Who needs guns when you have corn?

24

Replies

  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,224 Senior Member
    Doc, I couldn't care less how armed you are 24/7, if that matters. Which it seems to. You may live in a sewer, I do not. What this has to do with school shootings and arming kids with cans of vegetables escapes me entirely, but I guess it makes sense to you.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • Fat BillyFat Billy Senior Member Posts: 1,813 Senior Member
    OK, I need clarification. If the bad guys have high blood pressure will the kids catch heat for throwing non low sodium cans? Throwing anything may be a problem since many schools have stopped playing dodge ball and no winners are allowed. :silly: Later,
    Fat Billy

    Recoil is how you know primer ignition is complete.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    Doc, I couldn't care less how armed you are 24/7, if that matters. Which it seems to. You may live in a sewer, I do not. What this has to do with school shootings and arming kids with cans of vegetables escapes me entirely, but I guess it makes sense to you.

    You are just never satisfied, either people are paranoid if they are armed 24/7 with you pontificating and defining what is safe, when should folks go armed or not armed etc...... so if people want to use cans of veggies as improvised weapons because they have been disarmed, you call them lame.

    The great King Gene determines all things great & small !
    We all bow before the mighty King Gene !!!!
    ROFLMAO !!!!!!!

    You will never get it, I carry not because of a threat level or fear of anything, I would rather be prepared regardless, rabid animals, folks trying to do whatever, anyone can go insane suddenly, so no matter how safe things may seem, bad things can happen at anytime to anyone.

    Safe ? We thought airports and air travel was safe, then 9/11/01, two planes were crashed into the WTC buildings intentionally, I lived through that incident, so little wonder I feel the way I do.....
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,224 Senior Member
    I'm all in favor of disarming first graders. I wouldn't trust their self control to arm them with cans of corn, actually. Which is why we had those round blade scissors when I was in elementary school.

    I'm sorry, the principal who thought this up is beyond lame. She's silly.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,508 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    There are only so many jokes to be made about such idiocy, but when I read the story, I was simply dumbfounded. How could someone be so stupid? Not only is it silly and useless, but should an event like a school shooting occur, kids who tried to do this would end up being shot first. Not that it makes any difference -- the idea is so goofy that I'm guessing that this teacher will be laughed at even by other teachers.

    Thanks, twa, for the funny story!

    Yeah,ha,ha,ha. Funny. A teacher trying to address the fact that her and her students are pretty much helpless, sitting ducks inside a classroom if someone walks in shooting.

    Stupid, silly, goofy, funny.

    Would it be better if someone was armed, yes. But, I'd guess that a can of corn beats a sharp stick.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,200 Senior Member
    If improvised weapons are not included in a plan for self defense, you just aren't thinking. Typically, that is the only option for most children. While not the best option, it is better than no option.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    I remember a time I carried a tuned up .31 caliber C&B revolver because it was all I had at the time, lame? You betcha !!!! came in handy when I needed it though..........

    The mindset to defend oneself is very important...
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,274 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    I'm all in favor of disarming first graders. I wouldn't trust their self control to arm them with cans of corn, actually. Which is why we had those round blade scissors when I was in elementary school.

    I'm sorry, the principal who thought this up is beyond lame. She's silly.

    Middle school, that's like 5th graders. 20 cans of corn coming at the BG at once is better than the current plan of action, hide behind a file cabinet in my grandaughters case.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,224 Senior Member
    How is it better?
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Because it is better to die fighting, like the guy on one of the planes on 9/11/01 that decided to attack the hijackers crashing the plane and averting perhaps a worse disaster and carnage.

    If a hijacker threatens me and tells me to get on my knees so he can shoot me in the head, I would rather die trying to break his scrawny neck..

    That is how it is better.....
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,842 Senior Member
    Being in my local news region, (100-120 miles east of me) I've seen interviews with the principal, some of the parents etc,

    The principal admits it's a LAST DITCH EFFORT when the "wolf" is LITERALLY "AT the door" of a particular classroom. the kids have SOMETHING to do to try and slow down the shooter.

    Yep, kids are probably going to get killed. HOWEVER, I expect there will be fewer fatalities than there would be if everyone in that classroom just cowered and screamed.
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    When I was a little boy, bullies chased me, I pelted them with rocks or bolts I carried in my pocket, between that and having keys to many buildings front doors, I avoided lots of beat downs, until I found a more definitive defense to avoid getting beaten to death by those gangs.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,224 Senior Member
    Seems to me you're making life or death choices for 5th graders as well as projecting adult decisions on ten-year-old kids. Best would be to not have school shooters at all, better would be intercept them in the hallways, good would lock the doors and hide. I don't see 5th graders tossing cans as fitting into the this matrix. We're not talking about hijackers threatening adults here, and we're not talking about throwing rocks at bullies, we're talking about middle school students. Jesus.

