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While asleep . . . Where do you keep your SD weapon?

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  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Sam the French did have a good Tank Corps, but foolishly dispersed them with infantry in small amounts and not as an Armored fighting unit together to do battles with the Germans who concentrated armor for their Blitzkrieg tactics.

    Plus as noted, they had antiquated idys about warfare and were getting ready for a WWI static front using fixed fortifications along a lot of their border with Germany. It (Maginot Line) was never completed in the Low Countries, so as you know they Germans simply bypassed it (at first) through the Ardennes Forest.

    They had terrible leadership and poor Command and Control Communications and they still could have stopped the Krauts further north along with the Brits, but were slow and stubbornly refused to follow any plan except their own to react.

    The Maginot Line was pretty elaborate and could have done much better if they were fully manned and completed, but they couldn't have remained in a fixed site even if they held them off. I toured a Museum of one in France near Colmar near the Rhine River.

    No more than we can plan to stay in one place in a home shootout....be flexible and have fallback plans BCD&E..........
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,020 Senior Member
    An example of a bad plan.... Commander of Polish Lancers...." See those German tanks? We're going to attack them....on horse back.... with spears...." Reply from staff "Oh hell yes! It'll be awesome!"
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Have zero idea who Moltke is but hey...

    Yeah, Big, the story of the essentially non-defense of France is complex and of course many books have been written about it, but the bottom line is that the French were still looking at 19th century tactics.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,020 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Have zero idea who Moltke is but hey...

    He's the guy who said the thing about plans....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,245 Senior Member
    I like the way that plan sounds. Did you develop that plan as a result of the attempted invasion?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Partially. Different house, but I took setting up a plan a lot more seriously after not having one and having to come up with one on the fly.

    Another thing to think of. Remote controlled lights (being able to turn on the lights in the living room from your bedroom), and strategic use of decorative mirrors can really help out your plans.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Have zero idea who Moltke is but hey...

    Yeah, Big, the story of the essentially non-defense of France is complex and of course many books have been written about it, but the bottom line is that the French were still looking at 19th century tactics.

    Well no, they (The French/others) were looking at WWI tactics of a static front as in trench warfare when WWII started. When WWI started they were thinking 1800s, but things and tactics got nasty for all sides soon after that. Airplanes, Machine Guns and Mustard Gas and the Gentlemanly way of fighting a war was discarded with maybe a few brief Holiday interludes.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    He's the guy who said the thing about plans....

    Duh on me. I'd read that and it went in one eye and out the ear without sticking in the brain at all. Thanks.
  • North ForestNorth Forest Member Posts: 356 Member
    Dog will bark at anything, .45 is within arm's reach, shotgun is under the bed on my side.
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    A static defense is only as good as the people manning it. Constantinople had great walls but not enough men manning them when it finally fell to the Turks. Of course the French didn't encourage thinking they shot soldiers during WW I to "encourage the others." DeGaulle was a tank commander during WW I and tried to get the upper echelon to change but to no avail. "A good plan violently executed now is far superior to a perfect plan next week." Or something like that anyway.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    Sam,

    Another example of Moltke's admonition would be what my father explained to me about coordinated infantry attacks, in Korea. He was a 1st Sergeant, meaning he was the company commander's right hand man, and frequently found himself in 'de facto' command of the company. One case in particular was a failed attack on Hill 290, a hill that was fought over extensively in the general area of Pork Chop Hill and Old Baldy. He and I discussed this action many times in his last years, and I think I understand what happened well enough to describe it fairly accurately.

    The assault was to be executed by three platoons, with 2nd Platoon (commanded by a 19 yo Sergeant) going 'up the middle' and 1st and 3rd Platoons (commanded by 2nd Lieutenants) attacking the flanks. The first thing that went wrong was that a couple of tanks unexpectedly became available at the last minute, and were brought in for static fire support at the base of the hill. They immediately ran over and cut all the telephone lines to the company commander, who was to call artillery strikes and P-51 napalm strikes on enemy strong points, as they became known to the platoon leaders. Since the Chinese always jammed the walkie-talkie channels, there was no communication to the company command post, except by runners. OK, fine, no big surprise there - watches were synchronized and everybody knew what they were supposed to do, as long as each platoon was able to carry out it's individual mission.

    Unfortunately, the Chinese manning the hill were very experienced and immediately diagnosed the strategy. Their mortars were pre-zeroed and they let loose with everything they had, at the proper time. The flanking platoons got pinned down and delayed for several minutes. Meanwhile, 2nd Platoon, with the 19 yo Sergeant commanding, plowed straight up the hill, anyway, believing that the other two platoons would be doing the same. They sustained heavy casualties, but a few men actually made it to the top, but were unable to hold it, without support from the flanks. They were forced to retreat.

