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Castle doctrine? How to go to prison anyway

samzheresamzhere BannedPosts: 10,923 Senior Member
Here's a story about how to go to prison. A Montana man's "castle doctrine" defense didn't work, and he was convicted of murder. Why?

Maybe because he bragged about planning to shoot intruders (there had apparently been a rash of burglaries in the area, although he hadn't been burglarized), and told people they could read about it later in the news.

Maybe because he deliberately left a lure, leaving his garage door open and having a purse on display there.

Maybe because when alerted via a motion detector, he immediately fired 4 shotgun blasts into the garage, killing the young guy who was there.

Essentially, maybe because he's an idiot.

Yeah, the kid was where he shouldn't have been. That much is true. But setting "booby traps" and also running off your mouth about deliberately planning to shoot someone? Dumb.

Lessons: Don't brag about your "self defense" plans to anyone. Don't set traps or lures. Premeditation is not part of the castle doctrine. Duh.

Here's the story:

http://www.chron.com/news/crime/article/Self-defense-fails-in-Montana-s-man-murder-trial-5965516.php

Replies

  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member
    Amazing that someone would think the Castle Doctrine is a hunting license - same mentality as those who think a concealed handgun license comes with a deputy badge, I reckon.

    Edit: Of course there is always the possibility of extenuating circumstances. If a person was being harassed or preyed upon on a regular basis and believed he had to take the guy out to protect himself, I might have a hard time convicting him of premeditated murder, even though it still might not be justifiable homicide. The devil is in the details.
  • NomadacNomadac Senior Member Posts: 902 Senior Member
    Appears to be a justified conviction, based on the law, IMO.:up:
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Stupidity is not a good defense after a case of diarrhea of the mouth. The thing defense lawyers dread most is a client who can't, or won't keep his big mouth shut!
    Jerry
  • pjames777pjames777 Senior Member Posts: 1,421 Senior Member
    Good riddance to a bad name for gun owners IMHO. Guys like him are worse than the Liberal press.....
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,615 Senior Member
    A good conviction for a bad guy. In GA, you can't hunt doves over a baited field, even if it's your field. And you can't shoot anyone unless you fear for your safety.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    One word comes to mind, "Moron"
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    Amazing that someone would think the Castle Doctrine is a hunting license - same mentality as those who think a concealed handgun license comes with a deputy badge, I reckon.

    Edit: Of course there is always the possibility of extenuating circumstances. If a person was being harassed or preyed upon on a regular basis and believed he had to take the guy out to protect himself, I might have a hard time convicting him of premeditated murder, even though it still might not be justifiable homicide. The devil is in the details.

    You're right about the possible extenuating circumstances but per the story, apparently in this case, none.

    It's most likely as you said, thinking castle is a "shoot anyone, anytime" carte blanche law. It isn't.

    Correct also as pjames and other say, not exactly the sort of guy whom you'd want as a symbol of responsible gun ownership or gun use. Good riddance is how I see it.
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    It is a truly sad situation but somebody has to say it ... Kaarma is a bitch, we just don't know who's yet.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Reminds me of Carl Rowan the D.C. anti gun columnist, he shot a naked young man that had been swimming in his pool, the gun had belonged to his son, an FBI agent IIRC, an illegally possessed firearm in D.C. , so what justification could there be in shooting an unarmed wet naked boy ?

    Link to story;
    http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20099349,00.html
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • Uncle FesterUncle Fester Senior Member Posts: 1,585 Senior Member
    Even in the most pro self defense states, murder is murder.

    Deadly force should be avoided and should be the last defense. If the evidence shows you wanted to shoot someone, you will probably go to jail.
  • HvyMaxHvyMax Senior Member Posts: 1,826 Senior Member
    Try living in MD. Even though we technically don't have to jump out of a third floor window anymore that won't stop the persecutors. We had a case where a vet home on leave had someone kick down his door and attack him. The arrest and charge was enough to compromise his clearance and end his career. He was eventually found innocent or the charges may have been eventually dropped but not before wrecking his life.
    Wal Mart where the discriminating white trash shop.
    Paddle faster!!! I hear banjos.
    Reason for editing: correcting my auto correct
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    I lived in Southern Maryland for a few years, there was an incident where a man shot and killed a car thief from his balcony, he was not charged....
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • HvyMaxHvyMax Senior Member Posts: 1,826 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    I lived in Southern Maryland for a few years, there was an incident where a man shot and killed a car thief from his balcony, he was not charged....
    SMIBville is a changing. Waiting to see how my Birthday Blastfest goes over with the new Sheriff from the other end of the county.
    Wal Mart where the discriminating white trash shop.
    Paddle faster!!! I hear banjos.
    Reason for editing: correcting my auto correct
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    The Sheriff in My area, St. Mary's was pro-gun, that helps if you have a Sheriff willing to sign off on stuff....... I got along very well with him.
    Although typically Maryland like NYC does not issue CCW permits, if you really want one, and are willing to jump through hoops, you can get CCW virtually anywhere.......
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • HvyMaxHvyMax Senior Member Posts: 1,826 Senior Member
    Chuckles just got a new Sherrif from the other end of the county so I guess I'll see how it goes.
    Wal Mart where the discriminating white trash shop.
    Paddle faster!!! I hear banjos.
    Reason for editing: correcting my auto correct
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    You might try for CCW, talk to your Sheriff, he may even make you a reserve Deputy.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
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