Ebola is here

124

Replies

  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,540 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • centermass556centermass556 Senior Member Posts: 3,508 Senior Member
    During lunch I saw they are going to give the guy the experimental drug from canada.

    and...right about now to the next 48 is when folks that came into contact with him should start showing symptoms if they are infected.
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,727 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »

    Firestone done good. Contain, quarantine, teach, and properly bury the dead.
    Haven't heard a peep of this on any major news outlet. Good news doesn't fit the profile, I guess.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,978 Senior Member
    Most nurses surveyed said they have inadequate training to deal with EBOLA patients they come in contact with. Said most don't know what to do if a suspected carrier comes in the hospital, follow CDC, WHO procedures or call for a supervisor. Few know about protective clothing and proper handling procedures.

    News said one hospital had trouble getting rid of the medical waste from an EBOLA patient here in the US (I think where one of those docs were brought to for treatment) said the disposal company refused to pick it up so they went to Lowe's or Home Depot and bought plastic buckets to store it in until they got instructions from CDC on how to handle/dispose of it.

    We as a country are so under-prepared to deal with anything over a few outbreaks.

    Why hell, that's reassuring ain't it. :yikes: :yikes:

    I'm still not overly concerned about it, but somewhat concerned how easily overwhelmed our hospitals would be with more than a couple cases at a time.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,540 Senior Member
    Chief, if you read the article about Firestone, they learned what to do from the internet! I would think a trained nurse would have an idea as to how to handle an infectious disease since ebola isn't the only infectious disease out there. I also learned on the internet that incineration is the most effective way to handle any medical waste from infectious diseases.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,829 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Most nurses surveyed said they have inadequate training to deal with EBOLA patients they come in contact with. Said most don't know what to do if a suspected carrier comes in the hospital, follow CDC, WHO procedures or call for a supervisor. Few know about protective clothing and proper handling procedures.

    News said one hospital had trouble getting rid of the medical waste from an EBOLA patient here in the US (I think where one of those docs were brought to for treatment) said the disposal company refused to pick it up so they went to Lowe's or Home Depot and bought plastic buckets to store it in until they got instructions from CDC on how to handle/dispose of it.

    We as a country are so under-prepared to deal with anything over a few outbreaks.

    Why hell, that's reassuring ain't it. :yikes: :yikes:

    I'm still not overly concerned about it, but somewhat concerned how easily overwhelmed our hospitals would be with more than a couple cases at a time.

    Bull crap....I find this really hard to believe....Universal Precautions are called "Universal" for a reason....and have been mandatory training for medical people since the advent of AIDS/HIV...I would wager that those nurses that they interviewed were NOT ER nurses who are likey to be the point of the spear with this stuff - as well as EMS people. Your average floor nurse will never see an Ebola patient.

    The key to all this is treating ALL patients like they have Ebola/Black Plague/Smallpox, etc, etc, etc until it's proved that they don't. (The line we used to used when folks asked whye we were gloving/masking up when had contact with them was "This is for YOUR protection, not mine"...for the most part they bought it.

    Every hospital I've ever had anything to do with had an incinerator for dealing with medical waste/body parts, bits & pieces.... and that's whats supposed to happen to ALL medical waste.....(unless they dump it in the Great Lakes of course)
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,978 Senior Member
    A sanitation nurse caught it in Spain changing the infected Priest's adult diaper. And later she removed his belongings. She was following protocol and wearing the protective clothing provided by the hospital. Now some debate about the gear she wore and if it was worn properly or inadequate.

    AIDS is "Blood on Blood" right? So I do not know what the differences in transmission are between that and Ebola. Maybe some different precautions are required and protections/gear for Ebola than the usual suspects they normally encounter at hospitals.

    I would hate to be be one of the unfortunate ones to find out. The Docs brought back from Africa were given special treatment/handling and segregated as soon as they got here and on their flights where they knew ahead of time to take all precautions. Once here they had separate facilities set up/isolation and protection procedures were at the MAX entering/treating/leaving with full decontamination.

    Everyday ERs are not at anywhere near that level.

    Just sayin.................

    BTW: My :angel2: go out to all the victims of this horrible virus and their families.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 8,525 Senior Member
    And now the patient in Texas is dead. I cant help but wonder how many will follow??
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,978 Senior Member
    They are gonna put that nurse's dog down in Spain. Animals can be carriers too, of Ebola. I think they are BSing folks to try and keep the hysteria down. Good luck with 24/7 news coverage about Ebola, they are worse than the Weather Channel reporters salivating talking about the possibility of a hurricane forming from a tropical storm. :rotflmao::rotflmao:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • centermass556centermass556 Senior Member Posts: 3,508 Senior Member
    I'm not 100% is not Airborne...Or has a Temporary Airborne Transmittal life.

