Federal Aluminum??....

olesniperolesniper Senior MemberPosts: 3,759 Senior Member
....hadn't seen these. Found 1 box, at WW, in another town. 115gr. 9mm for $9.97 a box. Wonder if they are any better that Blazers?

Also picked up some of Winchester White Box in 124gr. for $15.77. Gander Mountain wants $19.99 for them and $49.99 for a 150 r.d box.



1026141128a_zpsfba84969.jpg
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: For I carry a .308 and not a .270
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Replies

  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    Interesting. Wonder if they're Berdan primed or Boxer primed?
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 4,520 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Interesting. Wonder if they're Berdan primed or Boxer primed?

    It wouldn't matter, I wouldn't advise you to try to reload aluminum cases, there a one shot case.

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,259 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Interesting. Wonder if they're Berdan primed or Boxer primed?



    3min in.

    cjp wrote: »..... Oh dear God, I've admitted to liking something Limey.I'll never hear the end of this.

    Jayhawker wrote: »...But seriously Shush....

    Big Chief wrote: ».........walking around with a greasy butt ain't no fun, though!

     


     

  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    jaywapti wrote: »
    It wouldn't matter, I wouldn't advise you to try to reload aluminum cases, there a one shot case.

    JAY

    I never claimed to want to reload them; only curious as to the priming method. I'm crazy, but I'm not batscat crazy. I'm well aware that aluminum cases are unsuitable for reloading, just as the steel cases are unsuitable for reloading.
    If they were Berdan primed, that would/could possibly mean that the Berdan primers would be offered for sale for all that foreign BRASS ammunition so primed that is impossible to obtain primers for reloading. I have three different sized punches for removing the Berdan primers from the case; they go through one of the flash holes and punch the primer out. Problem is, I have no reliable source of primers. A LOT of milsurp foreign brass case ammo is Berdan primed. It would be nice to have a DOMESTIC source for those primers.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,578 Senior Member
    Nice video - boxer primed for those who don't wanna sit through it (but well worth watching).

    Dumb, stupid, and NOOOOOOB question: What would be involved to re-assemble the two rounds disassembled in the video? Is it as simple as pouring the powder back in and pressing the bullets back in? Or would there be more to it?
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 7,038 Senior Member
    olesniper wrote: »
    ....hadn't seen these. Found 1 box, at WW, in another town. 115gr. 9mm for $9.97 a box. Wonder if they are any better that Blazers?

    Probably samey-same. Both companies owned by ATK.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 10,925 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    Probably samey-same. Both companies owned by ATK.

    That is what I thought when I saw this also.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,259 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    A LOT of milsurp foreign brass case ammo is Berdan primed. It would be nice to have a DOMESTIC source for those primers.



    Have you seen this;


    A bit over the top labour wise but may save the day.

    We used to have lots of fun, berdan primer wise,, but at least we had a fair range of choice.

    cjp wrote: »..... Oh dear God, I've admitted to liking something Limey.I'll never hear the end of this.

    Jayhawker wrote: »...But seriously Shush....

    Big Chief wrote: ».........walking around with a greasy butt ain't no fun, though!

     


     

  • KENFU1911KENFU1911 Senior Member Posts: 1,052 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    I'm well aware that aluminum cases are unsuitable for reloading, just as the steel cases are unsuitable for reloading.
    .

    :uhm: OK...Why Mike?????...............
    My idea of a warning shot is when the 2nd bad guy watches his 1st buddy go down....
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,967 Senior Member
    Well, if I see some I will try them.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    KENFU1911 wrote: »
    :uhm: OK...Why Mike?????...............

    Steel cases are coated with either lacquer or some other nasty stuff that will, most likely, make them stick in the resizing die. Steel cases and steel dies do NOT play well together; the steel case will stick, and normal methods of extracting the case don't always work. Steel cases, if they are managed to be resized in a resizing die probably will give the firearm hell trying to chamber it; steel cases don't re-form like brass and tend to spring back when withdrawn from the die, much more than brass, assuming they didn't stick in the first place.

    FWIW, curiosity got the best of me and I tried a couple of the lacquer coated 7.62x39 in a spare Lee resizing die a long time ago. First one, lubed with 30W motor oil, went in hard and extracted hard. Tore the rim off the second one. Tried the drill 'n' tap on case head to extract the case. No joy; bolt pulled out. Good thing I had a 7.62x39 roughing reamer and lathe. It also hosed up the shell holder, too.

    It might be possible to resize tapered pistol cases as they are short and have less bearing surface, but I'm not interested in trying it. Scratching up a carbide die would be high on the suckage scale.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    I knew some Germans who reloaded and fired some Blazer Aluminum cases. You gotta understand most Krauts will pick up a matchstick and carry it home to use in their stove! Frugal ain't the word.

    They had no problems with one reload and if I remember correctly it was a revolver cartridge .357 or .38.

