South Carolina State Trooper, Fired & Arrested After Shooting Unarmed Man

Big ChiefBig Chief Senior MemberPosts: 32,985 Senior Member
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
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Replies

  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,803 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »

    What was this idiot thinking? even if the guy turns out guilty of something, that doesn't appear to be the best way to handle it. Hello Rodney King?
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,354 Senior Member
    I'll reserve judgment (uncharacteristic for me, I know) but from what I've seen, this guy probably should never have been a cop and maybe should do time. This seems like a total overreaction to me.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,624 Senior Member
    KA - **** !!! I see a 7 or 8 figure settlement, and this cop doing a loooooong stretch in stir. Groubert is a jerk. He told the guy to get his license, and when he went into his truck to get it, Groubert ordered him out of his truck. As he complied with the officer's command, the officer shot him anyway. I'd love to be on that jury - to hear the spin Groubert's attorney tries to put on this one.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,985 Senior Member
    Man, it is not smart to even cut wind when stopped anymo. Crazy stuff seems to be happening more and more last few years.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,354 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    .


    Autocensor, or second thoughts?
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,652 Senior Member
    With some of the stuff I have seen that LE claimed was justified I'll wait and see. He damn near murdered that young man. Good thing the cop couldn't shoot worth a damn.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,267 Senior Member
    The now Ex-cop needs to spend a few weekends in the drunk tank. I'm sure he will eventually encounter a few of the people he has arrested and abused. Karma- - - - -it's a beach!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • NJSOGNJSOG Member Posts: 101 Member
    Bad shoot. He was SC Trooper of the year or received high commendations in 2013. Bad Shoot.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,465 Senior Member
    A citizen's worst nightmare: complying with the police gets you shot.
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • the independentthe independent Member Posts: 52 Member
    I watched that with some police multiple times. I see many errors. I also saw a split second that I was not sure what he was holding that a number of police said they may have shot there.

    The big mistake leading to the shooting was the violation of the rule, you stay in control of the situation until you have deemed it safe. This was not done. The question where is you license, was not asked. That would have told the officer what to do. Tell the person to reach in slowly facing him if possible and remove if holding between his thumb and forefinger. Then lay it on a place it can be picked up. Basics that did not get done. Control was dropped leading to that sinking feeling that can lead to something bad.

    It would have taken that little extra time, but prevented the outcome that happened. Then once secure, you explain that to the person, to let them know why the initial attitude was done, it was for the safety of both until the scene was deemed secure.
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,652 Senior Member
    So then this was justified? That split second thing.

    I watched that with some police multiple times. I see many errors. I also saw a split second that I was not sure what he was holding that a number of police said they may have shot there.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,985 Senior Member
    The reason for stopping him..."Routine Traffic Stop"??????
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,068 Senior Member
    As a retired cop of a long time of service, I didn't see a thing that would justify shooting a guy when you can't see his hands. I don't know the reason for the stop, and it isn't given. Doesn't matter if it was a possible felony stop, you don't shoot a person unless you're in fear of either your life or extreme bodily harm.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,243 Senior Member
    The cop says in the video, Gene. He stopped him for not wearing his seatbelt. The victim says that he just unbuckled as he was pulling into the gas station.

    Bad, just bad, all around.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,985 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    The cop says in the video, Gene. He stopped him for not wearing his seatbelt. The victim says that he just unbuckled as he was pulling into the gas station.

    Bad, just bad, all around.

    Good thing he wasn't Jaywalking............he might of got a load of Buckshot! :yikes:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,068 Senior Member
    horselips wrote: »
    KA - **** !!! I see a 7 or 8 figure settlement, and this cop doing a loooooong stretch in stir. Groubert is a jerk. He told the guy to get his license, and when he went into his truck to get it, Groubert ordered him out of his truck. As he complied with the officer's command, the officer shot him anyway. I'd love to be on that jury - to hear the spin Groubert's attorney tries to put on this one.

