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NYPD Officers attacked by axe-wielding Muslim guy

JayhawkerJayhawker ModeratorPosts: 16,920 Senior Member
This is the most reputable news source I could find for this incident....

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/police-shoots-kills-man-ax-queens-article-1.1984914

Congratulations to the officers who shot this dirtbag full of holes and rendered him room temperature. Condolences to the injured officers, hope they get well soon....

A few observations:

The Eastern newspaper refers to the weapon as a "hatchet" and you can plainly see that the guy is armed with a short axe (an Estwing actually....a really good axe)... In an attack the latter is way more deadly than the former.

If someone is running at me swinging an axe, he's bought and paid for....he does not have to hit me or my buddies to "provoke" a response.

You will notice AGAIN,that the NYPD officers involved in this shooting, managed to put an innocent bystander in the hospital...in critical condition... I just don't get it...I know there are a lot of people in NYC but it seems like every time these guys open fire they are stacking up innocent bystanders like cordwood. More range time? More focused training? The city has to be loosing their ass paying for all the folks NYPD shoots inadvertently.... I've got no issue with the 19 rounds that were discharged, but somewhere along the line it's pretty obvious that these officers are missing that " YOU are responsible for each and every round you discharge" part of the class...
Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"

Replies

  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Many "rust belt" city cops rarely shoot their sidearms. They have maybe a yearly qualification and that's it. So yeah, they're totally out of practice. I'm not saying the cops aren't good LEOs but being gun-ho about guns is frowned upon, I'm guessing.

    Even the cops aren't "into" a pro-gun culture in NuuYawk and similar places.

    Further down south and southwest, cops are very much into shooting and practice all the time. Some Houston cops I know, plus a couple of county deputies, and so on, regularly have money-bet competitions among themselves, and earn big bragging rights among their buddies.

    Houston cops are involved in shootouts all the time and you rarely get bystanders wounded.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,738 Senior Member
    Get a guy coming at you with a hatchet and who's already struck two fellow officers in a high-population area, and you're going to get stray rounds. Especially rookies, which they were in this case. Not a good thing, but it happens. NO amount of training will overcome this, where the mission is law enforcement as opposed to shooting. Hard fact, but there it is. Collateral damage is going to happen.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Many "rust belt" city cops rarely shoot their sidearms. They have maybe a yearly qualification and that's it. So yeah, they're totally out of practice. I'm not saying the cops aren't good LEOs but being gun-ho about guns is frowned upon, I'm guessing.

    Even the cops aren't "into" a pro-gun culture in NuuYawk and similar places.

    Further down south and southwest, cops are very much into shooting and practice all the time. Some Houston cops I know, plus a couple of county deputies, and so on, regularly have money-bet competitions among themselves, and earn big bragging rights among their buddies.

    Houston cops are involved in shootouts all the time and you rarely get bystanders wounded.

    Yeah, well iffin you're a cop in Houston you better know how to shoot or you may be worm dirt in short order. The cops here in this wide spot in the road make a pretty fair accounting of their marksmanship. My son in law's a desk jocky now and doesn't get near the range time he did when out on patrol. But he's still a damn good shot. Lots of his buddies too. Anyway, also, when you've got wall to wall people you're going to have some friendly fire accidents.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    You crazy Texans! Gotta love them.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • Fat BillyFat Billy Senior Member Posts: 1,813 Senior Member
    A dead terrorist is a good terrorist. :applause: Later,
    Fat Billy

    Recoil is how you know primer ignition is complete.
  • roadkingroadking Senior Member Posts: 3,056 Senior Member
    It's NY...there will now be a ban on hatchets.

    Matt
    Support your local Scouts!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    If it walks like a duck.....................

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/10/24/ax-attack-terror-connection/
    "Thompson, whose Facebook page includes a passage from the Koran and a photograph of a masked militant, is being investigated for possible terrorist connections."
    "Thompson allegedly called for a revolution on American soil on his Facebook page, but the messages were no longer visible early Friday.

    "America's military is strong abroad, but they have never faced an internal mass revolt,” Thompson posted on the social media site. “They are weaker at home. We are scattered and decentralized, we can use this as an advantage. They are centralized and strong, which can be exploited as a weakness. Think of a swarm of bees (negroes) that surround and attack an elephant (America) to death."

    The suspect also called for guerilla warfare.

    "Helicopters, big military will be useless on their own soil,” another post read. “They will not be able to defeat our people if we use guerilla warfare. Attack their weak flanks ... If you get wounded who cares. If you die who cares. Eventually they will surrender and then the war will be over."
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,035 Senior Member
    roadking wrote: »
    It's NY...there will now be a ban on hatchets.