    It is a big no no for me, not worth the effort and I surely don't recommended it. I'm sure there is a YouTube video some guy made .........................
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,686 Senior Member
    An old shooting friend of mine in Texas and I had done quite a bit of experimenting with reloading and had read all of the warnings about aluminum cases so we couldn't wait to try and dispel all of the rumors about aluminum cases. Bear in mind that we did this about 25 years ago so I don't know what todays cases are like. We used CCI Blazer cases in .44mag. They were Berdan primed but we found that the decapping pin punched right through them and created a third flashhole. We loaded them pretty hot at max 240gr .44mag velocities and shot them out of a super Blackhawk and a model29 and we had no problems whatsoever. We only loaded them once but in all honesty I'm pretty sure that we could have loaded them a few times. Every time they were fired I'm sure that they would have work hardened and become more brittle but one crazy hot reloading showed no pressure signs and all the rumors about aluminum cases being unreloadable were dispelled as far as I'm concerned. I'm confident that they can withstand at least one reloading for me. For any of y'all they will definitely fail so don't try it.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,844 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    Probably samey-same. Both companies owned by ATK.
    CHIRO1989 wrote: »
    That is what I thought when I saw this also.
    As did I
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • olesniperolesniper Senior Member Posts: 3,759 Senior Member
    zorba wrote: »
    Nice video - boxer primed for those who don't wanna sit through it (but well worth watching).

    Dumb, stupid, and NOOOOOOB question: What would be involved to re-assemble the two rounds disassembled in the video? Is it as simple as pouring the powder back in and pressing the bullets back in? Or would there be more to it?

    Run the case through a expanding die, pour in powder, run through seater/crimp die.
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
    I will fear no evil: For I carry a .308 and not a .270
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,851 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Interesting. Wonder if they're Berdan primed or Boxer primed?

    Probably whatever is the cheapest way to prime them to make 'em go bang. Doesn't make much difference, I don't believe because I think being aluminum they're most likely not reloadable. Of course you can get away with some things a few times, no matter what is said about it. But that doesn't make it safe, just because you get away with it once, or twice, or even 10 times. It's like shooting 3" shells in a 2 3/4 inch chamber in a shot gun. You get away with it most of the time, but it still, among clearer thinking heads, isn't exactly a safe practice. I actually had some(brand new) blazers that when I shot them in my .357 they burnt a hole in the side of the cartridge almost down by the rim. It only happened once and didn't hurt anything, but got my attention. Now true, that might not ever happen again, but it didn't give me the "Warm and Fuzzy." And I realize that yes, this is a different issue, but if it can happen even once to a brand new factory cartridge, then what of a once or more fired Cartridge?
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,578 Senior Member
    olesniper wrote: »
    Run the case through a expanding die, pour in powder, run through seater/crimp die.
    Thanx - makes sense.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,851 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    I never claimed to want to reload them; only curious as to the priming method. I'm crazy, but I'm not batscat crazy. I'm well aware that aluminum cases are unsuitable for reloading, just as the steel cases are unsuitable for reloading.
    If they were Berdan primed, that would/could possibly mean that the Berdan primers would be offered for sale for all that foreign BRASS ammunition so primed that is impossible to obtain primers for reloading. I have three different sized punches for removing the Berdan primers from the case; they go through one of the flash holes and punch the primer out. Problem is, I have no reliable source of primers. A LOT of milsurp foreign brass case ammo is Berdan primed. It would be nice to have a DOMESTIC source for those primers.

    Ah so, I got you Mike, as usual you're ahead of most of us here. Good Idea too.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • olesniperolesniper Senior Member Posts: 3,759 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    I never claimed to want to reload them; only curious as to the priming method. I'm crazy, but I'm not batscat crazy. I'm well aware that aluminum cases are unsuitable for reloading, just as the steel cases are unsuitable for reloading.
    If they were Berdan primed, that would/could possibly mean that the Berdan primers would be offered for sale for all that foreign BRASS ammunition so primed that is impossible to obtain primers for reloading. I have three different sized punches for removing the Berdan primers from the case; they go through one of the flash holes and punch the primer out. Problem is, I have no reliable source of primers. A LOT of milsurp foreign brass case ammo is Berdan primed. It would be nice to have a DOMESTIC source for those primers.

    http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/search/keywords/tula+berdan
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
    I will fear no evil: For I carry a .308 and not a .270
  • North ForestNorth Forest Member Posts: 311 Member
    I just bought a box of these in .45 at WalMart for only $14.58. If they cycle well, I'll buy more for target practice.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    shush wrote: »
    Have you seen this;


    A bit over the top labour wise but may save the day.

    We used to have lots of fun, berdan primer wise,, but at least we had a fair range of choice.