    I doubt there has ever been an 8-figure settlement unless an entire family was paralyzed or something. The state will pay up to the limit of their insurance and that's it. The State of South Carolina isn't going to take money out of their treasury to pay off a Trooper's stupid mistake.

    Nor do I think he'll do a loooooong stretch in prison. People who shoot other people in my state, and I'm talking about gang-bangers, may get a couple of years. You would never be on that or any jury since you believe in jury nullification and have posted this opinion before.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    It don't matter if you believe in the tooth Fairy, as long as you don't admit to it in court.

    In a traffic stop, you set the tone for how things will go, my advice is to not antagonize the LEO stopping you, if that LEO is a Pollyanna and gets you to acting smarmy snarky jailhouse lawyer, things can and will go south fast, I CCW almost continually, so I set the tone from the start, it it is to my benefit for it to be so and so far, all my encounters with few notable exceptions, have been quite positive, even when I was at fault.

    I advocate carrying your ID credentials etc in a top shirt pocket and produce it slowly when asked, be cordial / respectful and all should go well.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,458 Senior Member
    Honestly I don't put much merit in the unarmed part. Lets face it, it wouldn't be hard at all for an unarmed person to make you think something really bad was about to happen.
    I don't think this officer's actions (or reactions) were right, but I can certainly see where he was coming from.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,354 Senior Member
    Honestly I don't put much merit in the unarmed part. Lets face it, it wouldn't be hard at all for an unarmed person to make you think something really bad was about to happen.
    I don't think this officer's actions (or reactions) were right, but I can certainly see where he was coming from.


    I don't doubt that the trooper believed that something bad was going down, but that first shot was fired as the dude started turning around. His hands weren't even visible yet. There's a fine line between being alert and ready to respond to any situation, and assuming that 'that' situation is here and now and acting accordingly.

    Change the scenario a tad. Instead of the shooter being a trooper, let's say he's Joe Sixpack with a CCW who has just had a minor fender bender with the victim. Victim reaches into his vehicle to get his license, etc. and gets plugged because CCW dude felt threatened. Would any of us be talking about 'seeing where he was coming from'? I don't mean to bust your chops personally, more just trying to explain where I'm at.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,068 Senior Member
    I think the SC trooper thought the guy was reaching for a weapon, but I don't think his fear was rational. We have classes on shoot/don't shoot and I guess SC does the same. Not a "shoot" situation. Nothing shown leading up to the shoot indicates to me that the dude was reaching for a weapon. Which is probably why the trooper was fired and arrested.

    I've been in situations similar to the trooper before and so, probably, have most cops. The trooper had plenty of time to determine if the dude had a gun before shooting. And the "tenor" of the situation didn't lead up to the justification of shooting. Body language wasn't there for me. Enough to draw a weapon, "maybe." But not enough for me. I'm pretty quick with my draw and would have probably waited. Just my opinion. I don't know the trooper's mind and I wasn't there. I can't really see where the trooper was coming from.

    I carry my license in my wallet, but my registration and proof of insurance are in the dash pocket of my car, and I'd hate to get shot (REALLY hate to get shot) for complying with a lawful order.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,803 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    I think the SC trooper thought the guy was reaching for a weapon, but I don't think his fear was rational. We have classes on shoot/don't shoot and I guess SC does the same. Not a "shoot" situation. Nothing shown leading up to the shoot indicates to me that the dude was reaching for a weapon. Which is probably why the trooper was fired and arrested.

    I've been in situations similar to the trooper before and so, probably, have most cops. The trooper had plenty of time to determine if the dude had a gun before shooting. And the "tenor" of the situation didn't lead up to the justification of shooting. Body language wasn't there for me. Enough to draw a weapon, "maybe." But not enough for me. I'm pretty quick with my draw and would have probably waited. Just my opinion. I don't know the trooper's mind and I wasn't there. I can't really see where the trooper was coming from.

    I carry my license in my wallet, but my registration and proof of insurance are in the dash pocket of my car, and I'd hate to get shot (REALLY hate to get shot) for complying with a lawful order.

