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While asleep . . . Where do you keep your SD weapon?

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  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,973 Senior Member
    I recently "ran the drill" at 0 dark 30 when my alarm panel went nuts, and I failed miserably. I have everything I need close, but when you wake up disoriented and have to act it may be different.

    Make a plan, and practice.

    The one thing that did not happen, my dogs going nuts, made me feel confident we did not have an intruder. I trust my dogs more than my alarm. It is a good thing I did not set off the perimeter claymores!

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,815 Senior Member
    twa wrote: »
    I damn sure am not waiting for the cops to arrive if there is someone in my house that is not supposed to be, right or wrong, the wife is calling 911 and I am clearing the house with 12 gauge and 00 buck. I will take my chances and I like my odds.

    I don't think anyone is advocating WAITING for the cops to arrive. I think they're saying call 911 and do what you got to do. As for clearing the house, my opinion is why leave the place (your bedroom) where you have the most control to go to the place (the rest of the house) where you have the least control unless you have to. I'm speaking here from the point of view a single person with no kids and who lives alone. About anything other than that changes the situation drastically.

    Plus, night time burglars are most likely going to head for where the most portable valuable goodies are kept...your bedroom. So likely they'll come to you.

    "Cowering" is a word that carries too much freight to be used in this context. "Waiting" may be more appropriate.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    N320AW wrote: »
    Originally Posted by knitepoet
    "No kids here (normally) Have what I need close enough, and my plan is none of your concerned or dammed business."

    This is a public forum! What in hell is THAT suppose to mean?

    What knite said was perfectly clear to most here, duh. I think that knite was crystal clear in his post.

    If I may paraphrase: "I don't want the general public to know my exact plans. So other than to speak generally of them, I prefer not to list the specifics where others may easily read them."

    Which I think is a valid and very reasonable posture (regarding which I may slightly disagree, but that's not the issue). What is the issue is that you posted a query about plans for nighttime self defense and then you jumped on the bones of at least two very smart and very longtime members when their plans or statements weren't precisely aligned with you.

    Disagreeing with a post is fine. Doing so rudely (unless you were personally slammed, which you were not) is over-reacting and has gotten you justifiably criticized.

    Now, responding to knite's post, yeah I think otherwise, for these reasons:

    Knite didn't give exact or precise info and few others here did. They simply said things like: "I have a pistol on the nightstand and my wife and I have a response plan to keep us safe till the cops get here." or similar.

    My disagreement with knite is that ANY member of the forum (most any, I guess) will be assumed to be a firearms owner, so "technically" a gang of serious plan-ahead crooks could get on this site, take the member names, and with some careful checking, find out who these people actually were and probably ascertain their addresses. And then plan their ninja-warrior, Speznaz veteran-led, armored and assault-weaponed major attack upon the home of the victim. (ha ha)

    With absolute respect to knite's wishes to remain "unknown" I think this is the real life situation... Unless I'm a big time gun shop owner with a well-publicized collection of valuable firearms or am otherwise a hot target -- I'm a millionaire and I have a huge mansion bulging with handy artworks to steal, plenty of cash, jewelry, furs, ritzy stuff to steal, maybe a brick of coke (like most NBA players, ha ha), I'm not someone who stands out or whose home stands out.

    Yeah, bad guys might pick my house to rob but it's likely such will be done meeny-miney fashion without much specific planning that's based on my specific home. If it's just guns they want, they're a lot more likely to find more keen guns in a rich person's home, plus more junk to steal.

    My point being that our posting occasional pics of a 1911 or AR will likely be something that the typical thief will never know exists, nor will our posting specific fight/flee/hide plans ever be seen by such thugs. Making high-tech internet searches or creating intricate home invasion plans just won't happen to people like us. Sure, high level thieves looking for specific jewelry or art works, or cash or drugs, yeah, they'll focus on a specific home. A Houston millionaire gal had her huge walk-in closet of clothes and jewelry highlighted on TV and she was promptly robbed and everything stolen, duh.

    But aside from a bunch of drugged-up crash and grab thugs seeing a nice home when they drive by and then saying "this one looks good", home invasions aren't normally planned carefully and what we post here will never be seen or regarded by such thugs.

    There are limits to this, of course -- taking photos of our gun collection and posting on Facebook is not advised.