    All efforts to re-establish communications between the platoons had failed for just long enough to ruin the timing of the attack, and although the green 'second louies' leading the flanking platoons were correct in assessing that the attack was probablydoomed to failure, due to confusion about what was actually happening, they did not adequately support the retreating platoon. Had there been any communication, fire support might have been effective enough that each platoon could have made adjustments that could have actually resulted in taking the hill, or at the very least, reduced casualties during the retreat. As it turned out, while the 2nd platoon leader did continue his mission bravely, had he been in communication with the company CP, he might have been able to pause in his advance for just long enough to let the flanks catch up.

    The point, I guess, is that all plans are subject to Murphy's (Moltke's?) Law, and simple is good. In the end, you have to understand that if the plan fails, you have to 'gut it out' and hope for the best.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Thanks for the excellent account, bis! I'm sure that everyone appreciated hearing of this tale of combat.
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    I have a very effective alarm system, two Chiwawa's with very good ears.If they start going bat crazy, I wake up, grab the necessary tools, and basically stay put
    until I figure things out. So far,all Chiwawa alarms have been critters outside,kinda PITA but I'll put up with it because it seems to work. We do have motion sensor
    lighting out side, so far critters haven't set them off. If the Chiwawa and lights go off at the same time,well, I'll let you know how that turns out
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    Juliet, Queen Of Dogs, and I live alone. So, no kids to worry about. Outside lighting is controlled by motion sensors. Inside, a liberal sprinkling of nightlights. My rooms are dim, but never dark. No flashlight needed to see and target The Uninvited. A S&W 386 Sc/S is in the nightstand. Cellphone is there too. One step away, literally the width of the nightstand, is the closet door, behind which is an AK47 Underfolder, nicely underfolded, and a Remington 1100 12 gauge.

    If something goes bump in the night, Juliet goes instantly from a sound sleep to DEFCON 1. To keep us both safe (Juliet is a Dachshund/Chihuahua and would not fare well in a fight with The Uninvited) my plan is to call 9-1-1 while hunkering down in my bedroom. If The Uninvited is already at my bedroom door, I'll settle for my revolver, but, if I feel I have a few seconds to spare, I'll grab one of the long arms in the closet. Either way, I'll be down on the far side of the bed, aiming at my door.

    There is one more piece of SD/HD equipment on the nightstand - one that would handicap me should I venture forth from my bedroom to engage The Uninvited - my ear muffs. Multiple discharges of firearms indoors - especially rifle and shotgun fire, is potentially sufficient to render one permanently deaf. Not a happy prospect. By choosing to fort-up in my room instead of sallying-forth to face an unknown situation, the only sense I need is sight. If that door opens, and it's The Uninvited, all Hell breaks loose. And with my ears saved along with the rest of me, I'll be able to hear about it in the morning. Enjoy.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,815 Senior Member
    K.I.S.S. is the thing. And it's something the Japanese military in WW 2 never learned. They had these elaborate plans requiring all parts coming together like a jigsaw puzzle, and lacked the ability to improvise. That's why they never won a battle after Corregidor.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • HvyMaxHvyMax Senior Member Posts: 1,786 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Like CPJ, I too have kids in the house. If the kids happen to be in my room... fine, I will wait out the cavalry. If not, I am going after whatever it is at least until I can get the kids in a safe area.

    Same situation here. I also have lights mounted to my entire HD collection. How many people shoot their own kids every year thinking they are home in bed? At least now my oldest two are part of the fire team.
    Wal Mart where the discriminating white trash shop.
    Paddle faster!!! I hear banjos.
    Reason for editing: correcting my auto correct
  • SlanteyedshootistSlanteyedshootist Senior Member Posts: 3,947 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    K.I.S.S. is the thing. And it's something the Japanese military in WW 2 never learned. They had these elaborate plans requiring all parts coming together like a jigsaw puzzle, and lacked the ability to improvise. That's why they never won a battle after Corregidor.

    And here I thought it was because they couldn't see the forest because of the trees. Now if trees grew horizontally...
    The answer to 1984 is 1776
  • KSDeputyKSDeputy Member Posts: 55 Member
    Next to the bed. A S&W 4513 TSW.
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    A plan gives you vision of the desired outcome.....

    :that:

    I live in a house with three other adults, none of whom are gun people. The layout of the house means that whether coming through the front door or back door, you have to walk past my bedroom to get to the other bedrooms in the house. My plan is simple, PID whatever is making the noise, if it's supposed to be there, tell it to stop being so loud, if it's not supposed to be there, deal with the situation from there.

    If they want to run, have at it, I'd much rather deal with just fixing a window/door than all the hassle with getting the courts involved, if they want to be nice and wait for the cops we can do that too......either way they better pick one of those options quick.

