Something else to consider: who buys a 25-06 for their first rifle? More people are going to buy a 30-06 or 308 for a first rifle. IMO people who buy a 25-06 are more likely to be gun guys with more shooting/hunting experience. They are (or should be) better shots, more capable of placing the bullet in precisely the right spot, leading to shorter tracking distance. As experienced hunters, they are also less likely to succumb to "buck fever" and blow a shot, and thus less likely to lose an animal.
Down here in the more wide open spaces the 25-06 is one of the most often first rifles. It has low recoil even though it's on a full 06 length case. And, it pushes a 100 grain bullet out the barrel at 3200-3300 FPS. AND, should you deem it necessary it will push a 120 grain bullet out the barrel at close to 3000 FPS or maybe a bit more, depending on your barrel length. That's awesome enough in my book.
Also, just my .02 worth, but I really believe that there's not a rat's rear end difference, with good shot placement, in the overall performance of any of the more popular rifles ranging from the .243 to the 30-06 when using similarly designed bullets at velocities from 2800 to 3100 FPS and at ranges out to 200-250 yards which I believe 95% of these animals are killed within. In fact, I'll stick my neck out and say I believe that most are killed inside 100 yards.
Daddy, what's an enabler?
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
That's a good read.
However without seeing where the deer were hit, the results mean squat. They used the distance the deer traveled as a metric, without regards to where the deer was hit.
but they did list where the deer were hit. Some very poorly.
that said, I hunted SC and the deer were tiny. Many I saw were not much larger than Key or Co use deer. I never shot one but some I saw shot had devastating wounds. Like front quarters blown nearly clean off.
I also had a buddy that bought a used 25 06 from the sniper team of the local LE guys. It was the most accurate rifle I had ever seen up til that time. He killed a lot of deer and yotes with it.
It's not something I'd buy for myself but I'd have full confidence hunting deer with one.
Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
This is just one of many studies that have been done. Some you have to look a little harder to find. I recall in one study they determined the DRT on lung shots was caused my hydra static shock in which blood vessels in the brain ruptured. This most often occurred in smaller high velocity cartridges and not so much in large caliber cartridges with heavily constructed bullets.
The subject has be of great interest to me for many, many years.
Hang around here during hunting season. You will see many actual bullet damage assessments from space guns to flintlocks.
To be quite honest, there is no control in the study. It is waaaay to generic. With no control group, the 25 shooters could be, and likely are, older guys or gun guys. The 243 shooters may be kids with their first rifle. Besides my son (16) the only people I know that hunt with a 25-06 are 50 and up. He has one because I, a older guy, got it for him.
The best thing you can take away from any study on bullet and caliber performance on deer is that if you hit them in a vital area, they will fall over in the not to distant future. If you cant hit the cpu or the HVAC, and you just shoot "at deer" they will run farther. They dont wear armor and cant dodge bullets and are pretty easy to turn into jerkey, you just have to hit them where the live.
It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
......the DRT on lung shots was caused my hydra static shock in which blood vessels in the brain ruptured. This most often occurred in smaller high velocity cartridges and not so much in large caliber cartridges with heavily constructed bullets.
This is true.
And I like you.
So far.
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
This is just one of many studies that have been done. Some you have to look a little harder to find. I recall in one study they determined the DRT on lung shots was caused my hydra static shock in which blood vessels in the brain ruptured. This most often occurred in smaller high velocity cartridges and not so much in large caliber cartridges with heavily constructed bullets.
So you mean to tell me that bullets constructed to work on thin skinned medium game work better in thin skinned medium game better than bullets designed to penetrate larger game.
Who da think it?
Just food for thought. I have seen the same DRT from good shot placement (double lung top of pump) and proper 30 cal bullets moving at less than 2600FPS. Did the study differentiate between heavy wrong bullets and heavy right bullets, or just a generic little fast, bigger slow comparison?
It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer,
And without sneering, teach the rest to sneer;
Willing to wound, and yet afraid to strike,
Just hint a fault, and hesitate dislike.
— "Epistle to Dr Arbuthnot" by Alexander Pope (1688–1744) :devil:
Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer,
And without sneering, teach the rest to sneer;
Willing to wound, and yet afraid to strike,
Just hint a fault, and hesitate dislike.
