Houston CHL customer stops robbery

samzheresamzhere BannedPosts: 10,923 Senior Member
Nice news for a change -- yesterday in Houston, 2 armed men tried to rob a seafood restaurant but a customer who has a CHL stopped the robbery. He held one of the robbers for police and fired at the other escaping robber. It's not known at this time whether he hit the fleeing thug.

The citizen is being hailed as a hero by the owners of the restaurant. Here's the story -- short but good to read:

http://www.khou.com/story/news/crime/2015/01/12/armed-customer-stops-restaurant-robbers-in-their-tracks/21663699/

Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

Replies

  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    The only thing I see wrong here is shooting at a fleeing suspect, that shot could have hit an innocent patron or anyone in the parking lot or beyond, thankfully, no innocent people were injured....... holding suspects is always difficult especially for folks that have no training in such matters......
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • LMLarsenLMLarsen Senior Member Posts: 8,337 Senior Member
    Exactly. In Virginia, once the attacker disengages and the threat subsides, if you continue to shoot you become the aggressor and are liable for charges.
    “A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”

    NRA Endowment Member
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Yes, I would rather let them go and have a good description, also, with all the fine phone based megapixel cameras out there, someone should take pictures of the bad guys and possibly tie them up or something, most people that CCW do not have a method for dealing with or securing bad guys once they surrender, ie handcuffing etc.... something to ponder, to quote an author: " if you grab a tiger by the tail, you better have a plan to deal with his teeth"....

    Tom Clancy: "if you kick a tiger in the butt, you better plan to deal with his teeth..."
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    LMLarsen wrote: »
    Exactly. In Virginia, once the attacker disengages and the threat subsides, if you continue to shoot you become the aggressor and are liable for charges.

    Shooting at a fleeing assaulter is generally okay here in Texas, slightly different from many other jurisdictions. But yes, the guy firing at the thug who was fleeing stepped over my personal line of shoot/not shoot. Technically the shooter was okay legally here, however.

    Myself, I might shoot at a fleeing thug if that person had just been assaulting, say, a loved one or had attempted to kill me. But generally, shooting at someone who's no longer a threat is not something I would do.

    The philosophy that's been stated in the forum by some, regarding this action, is that you're preventing the thug from assaulting another innocent person down the road, another time, another day perhaps. While I do understand that argument, I myself would not use this for justification to fire at their back. (Nor did I when it actually happened). Other people, okay, go ahead and shoot, just be prepared to undergo potential legal ramifications (depending on the jurisdictional climate and laws) and to live with the consequences morally.

    Totally agree generally with you, LM, regarding such action. Even though in Texas it's generally "okay" to shoot at a fleeing crook if the action is continuous and contiguous in one scenario (you can't wait an hour and then find and shoot the guy) I'd still not do it.

    However, I'll give this CHL guy the benefit of the doubt and will guess that he had a clear field of fire. He seemed to be accurate, too. The 3 bullet holes in the door glass were close together. So maybe he did hit the guy -- I've not seen any followup of a person showing up at the ER as yet.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    The NYS penal code specifically states if one believes that a fleeing criminal poses a danger to others by fleeing lethal force could be used to prevent that criminals escape.

    The issue I bring up is the possibility of harming an innocent bystander, shooting through glass can change trajectory of a bullet, and you can hurt an innocent party.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    The issue I bring up is the possibility of harming an innocent bystander, shooting through glass can change trajectory of a bullet, and you can hurt an innocent party.

    You're correct -- I'd not considered that. Generally I think it unwise to shoot at a fleeing criminal if there is now no threat. However I'm certain, that even if not hit, that robber will be thinking about those shots a long time.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,321 Senior Member
    I think the fleeing felon must be fleeing a "forcible felon", at least that's the SCOTUS decision in about 1988 or so applying to LEOs. Arising out of a officer shooting a felon fleeing from a burglary. Civilians aren't bound by that ruling, but I guess it varies state by state.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    As a LEO, the penal code is an important must read, I remember a loose leaf or snap ring version that could be updated by adding or replacing pages sent by mail on subscription. They published all the printed materials needed by LEOs....
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • Fat BillyFat Billy Senior Member Posts: 1,813 Senior Member
    No need to shoot at the other robber if you are allowed to beat the others into giving the identity of the 3rd guy. Shooting at the fleeing guy is dangerous as stated above. :nono: Later,
    Fat Billy

    Recoil is how you know primer ignition is complete.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    I think the fleeing felon must be fleeing a "forcible felon", at least that's the SCOTUS decision in about 1988 or so applying to LEOs. Arising out of a officer shooting a felon fleeing from a burglary. Civilians aren't bound by that ruling, but I guess it varies state by state.

    Correct, Gene, each state has its own concept on this, and of course certain jurisdictions within a state may be more pro-gun or more anti-gun. Here in Texas the law does allow shooting at fleeing felons and in the Houston area, prosecutors are decidedly pro-gun and rarely give static to a justifiable civilian shooting for "self defense" -- to wit the story I posted, where the civilian is being touted as a hero.

    Regardless, for me personally, it would take a lot of serious justification for me to fire at a fleeing felon who was no longer posing a threat. Each person needs to have that well thought out in advance, if possible -- at least, anyone who carries needs to be cognizant of the various scenarios and have made some mental prep on these issues. That's part of responsible civilian carry, as I see it.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Well, I don't know if they will let you beat confessions out of suspects just because you have a licence for concealed carry, but if a suspect decides to chance it and bolt because he was not impeded from flight, it is better to let him go and let the Police handle it from there...
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
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