Self defense during a terrorist attack?

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Replies

  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    Sorry "day of WRATH!!"
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    And Ok ok Doc it might hAve been a Kahr.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    At least a Khar is of higher quality, no ?
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Dr. db wrote: »
    Wambli: there are a lot here who have done more everyday of their working lives. The subject just interests me because our society has evolved to a point where traditional first responders aren't FIRST any more.

    I thought somehow it was contrarywise, back in the olden times you were most likely to be helped or found by non traditional first responders, a neighbor or a friend etc..... in the age of bigger cities, fire departments, Sheriffs, etc.... then in more recent modern times, they began to medically train first responders.....

    I am one of those that believes in people being self sufficient, able to take care of themselves, even with today's fast response times, you could still die waiting for help.

    I don't believe gun control folks that say few people had guns in those days, if you have to hunt and care for your family, no phones and uniformed help far far away, a gun(s) is the best way to fend off attack and hunt for food.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    In 1974 I worked with a cute school secretary in Texas. I asked her if she was worried leaving a very isolated school late at night. She said no because she carried a 38 revolver in her purse. I'm sure more people carried and carry than we know. I just think my philosophical evolution mirrors a substantial portion of society. Somehow I began to abrogate my personal protection and the protection of those I love to the police until recent events have shown me the error of my ways.
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,262 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Yes but most of them are military, LEO etc. I don't know that we have any civilians here that have had to make a decision to go after an armed BG while he is actively looking to harm innocents that are not family....

    Is there some story concerning Dr db I (or we) don't know about that you are alluding to Wambli?
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Hence why we should be glad there are people like him, willing to help other people when the chips are down, it is far easier not to take on the added responsibilities of being armed and leave it to someone else, let John or Harry do it......
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Dr. db wrote: »
    In 1974 I worked with a cute school secretary in Texas. I asked her if she was worried leaving a very isolated school late at night. She said no because she carried a 38 revolver in her purse. I'm sure more people carried and carry than we know. I just think my philosophical evolution mirrors a substantial portion of society. Somehow I began to abrogate my personal protection and the protection of those I love to the police until recent events have shown me the error of my ways.

    My girlfriend got a cold promo call asking if we wanted to install burglary alarms. She hung up on them, then told me about the call, and laughed, "I shoulda told them, no thanks, we've got guns!"

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    A dog is a great burglar alarm, guns are the best defense against burglars....
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,837 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    Jayhawker wrote: »

    That was the Howard Johnson shooting in New Orleans, I believe. A commercial radio station called for civilians to bring weapons and defend their city during that event, and many responded. There was a civilian at TU involved in killing Whitman, and several officers went home and got rifles, but I don't remember any wholesale civilian involvement in TX.

    Massad Ayyob wrote a piece about the incident some years ago which read in part...

    He never comes right out and says it, but McNab seems to show some sympathy for armed citizens. Analyzing the Texas Tower massacre by Charles Whitman in 1966, he writes, “The body count was soon stacking up on the streets of Austin. Such was the frustration felt by police that they permitted armed civilians to join them in directing fire against the tower. Their role became invaluable, as was acknowledged by Texas Ranger Ramiro ‘Ray’ Martinez, in his later autobiography ‘They Call Me Ranger Ray.’” It was Martinez who, along with brother Austin officer Houston McCoy, killed Whitman atop the tower. McNab quotes Martinez, “I was and am still upset that more recognition has not been given to the citizens who pulled out their hunting rifles and returned the sniper’s fire. The City of Austin and the State of Texas should be forever thankful and grateful to them because of the many lives they saved that day. The sniper did a lot of damage when he could fire freely, but when the armed citizens began to return fire the sniper had to take cover.”

    The entire article is here...

    http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/2010/11/13/
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,354 Senior Member
    My wife makes more in a year, than my life insurance would pay out, so that's not an issue here. I've spent many years in law enforcement, and in those years, I made it a point to perfect my abilities with my side arm to the extent that I never met another officer who could keep up. They were out there, but not in any organization I was a part of.

    Part of that devotion to the gun, was long distance shooting. There isn't a human sized target out to 100 yards, I can't it with a compact .45 or 9mm. They may not be head shots, and they may only be shoulders and hips, but presented with a stationary target, I'm going to hit it. More often than not, a 75 yard bowling pin will fall.