    As I've said before, my friends and loved ones are more important than your friends and loved ones and I am more important than you. If you threaten the safety of my friends, my loved ones, or myself, I will shoot you. A lot.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    K.I.S.S. is the thing. And it's something the Japanese military in WW 2 never learned. They had these elaborate plans requiring all parts coming together like a jigsaw puzzle, and lacked the ability to improvise. That's why they never won a battle after Corregidor.

    The Japanese were extremely inflexible and philosophical in their approach to modern battle plans.
    Epic fail.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,815 Senior Member
    I've never heard of that, either. And we all would if it happened. Kids get shot, mostly by "unloaded" guns or by shooting themselves but I can't remember a kid getting shot by a defender in a SD scenario.

    I almost ran over a kid by backing over him in my 70 Mustang back in the day. He was on a tricycle and rode behind my car while I was warming it up. Something told me to not back up right before I pulled out, so I got out of the car and there he was. Instinct.

    EDIT: Actually, I do remember someone shooting a kid who was attempting to break in his own house because he'd misplaced his key.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    I've never heard of that, either. And we all would if it happened.....

    It happens a couple times a year. Here is the most recent that I've seen in the news.

    http://www.wtop.com/41/3682709/Police-Virginia-deputy-shot-daughter-crashed-car


    Not a very common occurrence, but I still think that a light is mandatory on an HD gun.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,815 Senior Member
    My HD weapons do not have lights. I'm not even sure if they have a rail. Got to depend on my hall lights, I guess.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    I can't bring myself to mount lights on my sidearms, and alas, I know nothing of home defense, it is all personal defense to me, whether I am on the street or at home.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • HvyMaxHvyMax Senior Member Posts: 1,786 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Ok maybe not ZERO but in a country with 330,000,000+ people a few incident of anything a year does not move the needle at all. Again I believe the concept is sound and my HD weapons carry lights, I just not a big fan of unsupported assertions. An anti reads that statement and it becomes fact because it came from a gun site... It's the same type of thinking that gives us Obama's standard reasoning for his stupidity, "If it saves only ONE life..." :bang:

    It may only be a few every year but I would hate to be that parent. Especially with teenagers who may have girl/boyfriends sneaking around. Also most of the the instances I hear about involved police. Just like we teach in Hunter safety most accidents are by the most "experienced". I never said it should be a law just my personal choice for my personal reasons. I personally choose to minimize my chances of being"that" parent.
    Wal Mart where the discriminating white trash shop.
    Paddle faster!!! I hear banjos.
    Reason for editing: correcting my auto correct
  • Elk creekElk creek Senior Member Posts: 6,550 Senior Member
    Funny, when I was a teenager we had guns in the house. I knew what dad did when he heard something outside trying to get inside. That was enough for me to ASK if I could be out late (for a good reason). After I went to college I came home for thanksgiving a day early to surprise them ..... I used my key opens the door a nd started to make coffee. I heard dad get up and from the bedroom his 870 made "that" sound as a round was chambered. I started yelling who I was quick....MY FAULT I didn't ID my self after I came in. At the time he was a 18 year cop. Kids bear responsibility too!
    Aim higher, or get a bigger gun.
  • HvyMaxHvyMax Senior Member Posts: 1,786 Senior Member
    Exactly. Teenagers are unpredictable. I have 3 as well as whatever friends they have over. Better safe than sorry!
    Wal Mart where the discriminating white trash shop.
    Paddle faster!!! I hear banjos.
    Reason for editing: correcting my auto correct
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    I could never have gotten away with sneaking in and out, My parents would never have stood for it, I did My sneaking when I visited relatives, they had large estates with guest cottages and that made it easy.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,770 Senior Member
    Our youngest always makes a lot of noise when he stops by and comes in esp if he thinks I'm taking a nap.
    Shut up-----KAREN; OK Cynthia
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 12,828 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    Our youngest always makes a lot of noise when he stops by and comes in esp if he thinks I'm taking a nap with Clean:love:.

    Fixed it for you:jester:
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • MerlinMerlin New Member Posts: 8 New Member
    I have never understood the concept of "racking a round" with a pump shotgun. If someone is bold enough to attempt a break-in, it's likely the sound of a rack would not deter them, and would only alert them to your location. In real-life shooting scenario(s), it has also been proven, that "short racking" can happen, in a stressful situation. I do not have children in the house, so that's not a concern. If I had a shotgun for HD, I would keep one in the tube, tang safety....they can wait for the flash. I will "hunker down" in my bedroom, call 911, and leave the phone on. Leaving the phone on ensures a recording, in case it goes to court. I have a clear field of fire to my bedroom door.....I know the layout of my home....the BG doesn't. In any event....do what ya gotta. Stay Safe, my friends. (P.S. I, also would not choose to divulge WHAT I have, or IF I have weapons in my home).
    “Come if you must, but only if you must. For the day you find yourself upon my step, will surely be the night you find peace along Jordan's edge”.
    Author Unknown
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