    Matt

    I can just imagine what Sen. Chuckie Schumer will come up with for a law that will stop folks from using "Assault Hatchets".
    I have an Estwing hatchet with a long handle that I use for elk. It has never been used in a crime, it has no serial number and I will not register it with the BATFE.
  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,035 Senior Member
    Thank Allah most of these fanatics are morons (it might actually be a necessary condition for believing that crap). Good riddance.
    Yes indeed, good riddance. But unfortunatly, there are MILLIONS more crazy Muslims out there.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    Let's see, now - mass shooting at Ft. Hood, a beheading in OK, shooting an unarmed soldier in Ottawa, vehicle attack on soldiers in NY, and now a tomahawk raid on police in NY. So far, no sign of any type of terrorism that will be acknowledged by our ever-vigilant Commander-In-Chief. Looks like the Ebola strategy is working - if you don't admit you were caught flat-footed in your preparation, it just never happened.

    Looks like a good excuse to go practice more, for CCWs, if not for police everywhere.

    And as for the friendly fire accident in the NY incident, I can kind of agree with Gene L on this one. But another NY incident injured nine people, by a dozen or so officers who never even hit the bad guy, before one brave guy just walked up and shot him in the head, from about 5 ft.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,920 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    And as for the friendly fire accident in the NY incident, I can kind of agree with Gene L on this one. But another NY incident injured nine people, by a dozen or so officers who never even hit the bad guy, before one brave guy just walked up and shot him in the head, from about 5 ft.

    I understand the whole collateral damage thing - and it would be understandable if it happened occasionally, opening fire in large crowds of people lends itself to bad things happening....BUT NYPD seems to have a penchant for stacking up civilians in recent history...in one case after opening fire on a mentally disturbed man (subsequently found to be unarmed) and shooting two women, one of the officers decided it was time to tase the guy...there is obviously a problem in the decision making department....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Fat BillyFat Billy Senior Member Posts: 1,813 Senior Member
    At least in New York they can't hide the hatchet in a 32oz cup. :banned: Later,
    Fat Billy

    Recoil is how you know primer ignition is complete.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,738 Senior Member
    Not to defend NYPD for poor marksmanship, but in reality, marksmanship is an infrequently-used skill, there is no backyard practice and funds aren't available for proper training. NYPD has 34,500 cops, and the other LE agencies, like the Port Police, etc., increases that number by a lot.

    Police accidental shootings make good copy, but in fact, the number is pretty small. Just noteworthy. Were I the mayor of NYC or Police Commissioner, I'd have increased training...if I had the money and if the motivation was there to train. Most cops go for years and maybe a career without using their guns, and PD agencies increasingly rely of "Specialized" LEO training when there is an armed conflict...like SWAT. The uniforms pull back, when they can, and call for the specialists. So they get a little stale. And generally, a LOT of cops do not like to shoot. I saw this at my small SO...more than a few saw it as a skill they would likely never use and a "test" of whether they stayed employed or not. They hated qualification. One guy actually prayed that he'd pass the test, and this in spite of the fact that we supplied an unlimited amount of ammo to our deputies to practice with. I seriously doubt NYPD has the budget for this, but I might be wrong.

    In Ottawa (not NYC) I listened to the tapes and the good guys shot at least 24 times. How many times they hit him, or how many shooters there were, I'd like to know. But having done a stint in combat, I know, too, that when in stressful shooting situations, aim generally goes out the window...even with trained and combat honed troops. Can't make the nerves settle down and search for that front sight if you qualify once a year.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,610 Senior Member
    I'm with Gene in that I think rookies (sort of) get a pass in this situation. I'm also with Jayhawker in that NYPD does seem to have more than it's share of these 'accidents' happening of late. So there it is, I agree with both of you...I'm officially a politician. :bang:
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Funny as heck, lots of opinions and zero facts, the NYCPD has a state of the art range that was fully modernized and paid for by the FBI, so their agents would have a place to practice too. I did lots of training with JTF as well as remedial teaching and I did my best to get line troops into serious training not just qualification.
    Two boxes of ammo a year is not enough.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,738 Senior Member
    Good that they have a range, but they should have more than one...35K cops can't possibly use a single range, no matter how modern.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    Good that they have a range, but they should have more than one...35K cops can't possibly use a single range, no matter how modern.

    Therein lies the true rub, we set up a satellite range with few training aids but great instructors and it ran late into the night, in NYCPD there was / is no emphasis on line troops doing more than qualification every year, and depending on ESU units for support, and most of those guys carried non approved supplemental 1911s.
    You do not get great results from basic accademy firearms training and two boxes of ammo a year.

    I think it was P.C. Benjamin Ward that re-tasked lots of desk jockeys back into the field, and most of them could NOT shoot, we did however have an impressive 100% rate of success.
    No one ever failed to qualify after our training classes, many took up competitive shooting.

    Those were the days of six shooters transitioning to Glocks, most line Officers carried the venerable S&W M-10, I was shooting an incredible amount of Federal +P department approved ammo. I saw perhaps 3 squib loads out of all of that ammo.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
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