    So, I have no problem engaging distant targets to "Distract" them from their mission. If I can delay them long enough for the cavalry to arrive, I can accept that responsibility.

    The photo of the terrorist being filmed from a roof top was just such an occasion. A couple shots from the roof, may have slowed them down a bit, and who knows, maybe even struck them. Sure, you'd take return fire, but if they are firing in your direction and you have cover, they aren't firing at innocent people.

    I recall the shooting at Columbine. The first responding officers could hear shooting going on in the school. Active shooting. They were ordered to take up positions and wait for backup. I'm sorry, but no supervisor's order in the world would have stopped me from going in to engage whomever was in there slaughtering kids. It just isn't in me to sit by. Those cops were cowards. If not afraid of the bad guys, they were afraid of their supervisors. Either way, they were cowards. And before anyone suggests I need to walk a mile in their shoes, let me say I have experiences that prove my dedication to saving innocent lives at the significant risk of my own.

    Which, brings me to the point after a long and tiring keyboard attack. If one is properly armed and personally dedicated, their firearm should be capable of reaching out and striking any reasonable target at 100 yards. If one cannot do that, they need either a new gun, or more range time.
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,554 Senior Member
    I agree with Dan, here, about engaging from cover at long (handgun) range, although I have no experience to back it up. My 'epiphany' about defense of the family came about sometime after the 'Luby's Massacre' in Killeen, TX, when many of the facts and survivor accounts began to come to light. The testimony of the lady that is credited with 'clinching' the deal for concealed carry laws to be passed in Texas was compelling, especially so to me, since my wife, kids, and my parents had eaten there a couple of times, and I could visualize the scene, as she described it.

    A person with a compact pistol would have had time and opportunity to shoot the bad guy and save dozens of lives, had he/she been able to fire accurately from cover. If you have ever been inside a Luby's cafeteria, you may have noticed that a 30-40 yard shot would be possible from several locations, and in such a crowded and chaotic situation, a desperate person could have engaged and possibly even taken out the guy as he casually walked around emptying his semi-auto into cringing people and reloading, over and over again.

    Faced with the situation calebib described, I hope that I would have the courage and ability to move to cover and fire accurately enough to improve the chances of those being victimized. I honestly don't know how much I would risk for a stranger, but I believe I would have to try to help, if my own loved ones were secure.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Dan is spot on, just watch Hickock 45 on you tube, he engages targets way past 100 yards with a
    Glock 19 and other compact handguns, this is why I like a full size sidearm, to give myself a better chance of accurate longer distance shots...
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • Jack BurtonJack Burton Member Posts: 379 Member
    This maybe of interest. Although this puts the armed citizen inside as a potential target. Not as a bystander as the OP scenario-izes. No one good guy gets both shooters.

    http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2015/01/13/gun-owners-participate-in-simulation-of-paris-massacre/
    Came for the fishing, stayed for the guns.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    twa wrote: »
    The biggest "what if" is what am I carrying at the time? If I only have what I carry most, a small Smith and Wesson bodyguard .380 probably not, if I am in my vehicle and have a rifle or high capacity pistol with several mags available, I would be hard pressed not to. Tough situation and you probably wouldn't exactly know how you would handle until the moment hit you. Above all safety for you and family foremost.

    A good point. Not everyone lives in such a dangerous area that they feel compelled to have several firearms with them at all times, or envisions being drawn into a serious confrontation against heavily armed terrorists (or other thug types). The person may only be carrying, say, a small .38 snubbie or maybe a .380, and this is entirely adequate for the sort of random grab-and-run types of robberies that most people are confronted with.

    Such as a thug who confronts someone in the K-Mart parking lot. A nice little .38 w. hot loads works wonders in such a situation. Many times, when there is time to see the upcoming confrontation (maybe you're filling w. gas and the guy is "wandering" toward you) you can just display the gun and the person suddenly finds something important to do waaay off from where you are.) Things like this comprise the vast majority of armed citizen confrontations or scenarios.