    But I do disagree with knite about the hazard of posting comments about general preparation. Posting a diagram of the home that shows where stuff is kept, and a street map to our front door, yeah, that's stupid. But just generally discussing home defense plans, I think is okay.

    Regardless, I'm not gonna insult him, as you did. Back off a bit, okay, dude?
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    You judged my plan, skippy.

    Correct! And I loved the "skippy" thing.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    Alpha, I didn't know you were seeing someone, congrats dude.

    Zingo! And a rimshot!
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    shush wrote: »
    This;

    Or this;

    It depends on which side of the bed I am on.............. I have that kind of a marriage. :p

    Ya see, here in the Colonies, we've got these things called "guns" that reach out and touch at a distance. When you're within reach, you may have already lost. Which is why the idea of equalizer, y'know.

    But hey, you gotta go with the restrictions on personal freedom that are imposed upon you, I suppose.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Rivernymph wrote: »
    Hate to nitpick, Alpha, but according to Dictionary.com, you are waiting for an experience or occasion of extreme suffering, especially mental suffering. I recommend the cavalry.

    Hey, maybe with the "calvary" he's rehearsing for a passion play at the local church.
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,020 Senior Member
    There are some people here who don't understand tongue in cheek.

    Quit being so serious.

    This has to do with an old law enforcement joke, that if you have to shoot someone outside the house, make sure you drag them in before you call the police.

    sheeesh.

    Sorry Dan...my fault...my sarcasm detector was faulty...I still hear that so often from some folks I just started typing....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,185 Senior Member
    I have no gus and if I did have a gus, I wouldn't be able to hit anything with it.

    Just ask JerryBobCo. He's seen me miss lots of things with the guss's I don't even own.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Which one?

    Aw come on, you been flashing your gun to ole ladies until they faint in the Garden Club parking lot again........:jester:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,444 Senior Member
    I keep both of my machetes by the bedside table. When they break in I'll chop 'em up and serve them with fava beans and a nice Chianti.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    I don't think anyone is advocating WAITING for the cops to arrive. I think they're saying call 911 and do what you got to do. As for clearing the house, my opinion is why leave the place (your bedroom) where you have the most control to go to the place (the rest of the house) where you have the least control unless you have to. I'm speaking here from the point of view a single person with no kids and who lives alone. About anything other than that changes the situation drastically.

    Plus, night time burglars are most likely going to head for where the most portable valuable goodies are kept...your bedroom. So likely they'll come to you.

    "Cowering" is a word that carries too much freight to be used in this context. "Waiting" may be more appropriate.

    A very accurate assessment, I think. Most important is the "waiting" designation in place of "cowering."
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,776 Senior Member
    I'd want rice pilaf and Beaujolais with that.
    Shut up-----KAREN; OK Cynthia
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 11,068 Senior Member
    Like BigDan I also had an alarm failure a while back. I jumped up all but ran to the alarm box to shut it off turning lights on as I went.

    I did grab my equalizer but didnt clear the hallway or livingroom on the way to the alarm box. I also forgot that I had a remote for the alarm on my night stand. Epic failure if you didnt know I was unconcerned cause the little dog didnt leave her bed and wasnt barking her head off. What we have and where will remain our secret. I have no kids in the house so that is not a concern.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,020 Senior Member
    "Most plans rarely survive first contact with the enemy..."
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • timctimc Senior Member Posts: 6,684 Senior Member
    I have one of two pistols with in easy reach, both have lights and lasers, an alarm system and two small but very noisy dogs. The vault houses additional weapons which is also in very close proximity and also serves as a panic room if needed. You will get the drop on me if I don't hear you, the dogs don't bark and the alarm doesn't go off but there isn't a lot of chances all will fall into place all at once! Did I mention the wife has her system set up too?
    timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
    AKA: Former Founding Member
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    "Most plans rarely survive first contact with the enemy..."

    That's a pretty interesting quote but I'm not so certain how accurate it is. I guess it depends upon how carefully you've planned.
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,259 Senior Member
    How did you manage to do that to your baseball bats????

    I believe that you used to trip yourselves up with the hockey bat and there was a fear you might cut each other with the edge of the cricket stick.

    So a round style seemed the safest bet for the Thirteen Colonies. :tooth:

    history-of-the-cricket-bat-wiki-cricketsouthafrica.jpg



    .......Shush what exactly is going on here? I know Piers is getting pummeled, and that is awesome, but is the "pitcher" allowed to throw at the "batter".


