, non-updated version of Windows that doesn't use 4-digit dates. Other than that, there won't be a flicker."

    And other folks got panicky. And those same folks got all squishy when that California (hint: California!) preacher told us it was the Apocalypse and the Second Coming and so on.

    And the people who got panicky about the "planetary alignment" and how it would tear the Moon apart or something similar, due to increased gravity? Duh. The difference in gravitational pull between alignment and non-alignment is about the same as your standing up vs sitting down. Guess what? Nothing happened.

    Predictions of an apocalypse are great for vendors who want to sell "get ready" kits and so on. Otherwise, don't hold your breath.

    It ain't gonna happen. No way, no time, not gonna do it.

    If folks enjoy "prepping" for the fun of it or as an excuse to "get back to nature" or to enjoy the rustic stuff, keen. Knock yourselves out.

    But taking it seriously? Yeah, right. Just watch out for those grey aliens!


    I have a friend that independent of whatever predicted crisis has been a "prepper". A drunk driver pulled out in front of him when he was on his motorcycle, and he suffered some severe injuries and was out of work for a while. He lived for several years on hoarded cash and stored food while he recovered enough to go back to work, and while his insurance was fighting with the drunk's insurance company. Then there's this group (mormons) who through history have developed this system of keeping a years supplies on hand, also...
  • mohicanmohican Member Posts: 381 Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    Never say never.

    Your gated community is making you a hair delusional. I'm sure a lot of countries said it would never happen and came to regret that mentality.

    Obamacare is making us poorer.
    Increased taxes are making us poorer.
    Inflation is making us poorer.
    Our debt outweighs our GDP.
    Hateful radicals are actively looking to attack us on our soil.
    We have a childish president with 2 years left.
    We have the likes of HR Clinton to possibly be his successor.

    How can you say never? I know you have a taste for the dramatic, but this isn't something you can just edit out of your next novel.

    I'm not saying panic-buy anything and everything, but I am saying be rational about possibilities. I live in hurricane alley and I have about 30 gallons of water sitting in my back room along with dozens of MRE style meals. Is that unjustified paranoia or preparation? A small tropical storm can knock out power for days. So what if a category 4 hits me?

    This administration has been to the American people what hurricane Katrina was to Louisiana. The damages are just far better concealed. How much more can the economic levees hold back?

    I made this point, also. It may be micro versus macro, but there are instances where there is at least short term emergency. As shown in New Mogadishu in the Katrina Aftermath, politicians have no problem violating laws and going house to house to confiscate guns in order to "keep us safe".
  • samzheresamzhere Banned HoustonPosts: 10,923 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    Never say never.

    Your gated community is making you a hair delusional. I'm sure a lot of countries said it would never happen and came to regret that mentality.
    etc

    Er, I don't live in a gated community. I live smack in the center of Houston on a very public street and I'm just a lowly apartment dweller, ha ha. I don't know where you got the idea that I live in some sort of gated or protected environment. I certainly never implied this or said such.

    As one of us here has posted in his sigline, stocking up on stuff vs overbuying for an imagined catastrophe is different.

    I have a few days' supply of water and food put away, in event of a serious hurricane or other natural disaster that might knock out the power. This is only sensible and folks who live in an earthquake, tornado, or hurricane area are quite justified to keep supplies for such an event.

    What I do NOT do is make plans for the total breakdown of society, the apocalypse or whatever alphabet soup is the current meme.

    Nor do I have meteor strike insurance on my car, or zombie attack health insurance, which I equate 100% with societal collapse fears.

    There's a mathematical term called "approaches zero as a limit" and it essentially means that the chance of an event is so close to zero probability that you may as well use "zero" as the number. That's how I judge total society collapse. And people can list woes and suspicions till the cows come home but it doesn't make the event any more likely to occur. For ages, people have listed dire warnings that the "big one" was imminent. Never happened. Never will. Approaches zero as a limit.