    Some people may however live in an area that's so dangerous that they feel compelled to have more firepower at hand, even a long gun in addition to sidearm. This would of course enable them to proceed actively against a heavier armed foe, even if the confrontation wasn't something they were involved in at first, and that they decided to intervene. I totally understand this and agree that for those folks who feel it necessary to have a larger self defense presence due to the crime levels of where they live, it's a good thing to be prepared for such.

    However, regardless, I do think it's essential that the person weigh the consideration carefully, whether to risk life and limb by injecting themselves into a confrontation they could avoid by "hunkering down" (armed or not) because of the relative risks presented and by understanding that their primary duty is to protect their loved ones, and to be killed unduly by confronting heavily armed and trained thugs might not be the best for their family. I'm assuming of course that they aren't under direct threat themselves and decide to intervene, as was given in the initial scenario. This also would include consideration of their own skill set -- a total 100% civilian with just simple self defense class training for a CHL might not be capable of entering the fray, whereas an ex LEO or ex military might.

    It's all situational, as I said, and each scenario is unique.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    School hallways are long shots too. Columbine area LEOs began to argue for carrying ARs in their patrol cars when they realized this,.
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    Faced with the situation calebib described, I hope that I would have the courage and ability to move to cover and fire accurately enough to improve the chances of those being victimized. I honestly don't know how much I would risk for a stranger, but I believe I would have to try to help, if my own loved ones were secure.

    My hope exactly.
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    Jack Burton: Seems like the choice is get killed or (perhaps) take out a bad guy and get killed.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Dr. db wrote: »
    School hallways are long shots too. Columbine area LEOs began to argue for carrying ARs in their patrol cars when they realized this,.

    Agreed. There is generally very good justification for most LEOs to carry some sort of heavier weapon than sidearms. The LA bank shootout proved it, and other confrontations, such as Columbine, have added to this. Most LEO vehicles keep a shotgun, and having a general purpose AR is just fine.

    Of course, they need to train for such, too. Just as anyone who keeps long guns for self defense, civilian or otherwise -- training properly is essential.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    A good point. Not everyone lives in such a dangerous area that they feel compelled to have several firearms with them at all times, or envisions being drawn into a serious confrontation against heavily armed terrorists (or other thug types). The person may only be carrying, say, a small .38 snubbie or maybe a .380, and this is entirely adequate for the sort of random grab-and-run types of robberies that most people are confronted with.

    Such as a thug who confronts someone in the K-Mart parking lot. A nice little .38 w. hot loads works wonders in such a situation. Many times, when there is time to see the upcoming confrontation (maybe you're filling w. gas and the guy is "wandering" toward you) you can just display the gun and the person suddenly finds something important to do waaay off from where you are.) Things like this comprise the vast majority of armed citizen confrontations or scenarios.

    Some people may however live in an area that's so dangerous that they feel compelled to have more firepower at hand, even a long gun in addition to sidearm. This would of course enable them to proceed actively against a heavier armed foe, even if the confrontation wasn't something they were involved in at first, and that they decided to intervene. I totally understand this and agree that for those folks who feel it necessary to have a larger self defense presence due to the crime levels of where they live, it's a good thing to be prepared for such.

    However, regardless, I do think it's essential that the person weigh the consideration carefully, whether to risk life and limb by injecting themselves into a confrontation they could avoid by "hunkering down" (armed or not) because of the relative risks presented and by understanding that their primary duty is to protect their loved ones, and to be killed unduly by confronting heavily armed and trained thugs might not be the best for their family. I'm assuming of course that they aren't under direct threat themselves and decide to intervene, as was given in the initial scenario. This also would include consideration of their own skill set -- a total 100% civilian with just simple self defense class training for a CHL might not be capable of entering the fray, whereas an ex LEO or ex military might.

    It's all situational, as I said, and each scenario is unique.

    I do not carry because of anticipated danger, that is liberal bull to disarm people, making them prove need in order to obtain a license in order to exercise a right.

    I do not normally carry a long gun, even a LEO normally only has a long gun in a rack, not as s regular carry piece.
    I do not carry a smallish .380 acp as a primary arm, a full size sidearm is better for me as a general purpose arm since I don't normally carry a rifle.

    The general idea is to be armed and if nothing happens, even better ! Actual situations has little to do with it, being prepared does, also, locking the barn door after the horse is gone, comes to mind.