— "Epistle to Dr Arbuthnot" by Alexander Pope (1688–1744) :devil:
What the hell you mumbling about shush? You gonna have to learn English to talk around here.............:silly:................:drool:................:roll2:
Redneckery English would help!
:tooth::tooth::tooth:
Daddy, what's an enabler?
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
This is for all of you 25-06 owners. What do you think of that caliber as a whitetail/coyote round? I sold my 270 to my hunting buddy and need a replacement. I found a Kimber Montana today in 25-06. Nice, light weight rifle. I was looking at the 120 grain Federal Fusion 25-06 for whitetails. My Ruger Gunsite Scout shoots 308 Fusion ammo really well.
...well, back to the original question, I've shot a few mule deer w/ the 120gr. Fusion ammo/ .25-06 combo, found it to be very accurate w/ very good terminal ballistics, it kills 'em mordedder just fine. If you start to reload for the .25-06 don't neglect the lighter bullets. 75gr. V-Max's @ 3700fps are great for plinking, the 85gr. NBT's, 87gr. TNT's. & especially the 90gr. BlitzKing w/ it relatively high BC @3500fps+ are great varmint rounds...
What the hell you mumbling about shush? You gonna have to learn English to talk around here.............:silly:................:drool:................:roll2:
Redneckery English would help!
:tooth::tooth::tooth:
I bet that when he gets sloshed he uses the term "Ya'll"
It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
So you mean to tell me that bullets constructed to work on thin skinned medium game work better in thin skinned medium game better than bullets designed to penetrate larger game.
Who da think it?
Just food for thought. I have seen the same DRT from good shot placement (double lung top of pump) and proper 30 cal bullets moving at less than 2600FPS. Did the study differentiate between heavy wrong bullets and heavy right bullets, or just a generic little fast, bigger slow comparison?
I know you were intending to be slightly sarcastic but you make some great points about shooting deer.
Deer aren't elephants and most cartridges will penetrate just about any part of their hide. Good shot placement along with a good bullet performance will kill deer DRT, most of the time. Yeah, I've killed deer with big and slow bullets. I'm talking much a good bit bigger than .308 diameter. I have a 9.3x62 that I've killed a deer with and it just had a very large entry and exit wound. It went down DRT in its shadow. I like that.
But I also like when I shoot them in the lungs with a .270 Win. or a .250 Savage and their legs go out from under them. The light bullet goes into the boiler room, brain or spine and comes open like a 6" wide daisy and destroys what is causing this deer to stand and breathe, putting it down immediately.
Most any rifle between say .223 and 460 WBY will kill deer DRT with the correct bullet. But with lighter, smaller diameter bullets you're depending more on Velocity and/or Frangibility or maybe maximum expansion is a better term, to kill DRT. I would rather have a 30-06 with a 150 grain light skinned bullet than a 165 or 180 grain. I shoot a 200 grain Game King in mine, but the Game King is relatively frangible even in a heavy bullet, so I personally consider it superior to some others for deer. So is a Nosler Ballistic Tip or any Ballistic Tip. I prefer the Game Kings because I think the Noslers are a bit excessively frangible and I have destroyed a lot more meat with them. But I will say, they will put a deer down for the count on impact. Even at a bit lower velocity these bullets are frangible enough to do the job.
This is my opinion based on what I've experienced and your own mileage may vary.
Daddy, what's an enabler?
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
To tout a study that determined that is like being astounded if one did a study and determined that out of all the tools in the box, a hammer works best for driving nails.
It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
I bought my first 25-06 for varmint hunting in 1973. Years later after taking several nice bucks, I finally realized it was a fine deer rifle as well. I've bought many rifles since but still own a 25-06 and will not be without one.
To tout a study that determined that is like being astounded if one did a study and determined that out of all the tools in the box, a hammer works best for driving nails.
Yes But..But...But Olie#^@%%$$.... My whole point here is to point out the obvious. Sometimes it goes rigth over some people's heads...:jester::jester::jester:
Daddy, what's an enabler?