    I did that quite a bit back in the late 70's and early 80' when I was always short on money. I had bought a little Unimat lathe in the late 70's and had a brain fart. 8x57 Mauser ammo was still obscenely cheap by the case, but it was Berdan primed and corrosive at that. I bought a few cases and shot them out of an old 98 with a 'slick' barrel I had bought for $10 at a hardware store pre '68.

    I made and hardened the three punches that I mentioned, and deprimed several thousand; time I had, money, not so much. I chucked up each case and removed most of that dimple in the primer pocket with a 1/8" end mill chucked in the tailstock. Then I drilled a flash hole in each case with an appropriate sized drill bit. I also made a primer pocket punch to take out the crimp and make priming a little easier. It worked, and I had lots of brass cases to load for hunting. One thing about those cases, with three flash holes there was never an ignition problem! I also tried a few with the hump removed but no center hole drilled and they shot every time.

    Necessity can be a pretty good teacher, if you are desperate for an alternative.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • HAWKENHAWKEN Senior Member Posts: 1,688 Senior Member
    :roll:
    jaywapti wrote: »
    It wouldn't matter, I wouldn't advise you to try to reload aluminum cases, there a one shot case.

    JAY

    Jay, When the first Blazer ammo came out, it was Boxer primed. My Dad and I found several hundred rounds of it at a local gun range, in .45acp. We reloaded it with .23o grain LRN bullets over 4 grains of Hodgdons Clays, without any problems what so ever........Robin :roll:
    I don't often talk to people that voted for Obama, but when I do I order large fries!
    Life member of the American Legion, the VFW, the NRA and the Masonic Lodge, retired LEO
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    olesniper wrote: »
    Run the case through a expanding die, pour in powder, run through seater/crimp die.

    Nothing wrong with doing that. As long as they aren't expanded enough by firing to make chambering a problem, there would be no problem with work hardening the case in the sizing die. Aluminum cases are coated, too, so they shouldn't be run into a sizing die.

    The Al cases actually harden a little when fired. They can be reloaded a few times, but the hardening can be worrisome, especially in semi auto pistols where the case is partially unsupported at the head. They really need to be annealed first before reloading to get them back to a softer state, but that annealing requires a temperature controlled oven.

    There's plenty of info about reloading the Al cases on the net from reliable sources. Lots of info about neck splits, head separations, and a few cases where the unsupported part of the case head in a semi auto blew out. If I got desperate, I'd load them for my Frankenrifles as the case head is fully supported, but I don't trust them in a semi auto. Revolvers fully support the case, so a blowout from the case head area isn't really possible.

    And I have no desire to acquire the nickname 'Lefty' or 'Stumpy'.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • olesniperolesniper Senior Member Posts: 3,759 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Nothing wrong with doing that. As long as they aren't expanded enough by firing to make chambering a problem, there would be no problem with work hardening the case in the sizing die. Aluminum cases are coated, too, so they shouldn't be run into a sizing die.

    The Al cases actually harden a little when fired. They can be reloaded a few times, but the hardening can be worrisome, especially in semi auto pistols where the case is partially unsupported at the head. They really need to be annealed first before reloading to get them back to a softer state, but that annealing requires a temperature controlled oven.

    There's plenty of info about reloading the Al cases on the net from reliable sources. Lots of info about neck splits, head separations, and a few cases where the unsupported part of the case head in a semi auto blew out. If I got desperate, I'd load them for my Frankenrifles as the case head is fully supported, but I don't trust them in a semi auto. Revolvers fully support the case, so a blowout from the case head area isn't really possible.

    And I have no desire to acquire the nickname 'Lefty' or 'Stumpy'.

    Didn't think to specify. I meant the brass case, only. I would just write off the aluminum cartridge, once the bullet was pulled.
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
    I will fear no evil: For I carry a .308 and not a .270
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,578 Senior Member
    Needed to stop by WallyWorld today, picked up a couple of boxes.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Blazer Aluminum cases for most folks/practical purposes should be treated like a Prophylactic, fire them once and throw them away!
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Blazer Aluminum cases for most folks/practical purposes should be treated like a Prophylactic, fire them once and throw them away!

    Aluminum is running about a dollar a pound. If you shoot a lot of that stuff, it might be smart to save the empty cases to sell as scrap aluminum.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,231 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Blazer Aluminum cases for most folks/practical purposes should be treated like a Prophylactic, fire them once and throw them away!

    I wish I were rich and could afford to use condoms only once. I throw mine in the dishwasher.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,578 Senior Member
    Got to looking at my newly purchased boxes. Sez not to use in firearms with ported barrels or ported compensators. Is that 'cause its aluminum or is that just Federal in general these days? Also sez "Not for LEO use"!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • olesniperolesniper Senior Member Posts: 3,759 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    I wish I were rich and could afford to use condoms only once. I throw mine in the dishwasher.

    TMI
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
    I will fear no evil: For I carry a .308 and not a .270
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