    I think BC is right, to keep mass hysteria down they will lie to us all the way to the point where it is too late.
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,978 Senior Member
    2nd person in Texas now has Ebola news is saying now. Came in contact with patient who died.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,978 Senior Member
    Now saying the early reports are wrong, but individual had recently been to Africa and is displaying symptoms of Ebola.

    Reenforces my point, we should stop letting people in fro over there until they are cleared by quarantine and past incubation/being contagious. One country in Africa did and stopped it cold from spreading with more harsh measures than our Gooberment wants to impose.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,829 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    A sanitation nurse caught it in Spain changing the infected Priest's adult diaper. And later she removed his belongings. She was following protocol and wearing the protective clothing provided by the hospital. Now some debate about the gear she wore and if it was worn properly or inadequate.

    AIDS is "Blood on Blood" right? So I do not know what the differences in transmission are between that and Ebola. Maybe some different precautions are required and protections/gear for Ebola than the usual suspects they normally encounter at hospitals.

    I would hate to be be one of the unfortunate ones to find out. The Docs brought back from Africa were given special treatment/handling and segregated as soon as they got here and on their flights where they knew ahead of time to take all precautions. Once here they had separate facilities set up/isolation and protection procedures were at the MAX entering/treating/leaving with full decontamination.

    Everyday ERs are not at anywhere near that level.

    Just sayin.................

    BTW: My :angel2: go out to all the victims of this horrible virus and their families.

    There are many ways to contaminate yourself while wearing protective gear (nothing is bulletproof)...
    * The most obvious is inadvertently snagging a glove or suit and not noticing the tear til it's too late...
    * Needle sticks...
    * Wearing your mask too long or not changing it out often enough. Some of the most commonly used masks are effective for about 20 minutes...some of the flat paper/fiber masks I've seen caregivers wearing over there weren't effective when they came out of the box...moisture in exhaled air compromises them within minutes.
    * If wearing a respirator, not changing out filters and disinfecting the whole rig after each contact with a patient. Contaminated filters become a petri dish for viruses and bacteria....
    * Taking off contaminated gear for disposal is a GREAT time to contaminate yourself...
    * Inadvertently touching your eye, wiping your nose in a contaminated environment....think about it...

    It's not just about wearing protective gear....it's about wearing, using, and monitoring it correctly.

    I will practically guarantee that complacency somewhere along the line played a huge part in this nurses exposure...

    The safest thing to be wearing when dealing with Ebola patients would be an encapsulated suit with a supplied air respirator...but considering it's West Africa...I doubt the infrastructure exists to support all those folks in that level of protection.
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,662 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    2nd person in Texas now has Ebola news is saying now. Came in contact with patient who died.

    Just heard on the radio that it was one of the Deputies that entered the apartment after Patient Zero was removed.

    IF (and thats a big IF) that is true- then this could get ugly
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,978 Senior Member
    Thing is this in the US is fairly new and I'm sure protocol/procedures/precautions/treatments/detection will evolve the more they deal with it and lessons learned from those over in Africa.

    I just don't think they should allow anyone from/traveling from/have been in those countries in here unless really checked out first. If that means overseas or an isolated compound after arriving until they test negative, so be it.

    The CDC's lame reason saying they shouldn't be any travel restrictions is bunk. We can help without allowing possibly infected persons in and still send help over to Africa and allow those US citizens to return after quarantine.

    So they have beefed up screening at US Airports (5) , watch there will be more procedures as time goes by in this learn as we go crisis. Sadly, when it subsides we will be better prepared than ever to deal with any future cases.

    I see they are training up folks on Fort McClellan ALA our old Chemical Warfare NBC training base before they go.

    I think there still is a lot more unknowns than what is known about Ebola.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,978 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    Just heard on the radio that it was one of the Deputies that entered the apartment after Patient Zero was removed.

    IF (and thats a big IF) that is true- then this could get ugly

    I'm afraid you are correct if it pans out to be so.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,978 Senior Member
    TX Deputy tested NEG, good news.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,978 Senior Member
    That Dallas hospital was a major FAIL on equipment and training according to the Nurse's Union and many others, protocol constantly changed as the days went by.

    Couple other hospitals seem to have gotten containment right, though.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/dallas-hospital-learned-its-ebolo-protocols-while-struggling-to-save-mortally-ill-patient/2014/10/14/32ff2414-53cf-11e4-892e-602188e70e9c_story.html
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,978 Senior Member
    As they were saying on Imus this morning how in the hell does the CDC expect to track passengers from Africa when they can't even track the nurses/watch them who treated Ebola patients here in the US of A. One took a flight, now one is on a cruise!