    Yeah, there's a minute, teeny weeny chance that something like a total societal collapse might occur. There is a remote chance, maybe a billion to one odds, that this will happen. But am I gonna prep for it. Nope. Same as I don't wear a protective helmet when I go outside for fear that a small meteorite might hit me on the head. Is there a "chance" that it might occur? Sure. But the chance is so small that it's goofy to put on a helmet when I step outside.

    If folks want to wear protective headgear in the event of a meteor strike, go for it. And if those same folks wanna prep for the "big one" (societal collapse) then be my guest. I'll try not to laugh behind their backs, at least not a lot.

    Don't forget your meteor-strike helmet! Hey, it COULD happen, and as you say, never say never. So be sure to be protected from grey aliens and roving zombies and meteorites, and also, the apocalypse. I put the chances of all these as the same, close to zero as no nevermind.
  • mohicanmohican Member Posts: 381 Member
    Whether or not there will be a societal collapse can be an interesting discussion. If the rug were pulled out from under the dollar quickly, so to speak it could happen in a hurry. If we - the U.S. does not change course monetarily then we can have the slow disappearance of the middle class. If the U.S. ends up with extremely stratified Rich and Poor classes, then collapse, revolution, etc could happen, also.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,583 Senior Member
    I'm sorry, but I think you like making fun of this because it's in your nature and for no other reason. I think it's pretty clear you hold your nose up at anyone who doesn't just chug right along with societal norms.

    Aren't you in your 70s? Haven't you seen several presidencies both Democrat and Republican? Haven't you observed how with each leftist president we get they just compound the terrible crap the last one left behind?

    If you think society can't collapse--even in isolated instances--talk to the citizens of Ferguson, Missouri or New Orleans, Louisiana circa 2004. You are out of your mind if you think nothing will ever happen.

    Meteor insurance? I think you've said that 9 times in your last few posts. Wasn't funny the first time.

    Socialists, fascists, Marxists and the like have dictated over and murdered FAR FAR more people than meteors have. So no, I'm prepping for socialists infinitely more than meteors.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,077 Senior Member
    9AF92B23-2786-48B0-AB43-08BC5A052CCE_zpszkctw7ky.gif
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,244 Senior Member
    Socialists, and fascists, and Marxists, OH MY!
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Living in a van, down by the river.Posts: 14,041 Senior Member
    Wouldn't the socialists and Marxists fight the fascists?
    I'm just here for snark.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Under a logPosts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Wouldn't the socialists and Marxists fight the fascists?

    Probably. Which is as good a reason as any to be prepared in case you get caught in the middle of such a battle. And if you did get caught in the middle, it would be one helluva target rich environment!
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Living in a van, down by the river.Posts: 14,041 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Probably. Which is as good a reason as any to be prepared in case you get caught in the middle of such a battle. And if you did get caught in the middle, it would be one helluva target rich environment!
    You then pull out some Chesty Puller quotes:

    "We're surrounded. That simplifies our problem of getting to these people and killing them."
    "They are in front of us, behind us, and we are flanked on both sides by an enemy that outnumbers us 29:1. They can't get away from us now!"
    "Great. Now we can shoot at those bastards from every direction."
    I'm just here for snark.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    So this post now scares away all the other posts like mine about gun ownership BEFORE this post was made?

    You do realize that no less than 20 of you have a GIGANTIC thread from March/April that not only described an arsenal of weapons but WHERE you could be found damn near every year in Tennessee, right?

    Yeah, but even a cop would have to be a little brain dead to come out there and try to disarm the participants! There's lots of weaponry out there and if somebody does come with that intent they better bring their lunch and a bunch of people!!! Talk about going into a hornets nest! Like stickin your head in a bee hive.

    :rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,583 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Yeah, but even a cop would have to be a little brain dead to come out there and try to disarm the participants! There's lots of weaponry out there and if somebody does come with that intent they better bring their lunch and a bunch of people!!! Talk about going into a hornets nest! Like stickin your head in a bee hive.

    :rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:

    "A" cop? They wouldn't send just one. And are you even mildly, amateurish-ly prepared for a planned, tactical assault?