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
Just my $.02 worth...........Everything mentioned above has merit, however, one thing has been overlooked; The mindset of the animal at the moment being shot. If it is in a state of agitation, then it will tend to run farther than when in a more relaxed state (such as when grazing). Think of it as if being hit (sucker-punched), vs. being in a heightened state of awareness (expecting to be hit), and the adrenalin flowing. Get sucker-punched, and you're much more apt to go down instead of returning the punch all else being equal. Same with animals. If they are in a state of agitation, or jittery, they will have more tendency to run rather than fall at impact. The difference in distance being in part, to the adrenalin level and state of agitation. Just something to consider.
WILL
[email protected]; I need my meds.
THE WINDS OF TYRANNY ARE BLOWING FROM OUR OWN CAPITOL.
Just my $.02 worth...........Everything mentioned above has merit, however, one thing has been overlooked; The mindset of the animal at the moment being shot. If it is in a state of agitation, then it will tend to run farther than when in a more relaxed state (such as when grazing). Think of it as if being hit (sucker-punched), vs. being in a heightened state of awareness (expecting to be hit), and the adrenalin flowing. Get sucker-punched, and you're much more apt to go down instead of returning the punch all else being equal. Same with animals. If they are in a state of agitation, or jittery, they will have more tendency to run rather than fall at impact. The difference in distance being in part, to the adrenalin level and state of agitation. Just something to consider.
WILL
Maybe, but I think shot placement trumps all. Hit the animal in the spine or brain and he isn't going anywhere, I don't care how much adrenaline he has flowing through his veins, he's going down. Blow his heart out he may run a few yards if he's pumped up but he isn't going far.
If this is related to the .25-06 discussion, the .25-06 with a fairly frangible bullet is capable of taking out a fairly large vital area. I don't have a .25-06 as I've said, but I have other rifles that shoot some rather fast bullets and judging by their past performance on game I would think a .25-06 is vary capable of mostly DRT kills with good shot placement. In other words the shooter needs to be a good shot and keep his cool and put the bullet where it needs to go to immediately anchor the animal with a one shot humane kill.
Daddy, what's an enabler?
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
The longest shots I'd ever taken (and hit on) on groundhogs were with a 25-06. Using the same bullet/load that the person who owned the gun used in WV and KY to hunt deer. It was eye opening to get an extra 100-200 yards over my 22-250.
Everybody has preferences but if I was in a place where the 25-06 was legal for white tail (ie not Ohio) then it would be at the top of the list.
I agree bellcat, it's a little better than the .243, especially out around 300+ yards. I think it is overshadowed by the .243 because gun writers have pushed the .243 thinking it's better for kids and women. However, as was said its recoil is not enough to make a difference. I also think it's been overshadowed by the big interest in 6.5s because of the heavier longer bullets in rifles with tighter twist rates. The .25-06 is a rifle to deer hunt with and not for shooting targets out to 1000 yards which few here do anyway. I think the .25-06 is in the ideal range for antelope and deer. And I think with the 120 grain bullets it's good enough for whitetail AND Mule deer anywhere, Canada included. As I've said, I have two smaller quarterbores, but someday I will have a .25-06.
I know a couple of guys who use their 25.06's on antelope, deer and elk. It's a good elk round with the proper bullets, and patience to wait for a good broadside shot. Raking shots and shots in timber should be avoided. These guys get their elk every year. I gave my 25.06 to my Grandson a couple years ago. It never let me down when I did my part, I used Barnes X bullets mostly.
This is for all of you 25-06 owners. What do you think of that caliber as a whitetail/coyote round? I sold my 270 to my hunting buddy and need a replacement. I found a Kimber Montana today in 25-06. Nice, light weight rifle. I was looking at the 120 grain Federal Fusion 25-06 for whitetails. My Ruger Gunsite Scout shoots 308 Fusion ammo really well.
Never heard a discouraging word about any of the three,
25/06
Kimber Montana
Fusion Bullets.
Looking forward to pictures and range report. :up::up::up:
"The .30-06 is never a mistake." Townsend Whelen :iwo:
I know a couple of guys who use their 25.06's on antelope, deer and elk. It's a good elk round with the proper bullets, and patience to wait for a good broadside shot. Raking shots and shots in timber should be avoided. These guys get their elk every year. I gave my 25.06 to my Grandson a couple years ago. It never let me down when I did my part, I used Barnes X bullets mostly.
