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Magazine Disconnects and External Safeties

breamfisherbreamfisher Senior MemberPosts: 13,886 Senior Member
Ruger's introduced an LC9s "Pro" model. It's striker-fired like the normal LC9s (that's what the "s" stands for), but lacks an external safety and a magazine disconnect. The mother magazine has a web article about it.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/first-look/first-look-ruger-lc9s-pro/

Of note about the features (or lack thereof) I mentioned, from the article:
The absence of the external safety allows the shooter to engage targets during high-stress scenarios when there may not be time to deactivate a manual safety. Likewise, the removal of the magazine disconnect benefits tactical reloads and permits the user to fire with one round in the chamber and the magazine removed.

A few things pop into my mind...
1. I've never noticed a properly designed thumb safety slowing down my first shot. I don't mind the lack of the thumb safety, as it's of dubious value to me on a striker-fired handgun, but the reason not to have it is spurious.
2. I'm not a fan of magazine disconnects. Not because I've noticed them slowing down tactical reloads (swapping a partially spent mag for a full one), but more because I like the option of being able to fire with a mag out, and that mag disconnects can have a deleterious effect on the trigger pull.

All in all, an interesting handgun. Just not sure if the advantages listed are advantages for the reasons given...
I'm just here for snark.

Replies

  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,591 Senior Member
    The author of the article isn't specified as near as I can tell. I wonder if those reasons are personal opinion or company line.
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,068 Senior Member
    Well, Ruger just can't issue a press release saying "This is how we should have designed it in the first place"

    They have to come up with a REASON
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • twatwa Senior Member Posts: 2,245 Senior Member
    How about offering one with an external safety and NO magazine disconnect. With the LC9 I own, having the magazine disconnect is about my only complaint for this gun. They could do better on the trigger also, but you get used to it.
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    Ruger's introduced an LC9s "Pro" model. It's striker-fired like the normal LC9s (that's what the "s" stands for), but lacks an external safety and a magazine disconnect. The mother magazine has a web article about it.

    http://www.gunsandammo.com/first-look/first-look-ruger-lc9s-pro/

    Of note about the features (or lack thereof) I mentioned, from the article:
    The absence of the external safety allows the shooter to engage targets during high-stress scenarios when there may not be time to deactivate a manual safety. Likewise, the removal of the magazine disconnect benefits tactical reloads and permits the user to fire with one round in the chamber and the magazine removed.

    A few things pop into my mind...
    1. I've never noticed a properly designed thumb safety slowing down my first shot. I don't mind the lack of the thumb safety, as it's of dubious value to me on a striker-fired handgun, but the reason not to have it is spurious.
    2. I'm not a fan of magazine disconnects. Not because I've noticed them slowing down tactical reloads (swapping a partially spent mag for a full one), but more because I like the option of being able to fire with a mag out, and that mag disconnects can have a deleterious effect on the trigger pull.

    All in all, an interesting handgun. Just not sure if the advantages listed are advantages for the reasons given...


    In CQB we were trained to do a couple things to try to disable an attacker's handgun. One of the things, if it was a semi-auto, was if we were grappling with their gun to drop try to drop their mag (in addition to a couple other things) to hopefully keep it from being fired sans mag (also it leaves them with just one shot at most also).
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,382 Senior Member
    Ok. . .they leave off the lawyer features and call it the "Pro".

    We could inject a little honesty and call it the "Average Intelligence" model.

    Or maybe the "SWO" for "Suddenly Worth Owning"
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    bream, I generally agree with you about the safety and mag disconnect.

    If a person practices enough, an external safety (one that's as you say, properly designed) is no problem.

    In a tactical confrontation, if you're under direct and immediate attack, I'm not too sure that a quick reload or load with a single cartridge without the magazine, regardless, is fast enough anyway. I'm sure there are however plenty of scenarios that allow for this consequence.

    Best to not have either, especially a safety that's really not needed. And an external safety on a DA-type pistol isn't very helpful. It's just a gimmick or a tossoff to the anti-gun critics.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    bream, I generally agree with you about the safety and mag disconnect.

    If a person practices enough, an external safety (one that's as you say, properly designed) is no problem.

    In a tactical confrontation, if you're under direct and immediate attack, I'm not too sure that a quick reload or load with a single cartridge without the magazine, regardless, is fast enough anyway. I'm sure there are however plenty of scenarios that allow for this consequence.

    Best to not have either, especially a safety that's really not needed. And an external safety on a DA-type pistol isn't very helpful. It's just a gimmick or a tossoff to the anti-gun critics.