    The Great Pillock Piers was a bit harsh about how England where coping, playing against Australia.

    The very fine Aussie fast bowler Brett Lee gave him an over to think about.
    I know jack about Cricket.

    The essence of the game is to knock over the three sticks behind the batsman with the cricket ball ( akin to half a house brick with the corners taken off.) or any bits of batsman that fly off...........
    eg. hat, bat, gloves or his unconscious body, if he stands in the way.

    P.S. I understand this is in Austrailia, but I thought you would still be in the know.

    Yes, same game.

    Just played by Gentlemen over here and not sheep worriers. :devil:


    PS.

    Brett Lee in his prime;

    If it hits you, it does smart just a small amount.


    samzhere wrote: »
    shush wrote: »
    ....It depends on which side of the bed I am on.............. I have that kind of a marriage. :p

    But hey, you gotta go with the restrictions on personal freedom that are imposed upon you, I suppose.

    After 37 years?
    I ain't got no '' personal freedom'', although I am asked which side I want occasionally. :whip2:
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,395 Senior Member
    For a plan to have reasonable assurances of succeeding, the enemy has to be reasonably predictable. That means, you either have to have a predictable enemy, or a predictable pathway for the enemy to proceed. Otherwise, you have to be ready to completely modify your plan.
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,020 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    That's a pretty interesting quote but I'm not so certain how accurate it is. I guess it depends upon how carefully you've planned.

    Originally attributed to Helmuth Karl Bernhard Graf von Moltke (1800-1891) - Chief of staff for the German Army....

    After being in the Emergency Planning business for many years, I can attest to the accuracy of Moltke the Elders observation...most well thought out plans seem fine...it's when you add people to the equation that things go to hell....Mr. Murphy LOVES a well thought out plan...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    I'd want rice pilaf and Beaujolais with that.

    You can want in one hand and poop in the other and see which one Clean lets fill up the quickest.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    Originally attributed to Helmuth Karl Bernhard Graf von Moltke (1800-1891) - Chief of staff for the German Army....

    After being in the Emergency Planning business for many years, I can attest to the accuracy of Moltke the Elders observation...most well thought out plans seem fine...it's when you add people to the equation that things go to hell....Mr. Murphy LOVES a well thought out plan...

    Thanks for the attribution.

    Upon first reading it sound very valid but if you, for example, look at the Allies' plan during Gulf War 1 & 2, the overall plan worked nicely. Naturally there were exceptions.

    So maybe the general overall idea might best be that your plan needs to not be too rigid or compartmentalized, and instead a fairly wide and flexible strategy that allows for you to improvise the details and not get stuck into a corner, both figuratively and literally.

    Adding to this... a casual example, not meant to be taken as genuine tactics, but if you're awakened and want to check out your house, you would sensibly take all reasonable precautions and not rush into a room without first checking options. The idea would be to not lock yourself into a no-exit sort of position, per the "fools rush in" scenario.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    shush wrote: »
    I believe that you used to trip yourselves up with the hockey bat and there was a fear you might cut each other with the edge of the cricket stick.

    So a round style seemed the safest bet for the Thirteen Colonies. :tooth:

    Over here, it's known as a "baseball" bat.

    I had a good pal who, when in school, played the "silly" mid-off position for his college team, Univ College of Wales. He said that during a cricket match, in the stands, there would be upwards of, oh, twelve to fifteen spectators.
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,249 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Thanks for the attribution.

    Upon first reading it sound very valid but if you, for example, look at the Allies' plan during Gulf War 1 & 2, the overall plan worked nicely. Naturally there were exceptions.

    So maybe the general overall idea might best be that your plan needs to not be too rigid or compartmentalized, and instead a fairly wide and flexible strategy that allows for you to improvise the details and not get stuck into a corner, both figuratively and literally.

    Adding to this... a casual example, not meant to be taken as genuine tactics, but if you're awakened and want to check out your house, you would sensibly take all reasonable precautions and not rush into a room without first checking options. The idea would be to not lock yourself into a no-exit sort of position, per the "fools rush in" scenario.