    CDC is big FAIL.

    And I guess the wedding dress shop is screwed where one who took the flight with CDCs approval and is positive went to try on dresses fer her wedding too.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,254 Senior Member
    Hmmmmm- - - - - - -I wonder if Edgar Allen Poe was some kind of a prophet?

    http://www.online-literature.com/poe/36/

    :uhm:
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,727 Senior Member
    I think they're lying about the disease not being airborne. Once the lungs are compromised and the person is coughing up blood and liquid droplets from the lungs, those can stay airborne long enough to travel to another person and they can breathe that crap into their lungs.

    Unless the room the patient is in is being kept under negative pressure through a fan and series of medical HEPA filters, then it is possible for the stuff to spread.

    And I know a bit about the fan and filter thing. In nuclear when a pipe had to be opened, ground on and welded that held radioactive stuff a tent was placed around the area. Full dressout + bubble suit + supplied air to the bubble suit at positive pressure was SOP. And a HEPA filter unit was run full time to pull in and catch any particulate. It worked well keeping contamination inside the tent to a minimum, and definitely kept it from migrating outside then tent area.

    I think the CDC, and the government in general, is blowing a lot of smoke and using a lot of mirrors to mask how inadequately they are containing the surroundings of the Ebola patients.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,978 Senior Member
    The concern now was a Lab worker who handled blood testing for Ebola, who happens to be on a Cruise Ship (Carnival). She put herself in "Self Quarantine" in her cabin. Mexico refused to let the ship make port and it is headed back to Texas.

    Self monitoring is a very stupid idy, it ain't working. One nurse to her wedding preparations after the CDC said she could go because she said she didn't have a high fever. She is Nurse#2

    That plane (the first one) is flying today...........so all the stops it has made and different destinations, changing passengers.... and 4000 on that ship.........oh boy lets pray that lab worker ain't positive.

    Man, more bad movie scripts if this crap spreads. If professionals are carrying it around because the CDC said they were OK or they haven't received enough training and /or didn't have the right protective gear, what do you think the ordinary citizen may do, who has had no Bio-hazard training at all?

    Jayhawker, I know they have all had some training on how to protect themselves from common hospital viruses and infections, not Ebola. The medical community and the Nurses Union and Docs are admitting they are under-trained and under protected except for the few special hospitals set up for Ebola patients/treatment.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,978 Senior Member
    Now, news saying a woman on a shuttle bus going from the Pentagon to the Marine Barracks in DC described as DOD contractor and who said she had travelled to Liberia a couple weeks ago..........got sick on the bus. She was taken away and passengers are being held on the bus.

    WTH is going on?????
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    I love humanity; it's people I can't stand. :tooth:

    Now THAT'S funny!

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    So they really don't have any cocktails of specific EBOLA drugs to cure it available if an endemic/epidemic hits the USA?

    No, they don't. Add to this the fact that there is NO cure for any viral disease. Never has been.

    Yes, there are vaccines to immunize against it (although there is no Ebola vaccine now) and symptoms can be treated (like drugs to bring down a fever or help prevent electrolyte loss) but virus diseases have no cure. The disease runs its course and you can only treat symptoms, not cure it. Ick.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Nope, supposedly there is that Canadian anti-viral drug. Not been through all the testing to get approved, don't know if it will help or not. Problem is that the grand total of drugs on the market that kill viruses is still zero. They are all supportive in nature. Only way to stop a virus is with immunization.

    Exactly right -- I didn't see your post before I posted my own reply but yeah, you're 100% correct. Immunization is the only way but there are no Ebola vaccines yet.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 wrote: »
    No, God gave you an immune sytem that works just fine.

    Er, not perzactly. We can develop antibodies to immunize ourselves but to do so naturally we must first contract either the disease or a weakened strain of it to develop the needed antibodies.

    For example, before the polio vaccines were developed, naturally weakened strains of the virus were floating around and people would get that weakened version and therefore develop an immunity to the seriously bad strain that paralyzed you.

    So may times, a person would have a low grade fever, aches, and a "stiff neck" for a few days, then get well. The person had contracted a weakened strain of the virus and by undergoing the sickness, the body developed the needed antibodies to ward off the more virulent strain.

    But this process wasn't absolute -- having the weak version didn't totally guarantee immunity, just provided "fairly good" protection. If the strain you contracted, for example, was too far removed chemically from the nasty version, your immunity wasn't effective.