    It's a goofy idea, last ditch or no.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    I faced lots of stuff in the 5th and 6th grades, left back students were the terrorists of Elementary school.....
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,508 Senior Member
    So, they're guaranteed to live if they cower in the corner?
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,842 Senior Member
    jbohio wrote: »
    So, they're guaranteed to live if they cower in the corner and scream?
    Sorry, had to add "scream", You KNOW a bunch of kids in an emergency situation are going to scream.
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    My passport tells a good yarn, all three of them, that alone is something.
    Also why I never married....... I have paid a high price......
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,452 Senior Member
    Is it a stupid idea? Sure, but we live in a stupid world. Back in the day, many schools had shooting clubs, kids would go hunting or even just plinking around before or after school and leave their guns in their cars or even in their lockers. I built a cap and ball replica of a .44 Remington in my school's black powder club. Many schools even had ranges in the basement to be used by club members or local cops, etc.

    These days, we hear stories about cops being asked not to pick up or drop off their kids while in uniform, because seeing a gun (or apparently, even just a badge, or insignia) might be 'upsetting' to school children, or veterans being asked the same because kids know that veterans fight wars and kill people.

    Frankly, with today's sissified approach to daily living, I guess a can of corn beats huddling behind a locked door and wishing a shooter gone with happy thoughts. Just give me a doubled-up pillow case to swing mine around in.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,049 Senior Member
    I'm not exactly sure why some of you think this is a stupid idea....but you're not thinking it through...

    For years we have been teaching our kids that standing up for yourself and fighting back is a bad thing...we punish our children for it. We have taken it to the point that a large number of our kids won't fight back even if it's to save their own lives. Look at Virginia Tech and any number of other shooting where victims simply cowered beneath their desks awaiting execution....when at one time a show of force and violence of action on the part of the victims would have saved many lives

    Here we have a member of the educational community getting the message out that "It's OK to fight back!" and you have a problem with that? While the idea of hurling canned produce may seem silly at first....that an armed teacher or armored doors would be better...of course they would...but why wait for the money to appear to upgrade security? or for people to suddenly be OK with teachers packing guns....do SOMETHING! And in this case..."something" is teaching those kids that resistance is NOT futile or a bad thing.

    As for Sam's comment that the kids hurling cans would be the first to be shot...I have to ask....if you have a person in the classroom bent on killing everyone in it...does it really matter if you are the first to go or the last?

    The concept of stockpiling crap to throw at a bad guy is not all that bad an idea....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,842 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    I'm not exactly sure why some of you think this is a stupid idea....but you're not thinking it through...

    For years we have been teaching our kids that standing up for yourself and fighting back is a bad thing...we punish our children for it. We have taken it to the point that a large number of our kids won't fight back even if it's to save their own lives. Look at Virginia Tech and any number of other shooting where victims simply cowered beneath their desks awaiting execution....

    Here we have a member of the educational community getting the message out that "It's OK to fight back!" and you have a problem with that? While the idea of hurling canned produce may seem silly at first....that an armed teacher or armored doors would be better...of course they would...but why wait for the money to appear? or for people to suddenly be OK with teachers packing guns....do SOMETHING! And in this case...something is teaching those kids that resistance is NOT futile or a bad thing.

    As for Sam's comment that the kids hurling cans would be the first to be shot...I have to ask....if you have a person in the classroom bent on killing everyone in it...does it really matter if you are the first to go or the last?
    EXACTLY...
    Well said Mr. Hawker
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,452 Senior Member
    I don't have a problem with a fight back mindset, I have a problem with this being the best we can come up with, due to a bureaucratic mindset. Frankly, there are about 15 things in almost any classroom that could be used fairly handily as a weapon. Food cans aren't a BAD weapon, but how did we get to the point of that being the first choice in somebody's head?
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,508 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    I'm not exactly sure why some of you think this is a stupid idea....but you're not thinking it through...

    For years we have been teaching our kids that standing up for yourself and fighting back is a bad thing...we punish our children for it. We have taken it to the point that a large number of our kids won't fight back even if it's to save their own lives. Look at Virginia Tech and any number of other shooting where victims simply cowered beneath their desks awaiting execution....when at one time a show of force and violence of action on the part of the victims would have saved many lives

    Here we have a member of the educational community getting the message out that "It's OK to fight back!" and you have a problem with that? While the idea of hurling canned produce may seem silly at first....that an armed teacher or armored doors would be better...of course they would...but why wait for the money to appear to upgrade security? or for people to suddenly be OK with teachers packing guns....do SOMETHING! And in this case..."something" is teaching those kids that resistance is NOT futile or a bad thing.