    The French had a wonderful plan to stop the Germans prior to WWII, the called it the "Maginot Line". Would have worked perfectly too, in WWI! To quote Agent K from the Men in Black, "A person is smart, people are dumb, panicky animals..." This is where plans tend to go awry. That and the enemy not doing what you expect them to.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,815 Senior Member
    The French had a wonderful plan to stop the Germans prior to WWII, the called it the "Maginot Line". Would have worked perfectly too, in WWI! To quote Agent K from the Men in Black, "A person is smart, people are dumb, panicky animals..." This is where plans tend to go awry. That and the enemy not doing what you expect them to.

    It was a poor plan and made way too many assumptions. I'm a "Strategist" according to Myers-Briggs. I believe in plans, so long as there is some competent person making the plan. Plans may change after first contact, but they will never go away if the plan is strong enough. Even if it's not strong, a plan is better than no plan, IMO.

    I remember the "Duck and Cover" plan practiced back in the 50s. Inadequate, sure, but there simply was no alternative for school kids. It was the best they could do in a horrible situation.

    It wasn't intended to protect kids at Ground Zero, but for kids on the outside of a nuclear blast, it was better than hundreds of school kids stampeding.

    A good leader can overcome a poor plan in many cases. So long as there's room for change. The French didn't have a strong leader or a back-up plan, and were very rigid in the execution of the Battle of France following the invasion. So they crumbled.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    It was a poor plan and made way too many assumptions. I'm a "Strategist" according to Myers-Briggs. I believe in plans, so long as there is some competent person making the plan. Plans may change after first contact, but they will never go away if the plan is strong enough. Even if it's not strong, a plan is better than no plan, IMO.

    I remember the "Duck and Cover" plan practiced back in the 50s. Inadequate, sure, but there simply was no alternative for school kids. It was the best they could do in a horrible situation.

    It wasn't intended to protect kids at Ground Zero, but for kids on the outside of a nuclear blast, it was better than hundreds of school kids stampeding.

    A good leader can overcome a poor plan in many cases. So long as there's room for change. The French didn't have a strong leader or a back-up plan, and were very rigid in the execution of the Battle of France following the invasion. So they crumbled.

    You made the point I was trying to make, but you did it better.

    Just because some bad plans went awry, that's no reason to not make a smart, flexible plan.

    The "duck and cover" as you say wasn't to protect kids at ground zero or near to it. It was to minimize the major source of injuries of people nearby a huge explosion, nuclear or conventional: flying glass and debris.

    And yeah, the Maginot line was stupid for WW2 tactics. I've not read extensively about this but I'd bet that there were plenty of other French military who wanted a fast, mobile tank corps instead of a fortress mentality, but were overruled by the aristocratic nobility-background upper echelon.

    Another terrible example of bad planning that was pushed to excess is in the Battle of the Somme. Despite early feedback that the Brit troops were being savagely cut to shreds by the German machine guns (the Germans had quickly learned the "tap" tactic and used it to terrible results), the upper class twit Brit generals kept pushing the troops onto the killing field.

    Of course, nobody here (I think) would have zero plans or zero contingency setup and just muddle around in despair. That would be stupid. What the "enemy contact" statement warns about is that totally rigid plans without any leeway or room for adjustment are questionable.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,246 Senior Member
    Hardware is readily available, yet secure. That goes for "all the time" not just at night

    Not going to give away the plan, but there is a major chokepoint with good cover and great concealment that divides the house in two. On the non-sleeping side of that chokepoint is all the stuff that a burglar can keep. On the sleeping side is the Kid, the wife, the gunsafe, computers, tax records, etc... The general plan is protect the chokepoint. There are layers of defense outside (Cameras, lights, landscaping, alarm) and layers on the inside.

    And yes- I have had an attempted home invasion in the middle of the night. And yes, it does make one paranoid about that kind of stuff.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    Well, I'm not getting into this argument, I can make enough of those myself, but I agree with Jayhawker, there's a plan for every difference situation.

    Also, My SD weapon is well I'm almost wearing it. And in the day time it doesn't stay there. I put it in my concealed carry place when I get out of bed. That 9mm S&W is close to me 24-7.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,020 Senior Member
    Moltke the Elders observation does not mean that having a plan is a bad idea....simply that you should not expect everything to go as planned and be flexible enough to deal with it. Also have to remember "the enemy" (whether it be a home invader or an infantry division) have their own plans....which might not (and probably won't) compliment yours.
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
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