    Exaggerations and jokes have no place in discussions about personal defense, folks used to tell me nobody needs a handgun for defensive purposes, nobody needs an "assault rifle" or high capacity magazines for defensive purposes, so the antis passed an AWB during the Clinton years.....

    I am glad I don't listen to well intended fa la la.....
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 4,492 Senior Member
    I would do my best to help, since I carry a 44 or 45, IF there was a clear shot and IF there were no innocent people running for cover that might run into my line of fire, and IF I had some sort of cover. The same would apply if I had a scoped hi-power rifle.
    When the LEOs arrived I would just lay on the ground arms outstreached and clear of my weapon.

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    When I talk to school people about whether they should allow faculty to carry or have SROs carry I start with the following.
    "First let's stipulate a premise. If something really does happen I am not going to be at your school. You are going to be at your school. Therefore whatever we figure out has to be your solution not mine. I can facilitate thinking but it has to be what you want so you will do it.
    Now how do YOU feel about x..?" Ideally I am questioning the entire time and at the end of it they should not know my opinion but they should know their opinion.
    I kinda think that is a good place for people to start and why a forum like this is a good place to thresh out thinking, get holes poked in theories, and confront fallacies. All gun laws do not follow the above principle. All of them basically follow this premise, "I'm not going to be there but I am going to dictate how you can respond."
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    I do not carry because of anticipated danger, that is liberal bull to disarm people, making them prove need in order to obtain a license in order to exercise a right.

    Well, I carry because of possible threats. If for example, there were a fanciful and imaginary place where there was total and perfect assurance that there was zero danger from any sort of attack, animal or vegetable, ha ha, I'd probably not carry concealed. Why would I carry otherwise? If it were just to exhibit or be cognizant of my rights, then maybe I'd walk along yelling epithets and other things just to prove my free speech rights.

    But as I see it, it's not necessary to exhibit my rights each day in order to know I've got them.

    Example: Folks in Houston are most correctly advised to carry uninsured motorist insurance on their cars. This is because approximately 50% of all Houston drivers are either underinsured or non insured (thank you Mexico!). So it makes perfect sense and falls within the bounds of reason to carry that extra rider on your policy.

    I could, perhaps, take out a special policy against meteorites hitting my car. I'm certain there is a CHANCE of it happening, after all. But, being edumicated, I understand these things called "statistics" and "percent" and therefore make a rational judgment that I really am unlikely to face a hurtling chunk of space rock. Could it happen? Sure. Do I think it will? Nope.

    Likewise I've made a rational (hopefully rational -- I could be wrong, often am) assessment based on the relative danger in which I normally find myself from armed or otherwise threatening thugs (or wild animals, lions, tigers, bears). I only hear automatic weapons fire near where I live, oh, maybe every couple days or so, and the latest band of trained ninja invader Islamist thugs were just down the street last week. In other words, riot and general destruction of the neighborhood isn't a daily affair -- only weekly -- and so I've decided to "power down" and no longer wear body armor. It's been over a month since I had to shoot my way to my parked car from the Kroger front door (30 feet is hard going when you're under fire!) and I've not shot a terrorist invader for a couple weeks at least. So I've assessed the threat level and have decided that I probably don't need my pump shotgun or to carry 3 or 4 of my .45s belted around my waist like water bottles on a jogger. I'm pretty much okay with my .357 snubbie, I think. I'm a decent shot and I can account for myself fairly well, even though I've not shot any invading thugs for a while.

    In other words, I have assessed the threat level of where I live and have decided that I don't need to carry a long gun nor do I need more than 5 rounds of HP .357 +P. I can take down 1 or 2 attackers, at least I hope I can. Of course when I hear the automatic weapons fire passing my home, I hunker down, thankful for my armor plating on the walls and bulletproof windows! Whew!

    Each time we assess our upcoming behavior or actions or travel, we make judgment calls. For example, if it's forecast rain, I'll take an umbrella. If it's 80 and sunny, likely not. When the latest meteorite forecast is for 55% hits where I live, I'll wear my helmet (and aluminum foil under it!).

    I have uninsured driver insurance on my car, and good personal injury coverage, too. I've got renter insurance (being a LAD) in case of fire or other accidental damage. I got reimbursed for my laptop damage when a pipe busted. Makes perfect sense to me.