    Problem with rhinovirus (common cold) is that there are so many diverse strains out there that you'll get the cold one winter and you're then only immune to that particular strain, and next winter another strain comes along and zaps you. Same as the flu, which is why you need a new flu shot each season, to protect against that particular strain.

    Developing natural immunity is chancy. And even getting your immunity from commercially produced antiviruses isn't failsafe, either. Luckily, for some viral diseases, like smallpox or polio, the antivirus is almost 100% effective and only fails to provide lifetime immunity in very rare cases.

    Ebola may or may not be among those viral diseases that rapidly mutate. Thus far it seems to not be, and therefore falls into the categories of smallpox or polio, and when a good antiviral vaccine is developed, that should virtually eliminate the disease.

    But Ebola may also be among the rapidly mutating types, like common cold or flu, in which case a new antiviral vaccine needs to be developed for each strain that comes along.

    Regardless, the first real antiviral vaccine will stop this epidemic pretty quickly. Now all that needs to be done is develop the vaccine. Thus far however, Ebola has not responded to AV treatments. Nasty stuff.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    A sanitation nurse caught it in Spain changing the infected Priest's adult diaper. And later she removed his belongings. She was following protocol and wearing the protective clothing provided by the hospital. Now some debate about the gear she wore and if it was worn properly or inadequate.

    Much of it is human error despite all the precautions. And there are accidents, too.

    A small object lesson, one I'm particularly alert to because for years, I was a clinical lab tech and went around in a big public hospital collecting blood samples to take back to the lab for blood chemistry, serology, etc.

    Think about this the next time someone does a blood draw on you, and watch the person doing the stick...

    The techie will apply the rubber tube tourniquet, then look for a suitable vein by tapping with the finger on your inner elbow area, right?

    Then the tech will swab the area with disinfectant, right?

    And then, just before the stick, the tech will again touch the vein area to "make sure" the vein is located, then stick you, right?

    I'd say 95% of techies or nurses or whomever, AFTER swabbing the area, then do another tap to help reassure that the vein has been located.

    That is a breach of clean protocol! If necessary to re-tap the area, okay, but then after this, the area should be re-swabbed. In other words, no tapping with the fingertip after swabbing. And this is what the tech is taught, but they quickly fall into a habit of re-tapping the area with the fingertip just before sticking.

    This is one teeny thing but you'll see it done to you. And if you think you need to complain, saying "Wait! You need to re-swab the area before sticking, after you've touched the area." you may be justified.

    Regardless, small breaches of protocol are human error and it doesn't take much.

    Back when I worked research for Gulf Oil Chemicals, we occasionally worked with radioactive tracer compounds, such as "tagging" a polymer mixture to trace its path. This was typically done with synthetic motor oils, where the oil would be run in a test engine, then the piston rings and valve seats would be carefully sliced away and a trace run to see whether the oil had reached those areas.

    Radioactive isotopes are pretty difficult to work with, and are very dangerous, as those here who've worked with them surely know. Not only can the radioactive element cause kidney damage, but these elements are usually metallic, and absorbing any metallic compound can damage liver and kidney even if it's not radioactive. A double whammy.

    And in the lab there were radiation monitors that would go off like fire alarms, and we also wore film badges. And even though you'd try to follow protocols, once in a great while you'd spill something or whatever and all hell would break loose, alarm buzzers and lockdown and decontamination procedures to follow. And try as you might, you'd still make a mistake (rarely) and here would go the alarm!

    But with things like organisms, there are no automatic alarms to warn when a protocol was breached. So if a protocol is broken, it's often not known to have occurred.

    Add to that the nurses or docs or whomever being nervous and maybe tired and stressed, and breaks can occur. "Stuff" happens.

    So these politically correct and politically driven top dogs like the head of CDC saying that an outbreak or spread is impossible are blowing smoke. Outbreaks can and do occur despite the best efforts against this.

    In an earlier post I said that I didn't think this Ebola problem would be a big factor here in the USA.

    As you know, I never edit my erroneous posts so they "disappear", but if necessary I change my mind and comment thusly. And I DO think this is a problem that needs ZERO political correctness but instead needs precise and major attention, with no beating around the bush and no tweaking for the potential of not being politically a good thing.

    The outbreak here CAN be fixed but it will require rapid and strong action. I however don't see the Obama regime wanting to do this. Arrgh...

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • centermass556centermass556 Senior Member Posts: 3,508 Senior Member
    I lost count, but aren't we up to Three now...With a scare in Ohio?
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    Sam: And our beloved president nominates a political hack lawyer to oversee the effort because it leaves the illusion he cares.
Sign In or Register to comment.
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Guns & Ammo stories delivered right to your inbox every week.