    As for Sam's comment that the kids hurling cans would be the first to be shot...I have to ask....if you have a person in the classroom bent on killing everyone in it...does it really matter if you are the first to go or the last?

    The concept of stockpiling crap to throw at a bad guy is not all that bad an idea....

    Well said. Spot on
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,200 Senior Member
    Middle school in my area is 6-8th grade. I have a 12 year old 6th grader and a 14 year old 8th grader for children. The 14 year old is 5' 10" and about 140 pounds. The 12 year old is 5' 5" and about 155 pounds. I think either one of them could take down an Adam Lanza, Eric Harris or a Dylan Klebold with their back turned. They have to have their backs turned to somebody at some point in time.

    Doing absolutely nothing is no longer an option.
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,508 Senior Member
    coolgunguy wrote: »
    I don't have a problem with a fight back mindset, I have a problem with this being the best we can come up with, due to a bureaucratic mindset. Frankly, there are about 15 things in almost any classroom that could be used fairly handily as a weapon. Food cans aren't a BAD weapon, but how did we get to the point of that being the first choice in somebody's head?

    Probably because it's the only choice she's allowed. And, easily affordable.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,049 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    Seems to me you're making life or death choices for 5th graders as well as projecting adult decisions on ten-year-old kids.

    Bullcrap Gene...the guy trying to kill them has already made the life or death choices for them. Would it be better to end the situation BEFORE the BG gets to the classroom? Yep...sure as hell it would be...it would be better if they didn't get into the building at all....but "things" don't always work out for the best...life is funny that way...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,246 Senior Member
    jbohio wrote: »
    Probably because it's the only choice she's allowed. And, easily affordable.

    Not to mention they plan on giving the food to a food bank at the end of the year
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    If improvised weapons are not included in a plan for self defense, you just aren't thinking. Typically, that is the only option for most children. While not the best option, it is better than no option.

    I try to teach my family that just about anything can be used as a weapon. Being slightly paranoid I do catch myself looking at my surroundings and thinking. It sucks that it is almost a game with my kid to see what he sees. As stated many times previous he always goes for the fire extinguisher. He also likes Heinz ketchup bottles and such for some clubs. We were in the an area diner and he pointed out the coffee pot. It sucks that some of us have resorted to teaching our kids things like this but when I think about it what is the difference between SD survival and wilderness survival? You do what you gotta do to keep 'em alive.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 10,919 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    A weapon without instruction and practice is not of much use. They have far deadlier things at their disposal like sharp pencils and pens and don't know how to rush and overwhel an assailant, so these too are of little use.

    I'd rather they'd keet a big basket of croquet hardwood balls in the corner and teach all the kids how to throw and practice weekly for accuracy.

    You use what is in your hand at the time, my older kids have seen a certain movie scene with Joe Pesci and a ballpoint pen, my sons have been told that if the crap is hitting the fan, get up and do something before it is done to you. My wife has happened to be helping in my oldests classroom when he was in grade school and they had an intruder lock down drill, my kid was the only one that grabbed a "weapon" on on his way to hide in the closet. They are already half nuts from thirteen to eighteen anyway, self defense should be easy if they know they are allowed to defend themselves, the principal at least has them thinking that you should be thinking self-defense, albeit with a canned good.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,200 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    A weapon without instruction and practice is not of much use.
    While I do not play the sport, would you think that I would more or less dangerous with a baseball bat? I will agree that if I were to practice and be trained by an instructor, I could be more lethal with less time and effort with one, but I could still put a world of hurt on someone without it.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,224 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    Bullcrap Gene...the guy trying to kill them has already made the life or death choices for them. Would it be better to end the situation BEFORE the BG gets to the classroom? Yep...sure as hell it would be...it would be better if they didn't get into the building at all....but "things" don't always work out for the best...life is funny that way...

    I'm just not sure it's better to have kids throwing cans of food at terrorists. To me, it's better to lock the door and deny them access. This worked at the Va Tech shooting. A door wedge is cheap and would stand up to anything a shooter is likely to have with him.

    The food donation is a great idea, of course. But if this principal is dedicated to having kids throw things at shooters, she should get enough scissors for each student to have a pair (since knives are not legal) keep them in her desk and in case of a shooter, issue the scissors to throw. One and done. At least they're sharp.

    Sometimes it's hard to take some people seriously. I can't believe this idea was even considered. Throwing cans of food? This smacks of a liberal answer, either that or it's a joke. If the principal is THAT worried about a shooter, she should secretly carry a gun, but I doubt this fits her agenda. Instead, she puts the onus on middle school students to fend for themselves. Who's the responsible one in this situation? Who would be more likely to stop an armed terrorist, a kid throwing a can of peas, or a woman with a gun? So long as she didn't show it around, no one would ever know she was armed.

    Someone almost said it earlier; the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Not with a can of beans.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
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