    I assess the threat levels of where I am, whether other drivers or thugs or UFO attack. I am after all scientifically trained and have a modest ability at statistics and judging the dangers where I am. Were there danger of, say, tiger attack, I'd likely be ready with my 12 gauge or maybe a semiauto carbine. I've however not seen any tigers around for most of this month. If however a tiger does eat me and my .357 isn't enough, fa la la to me. Duh.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    A Tiger would sniff you and pass, they want tender fresh meat, not tough stuff you need to pound all day !
    Joke ! ha ha !

    OK, as a LEO, I got used to wearing a sidearm every day, and I am a sidearm addict ........ I will start a chapter of side arms anonymous....... S.A. if anyone wants to join, pm me......

    The A.A. meeting follows right after the beers ! LoL......

    But you do go over board with the carry issue, how is carrying a simple sidearm such a big deal you need threat assessments and risk profiles and stacks of impact statements ?
    Then you bring up automobile insurance issues and far fetched tiger attacks etc.....

    If you simply said, I don't need to carry, I can't carry, kool, well spoken, but you extensively justify why you do not carry 24/7 as if you are trying to convince yourself too.

    Methinks thou dost protest too much...
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    A Tiger would sniff you and pass, they want tender fresh meat, not tough stuff you need to pound all day !
    Joke ! ha ha !

    OK, as a LEO, I got used to wearing a sidearm every day, and I am a sidearm addict ........ I will start a chapter of side arms anonymous....... S.A. if anyone wants to join, pm me......

    Methinks thou dost protest too much...

    Well, I'm glad you picked up on the silliness in my posting. I am a writer, after all, and I tend to mmm, exaggerate and blow steam a lot. I'm like the guy down at the end of the bar who won't stop talking, except that I'm not drinking and I use writing instead of spoken word.

    But being subject to a Shakespeare response? Classy! Take care, dude!

    btw, it's "The lady protests too much, methinks." spoken by Queen Gertrude.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    It was not a quote from Shakespeare, it was a classic English response to a great debate much like this one..
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • NomadacNomadac Senior Member Posts: 890 Senior Member
    I live in a small town 45,775 population with few soft targets that would present an opportunity for a likely terrorist attack. We have two Super Walmarts and one movie theater where they would find limited size crowds. I would suspect terrorists would choose larger targets like in Indianapolis, approx. 40 miles north of us.

    In the event I was in a situation that a terrorist attack did develop, I would first seek cover and access the threat, number of shooters, weapons, etc. before engaging. I would also call 911 to advise my observations, etc. and state I have a concealed carry permit, type of firearm and what I was wearing so the dispatcher could advise police responding do not shoot me, thinking I am a terrorist and in the general area I might be located.
    It also might be handy to have a blue tooth, and leave the cell phone connected so you could relay what is happening.

    As to weapon, I carry either my Colt Lt.Wt.Ofc.model .45 acp or my Colt Commander that has Crimson Trace grips, that in a low light situation enhance viewing the path of a bullet to prevent shooting an innocent civilian, and the pathway of any shots taken.
    Rushing into a gun fight without first assessing the situation seems like a good way to become a target. I would try to develop some type of strategy to disrupt the terrorist from focusing on innocent victims if possible. First determine the extent of the fire before you begin to attack it.

    I wonder how many terrorist realize how many Americans have CCWs in our country vs. other countries when guns are controlled and not available to the general population? It has been reported that during WWII the reason the Japanese did not attack the U.S. is because they knew many had firearms and would pose a real problem.
    Just my thoughts.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,271 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    It was not a quote from Shakespeare

    :rotflmao:
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,837 Senior Member
    Nomadac wrote: »
    It has been reported that during WWII the reason the Japanese did not attack the U.S. is because they knew many had firearms and would pose a real problem.
    Just my thoughts.

    The "rifle behind every blade of grass" comment is attributed to General Yamamoto....It has since been proven to be U.S. based propaganda...but it still sounded pretty cool...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    :rotflmao:

    What is the problem ??? I always liked to mess around with old English, how is that bad or to be made fun of ? I was not quoting anyone, simply responding to Sam's usual protests.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
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