    I'm not trying to make this a JBT discussion, but if assuming just because you're armed--even in numbers--that somehow immumizes you from government intrusion just ask David Koresh how that worked out.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    I have no idea how Holder's resignation instills panic gun buys, but here we go again. Just when the market was getting soft...

    Hey Obama took a crap this morning! Better buy guns!

    I don't think I'll run out and buy the stores out of ammo every time Big O farts, but anytime this administration does much past eating breafast I feel a tinge of panic. These Bozos know not what they do and when they do anything it worries hell out of me.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    Hmmmm. Haven't seen a Mayan around these parts since 2012.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,766 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Yeah, but even a cop would have to be a little brain dead to come out there and try to disarm the participants! There's lots of weaponry out there and if somebody does come with that intent they better bring their lunch and a bunch of people!!! Talk about going into a hornets nest! Like stickin your head in a bee hive.

    :rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:

    I seriously doubt the SE Shoot is attended by a bunch of murderers. That's what you're implying. Not that there's any Constitutional reason for any LEO to disarm the participants.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member East TexasPosts: 10,815 Senior Member
    Wouldn't the socialists and Marxists fight the fascists?

    Yes, but later.

    Example: Nazi Germany had a treaty with the Soviet Union, while they were busy blitzkrieging Europe. Supposedly, they would leave some of eastern Europe and half of Poland for them while they subdued England and France. As soon as it became apparent that England was in for the long haul, they backed off the offensive on them and instead broke the treaty with the USSR, and attacked them.

    Socialism, in all of its various forms, including fascism, is held together by clever propaganda that promises Utopia, magnifies the flaws in capitalism, and low-rates individual freedom. Socialists, like radical Islamists, believe that the end justifies the means, and that alliances can be made or dissolved, at will, with anyone, if it advances the greater cause.
  • mohicanmohican Member Posts: 381 Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but I think you like making fun of this because it's in your nature and for no other reason. I think it's pretty clear you hold your nose up at anyone who doesn't just chug right along with societal norms.

    Aren't you in your 70s? Haven't you seen several presidencies both Democrat and Republican? Haven't you observed how with each leftist president we get they just compound the terrible crap the last one left behind?

    If you think society can't collapse--even in isolated instances--talk to the citizens of Ferguson, Missouri or New Orleans, Louisiana circa 2004. You are out of your mind if you think nothing will ever happen.

    Meteor insurance? I think you've said that 9 times in your last few posts. Wasn't funny the first time.

    Socialists, fascists, Marxists and the like have dictated over and murdered FAR FAR more people than meteors have. So no, I'm prepping for socialists infinitely more than meteors.

    He also has not responded to the reminder that in some recent times of emergency, government people did use the emergency as a pretext to confiscate weapons. Also, if a President states he has an affinity for Lincoln and FDR (which Obama has stated) then he is familiar with the abuses of power those two used. FDR thought nothing of rounding up Japanese Americans. US citizens with German Last names all of a sudden felt the need to speak English, start wearing long pants and send their kids to "English" schools.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,583 Senior Member
    mohican wrote: »
    He also has not responded to the reminder that in some recent times of emergency, government people did use the emergency as a pretext to confiscate weapons. Also, if a President states he has an affinity for Lincoln and FDR (which Obama has stated) then he is familiar with the abuses of power those two used. FDR thought nothing of rounding up Japanese Americans. US citizens with German Last names all of a sudden felt the need to speak English, start wearing long pants and send their kids to "English" schools.

    If you can honestly tell me that when you see two middle-eastern men between 18 and 30 years old whispering to each other in a crowded mall while looking around at people that you don't feel even the slightest hint of suspicion, then maybe I will buy what I quoted you saying...
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,249 Senior Member
    I follow the El-Al policy, profile everybody.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • Elk creekElk creek Senior Member Colorado!Posts: 7,719 Senior Member
    Be nice,polite, cordial and smile, but have a plan to eliminate ANY threat they may pose with extreme prejudice!
    Aim higher, or get a bigger gun.
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