    Actually I think an external safety should be left to personal preference. But a magazine disconnect I can think of no real purpose for. I have one on my S&W 9mm and that's one of the few things on it I don't like. I have to have the magazine in the gun to fire it. Lots of times I'd love to be able to dry fire it without a magazine, but I can't. I wish somebody here with more hand gun knowledge would explain to me its purpose.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,886 Senior Member
    My understanding is that the mag safety is a way of rendering the handgun "safe" with an uneducated user. Idea being that by just removing the mag it's "safe" and therefore no pesky safety lever to deal with. Some try to frost it with the idea that if you're fighting for your gun, you can dump the mag and give your assailant an inelegant club. On the other hand, if you do manage to retain the weapon YOU now have the inelegant club.
    I'm just here for snark.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    My understanding is that the mag safety is a way of rendering the handgun "safe" with an uneducated user. Idea being that by just removing the mag it's "safe" and therefore no pesky safety lever to deal with. Some try to frost it with the idea that if you're fighting for your gun, you can dump the mag and give your assailant an inelegant club. On the other hand, if you do manage to retain the weapon YOU now have the inelegant club.

    Damn Bream, you disarmed me with facts. LOL! Actually I was sort of facetiously fishing and was waiting for someone to tell me some BS reason and I was going to tell them "I See, now give me a GOOD reason." But you answered my question, or at least your answer sounded good. But I really like your last sentence, inelegant club, LOL!!! Or like a guy told me back in the 80s when he told me he kept all his hand guns loaded. when I ask him why all of 'em? he said, "Because I have absolutely no use for a $300 Rock!"
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • bushratbushrat Member Posts: 39 Member
    Can't stand magazine disconnects and prefer not to have an exterior safety. Oh, and I really don't like grip safeties. I much prefer to practice, and learn to handle my firearm properly and safely.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    My understanding is that the mag safety is a way of rendering the handgun "safe" with an uneducated user. Idea being that by just removing the mag it's "safe" and therefore no pesky safety lever to deal with. Some try to frost it with the idea that if you're fighting for your gun, you can dump the mag and give your assailant an inelegant club. On the other hand, if you do manage to retain the weapon YOU now have the inelegant club.

    Agree. There seems to be no "real" reason for the disconnect. It's likely a toss-off to the antigun crowd.
  • LMLarsenLMLarsen Senior Member Posts: 8,337 Senior Member
    The magazine disconnect on the Browning P35 was a 1935 requirement of the French military, who commissioned the design. Colt introduced mag disconnects on some of their pocket pistols as early as 1916.
    “A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”

    NRA Endowment Member
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    Gimme safeties. Thanks. Merry Christmas, Happy New Year.
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,982 Senior Member
    External safeties don't bother me. My M&P Shield has one, but I never activate it because I carry it in a holster that covers the trigger guard. On my 1911s I rest my thumb on top of the safety, so disengaging the safety is intrinsic in taking a normal grip for me.

    Magazine disconnects, however, I have no use for. I bought a Shield over the LC9 because it had said disconnect. The only gun I have w/ a disconnect is my 22/45, which is a range toy. I have even toyed with disabling it, but that is a project far down the road.
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,615 Senior Member
    I've got a Model 39 S&W that has a mag disconnect, and had a Browning High Power with a mag disconnect. Don't bother me since I don't intend to drop a magazine. Kind of a non issue for me, but I can see people making an issue of it. Just don't push that mag release button and you'll be OK.

    Smiths are known for mag safeties for some reason. I'm not sure why they were developed in the High Power, but they were, apparently for some good reason.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • LMLarsenLMLarsen Senior Member Posts: 8,337 Senior Member
    The trigger on my old Argentine P35 improved noticeably when I removed the mag disconnect, but the disco on my S&W 1006 apparently did not involve the trigger parts like the P35 did, so that never bothered me. None of my current pistols have such a thing.
    “A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”

    NRA Endowment Member
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    My daughter dropped the mag out of my 22/45 one shot early during a competition. Luckily I disabled the mag disconnect and she just fired w/o the mag in. Thank goodness for aftermarket parts.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    I know the BHP trigger pull improves when the magazine safety is removed.

    IIRC, the magazine safety was designed for the purpose of disabling the sidearm in case of a takeaway by an enemy soldier in combat.

    Also touted as a safety feature years after, you could store loaded magazines separate from an unloaded non firing gun as a precaution to children / unauthorized people and casual handling of said firearm.

    I have also heard this feature touted by gun shop commandos to and for stupid people that might forget to clear and check chambers on firearms.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
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