    I have to agree with Gene. I've been pulled over as much as the next guy and I admit that I have clumsily reached for my ID and paper work. And if this guy would have stopped me he may have shot me for absolutely nothing. I think the guy LEO just made a bad move shooting the guy. I think he panicked. This whole thing sucks and stinks to high heaven.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,267 Senior Member
    If this officer has been decorated for exemplary service in the past, as someone mentioned, something must have happened in his professional or personal life to turn him into a trigger-happy menace to the public. We had a local game warden who was pushed into an involuntary "retirement" over a similar situation. Nobody got shot, but he drew down on a group of hunters during a routine hunting license check under totally inappropriate circumstances. One false move by anyone might have resulted in a shooting. Over several years, the guy had turned from a very capable wildlife officer to a spooky, extremely paranoid individual. He had been promoted to "area supervisor", possibly to limit his one-on-one interaction with the public, but it just didn't work.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,068 Senior Member
    I think it was a SC Trooper who had an older woman out of her car and sucking pavement because she didn't stop soon enough. True, she was clearly aware she was being pursued and did not stop within a reasonable time, but she was older and obviously unarmed, just didn't stop for her own reasons. She was drawn down on and shouted at, all on soon-to-be national TV. This, too, by a previously honored LEO.

    Which should have been a teaching moment.

    I used to tell my guys the only reason to yell at someone is to keep you from drawing down on them. I also taught them either a ticket or a lecture, but never both.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,624 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    You would never be on that or any jury since you believe in jury nullification and have posted this opinion before.

    I was empanelled on a federal jury 3 years ago, and over the years I have served on 3 superior court juries, and one 'mock' jury. The 'mock' jury was the best. It lasted one day, was held in a nice hotel with free parking, we were served a vey nice free lunch, and we were paid $100.
  • TrueTone911TrueTone911 Senior Member Posts: 6,045 Senior Member
    You got 100 bucks for a 1 day jury in a nice hotel??

    You suck!
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,624 Senior Member
    You got 100 bucks for a 1 day jury in a nice hotel??

    You suck!

    Yeah, and that was almost 20 years ago, when a hundred bucks was still worth something.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,267 Senior Member
    I just got notified I'm scheduled to testify as an "expert witness" in a lawsuit over one of the mechanical inspections I did over a year ago. Round trip plane fare to Tampa FL., motel, meals, rental car, and a nice stipend for up to 3 days in court, courtesy of Bridgestone/Firestone. Tampa might be a nice place to be for a while in mid-November, especially on somebody else's dime!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • HummerHummer Member Posts: 53 Member
    I used to work for the Patrol, shooting was in no way justified. If I was on the jury I would vote guilty quick!. I had a converstion with a retd Sgt from the Patrol a couple years back and he told me the quality of the people they are taking now would not have made it when I was working. I agreed with him completely.

    One thing I constantly heard while working "when I shoot someone" only one ever said "IF I have to shoot someone" Note the intent word "WHEN". I think that is what is called a Freudian Slip. The basis for the conversations was when guys would be talking about calibers, guns etc.
    Distinguished Rifleman High Power & Smallbore Prone, Presidents Hundred (Rifle), US Palma Teams, US Dewar Teams. Certified Small Arms and Ammunition Test Director Aberdeen Proving Ground. Charter Member Int Wound Ballistics Assn. NRA Benefactor, Shriner, AC4HT
  • LonestarwolfLonestarwolf New Member Posts: 1 New Member
    I'm doing some research on which is a better handgun to carry for concealment. I could really use anyone's input on the matter and it is always appreciated to hear from the experts. I'm looking for an automatic which is small enough to conceal but can pack a punch if need be. I have searched many gun stores and own a few rifles and shotguns but still undecided on my own personal carry on weapon. Any suggestions are welcome.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,837 Senior Member
    Lonestarwolf.. Welcome....It would be more productive to start a new thread in the Personal Defense Forum instead of burying your inquiry in an unrelated thread.
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
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