I would venture to say that if you use a 115-120 grain Nosler Partition or something comparable you don't have to be that picky with the shots. Those bullets have a lot of Sectional Density and I would think they will penetrate well on larger animals. I'm not saying a 25-06 would be my favorite for an elk rifle but if it's what's in your safe, why not? If you don't have anything more suitable I would think it would do fine.
But then again, I'm no elk hunter, not yet anyhow.
Daddy, what's an enabler?
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
Replies
Down here in the more wide open spaces the 25-06 is one of the most often first rifles. It has low recoil even though it's on a full 06 length case. And, it pushes a 100 grain bullet out the barrel at 3200-3300 FPS. AND, should you deem it necessary it will push a 120 grain bullet out the barrel at close to 3000 FPS or maybe a bit more, depending on your barrel length. That's awesome enough in my book.
Also, just my .02 worth, but I really believe that there's not a rat's rear end difference, with good shot placement, in the overall performance of any of the more popular rifles ranging from the .243 to the 30-06 when using similarly designed bullets at velocities from 2800 to 3100 FPS and at ranges out to 200-250 yards which I believe 95% of these animals are killed within. In fact, I'll stick my neck out and say I believe that most are killed inside 100 yards.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
that said, I hunted SC and the deer were tiny. Many I saw were not much larger than Key or Co use deer. I never shot one but some I saw shot had devastating wounds. Like front quarters blown nearly clean off.
I also had a buddy that bought a used 25 06 from the sniper team of the local LE guys. It was the most accurate rifle I had ever seen up til that time. He killed a lot of deer and yotes with it.
It's not something I'd buy for myself but I'd have full confidence hunting deer with one.
The subject has be of great interest to me for many, many years.
To be quite honest, there is no control in the study. It is waaaay to generic. With no control group, the 25 shooters could be, and likely are, older guys or gun guys. The 243 shooters may be kids with their first rifle. Besides my son (16) the only people I know that hunt with a 25-06 are 50 and up. He has one because I, a older guy, got it for him.
The best thing you can take away from any study on bullet and caliber performance on deer is that if you hit them in a vital area, they will fall over in the not to distant future. If you cant hit the cpu or the HVAC, and you just shoot "at deer" they will run farther. They dont wear armor and cant dodge bullets and are pretty easy to turn into jerkey, you just have to hit them where the live.
This is true.
And I like you.
So far.
So you mean to tell me that bullets constructed to work on thin skinned medium game work better in thin skinned medium game better than bullets designed to penetrate larger game.
Who da think it?
Just food for thought. I have seen the same DRT from good shot placement (double lung top of pump) and proper 30 cal bullets moving at less than 2600FPS. Did the study differentiate between heavy wrong bullets and heavy right bullets, or just a generic little fast, bigger slow comparison?
Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer,
And without sneering, teach the rest to sneer;
Willing to wound, and yet afraid to strike,
Just hint a fault, and hesitate dislike.
— "Epistle to Dr Arbuthnot" by Alexander Pope (1688–1744) :devil:
What the hell you mumbling about shush? You gonna have to learn English to talk around here.............:silly:................:drool:................:roll2:
Redneckery English would help!
:tooth::tooth::tooth:
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
...well, back to the original question, I've shot a few mule deer w/ the 120gr. Fusion ammo/ .25-06 combo, found it to be very accurate w/ very good terminal ballistics, it kills 'em mordedder just fine. If you start to reload for the .25-06 don't neglect the lighter bullets. 75gr. V-Max's @ 3700fps are great for plinking, the 85gr. NBT's, 87gr. TNT's. & especially the 90gr. BlitzKing w/ it relatively high BC @3500fps+ are great varmint rounds...
I bet that when he gets sloshed he uses the term "Ya'll"
I know you were intending to be slightly sarcastic but you make some great points about shooting deer.
Deer aren't elephants and most cartridges will penetrate just about any part of their hide. Good shot placement along with a good bullet performance will kill deer DRT, most of the time. Yeah, I've killed deer with big and slow bullets. I'm talking much a good bit bigger than .308 diameter. I have a 9.3x62 that I've killed a deer with and it just had a very large entry and exit wound. It went down DRT in its shadow. I like that.
But I also like when I shoot them in the lungs with a .270 Win. or a .250 Savage and their legs go out from under them. The light bullet goes into the boiler room, brain or spine and comes open like a 6" wide daisy and destroys what is causing this deer to stand and breathe, putting it down immediately.
Most any rifle between say .223 and 460 WBY will kill deer DRT with the correct bullet. But with lighter, smaller diameter bullets you're depending more on Velocity and/or Frangibility or maybe maximum expansion is a better term, to kill DRT. I would rather have a 30-06 with a 150 grain light skinned bullet than a 165 or 180 grain. I shoot a 200 grain Game King in mine, but the Game King is relatively frangible even in a heavy bullet, so I personally consider it superior to some others for deer. So is a Nosler Ballistic Tip or any Ballistic Tip. I prefer the Game Kings because I think the Noslers are a bit excessively frangible and I have destroyed a lot more meat with them. But I will say, they will put a deer down for the count on impact. Even at a bit lower velocity these bullets are frangible enough to do the job.
This is my opinion based on what I've experienced and your own mileage may vary.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
To tout a study that determined that is like being astounded if one did a study and determined that out of all the tools in the box, a hammer works best for driving nails.
Yes But..But...But Olie#^@%%$$.... My whole point here is to point out the obvious. Sometimes it goes rigth over some people's heads...:jester::jester::jester:
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/01/30/father-son-bag-charging-700-pound-hog-in-north-carolina/
:up: :guns:
:devil:
Jerry
Well there's a lot of big burly he men right here in Texas wearing frilly feminine Undies,
BUT! I ain't one of em. I don't own a 25-06, yet . But I do own a "Wanna Be .25-06, a .257 Ackley Improved. It's really the best of both worlds.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
I love the 25-06... Come and feel free to check my drawers... LOL
WILL
[email protected]; I need my meds.
THE WINDS OF TYRANNY ARE BLOWING FROM OUR OWN CAPITOL.
Maybe, but I think shot placement trumps all. Hit the animal in the spine or brain and he isn't going anywhere, I don't care how much adrenaline he has flowing through his veins, he's going down. Blow his heart out he may run a few yards if he's pumped up but he isn't going far.
If this is related to the .25-06 discussion, the .25-06 with a fairly frangible bullet is capable of taking out a fairly large vital area. I don't have a .25-06 as I've said, but I have other rifles that shoot some rather fast bullets and judging by their past performance on game I would think a .25-06 is vary capable of mostly DRT kills with good shot placement. In other words the shooter needs to be a good shot and keep his cool and put the bullet where it needs to go to immediately anchor the animal with a one shot humane kill.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
That's in S.C. - where most pygmy goats are larger than the "big deer". :rotflmao::whip2:
Everybody has preferences but if I was in a place where the 25-06 was legal for white tail (ie not Ohio) then it would be at the top of the list.
& NEVER REGRETTED IT !
Shooting a 85 gr SOFT Point,
it WORKED IT'S MAGIC for me many times on those long range,
on many cold wintry days......
I've used the lighter 224 calibers, and still own them, but when the "going gets tough,
the REMINGTON 700 BDL in the 25-06 is the rifle of my choice!
I have never shot a deer with it,
but I think it would serve me well in that capacity also........
I know a couple of guys who use their 25.06's on antelope, deer and elk. It's a good elk round with the proper bullets, and patience to wait for a good broadside shot. Raking shots and shots in timber should be avoided. These guys get their elk every year. I gave my 25.06 to my Grandson a couple years ago. It never let me down when I did my part, I used Barnes X bullets mostly.
Never heard a discouraging word about any of the three,
25/06
Kimber Montana
Fusion Bullets.
Looking forward to pictures and range report. :up::up::up:
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
I would venture to say that if you use a 115-120 grain Nosler Partition or something comparable you don't have to be that picky with the shots. Those bullets have a lot of Sectional Density and I would think they will penetrate well on larger animals. I'm not saying a 25-06 would be my favorite for an elk rifle but if it's what's in your safe, why not? If you don't have anything more suitable I would think it would do fine.
But then again, I'm no elk hunter, not yet anyhow.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.