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snake284 wrote: »
What you gonna do? Sit in the car until he leaves? or Attacks your car? You gonna call the cops because some bum is sitting around in the area? They're gonna appreciate having to respond to that.
No, this is why we carry, so we don't have to sweat the BG. You never know whether the perceived threat will be real or not. I don't know what the outcome would have been in KC or any other city, but Houston is in Texas and our laws cover us for self defense. I think I would have done the very same thing Sam did.
JKP wrote: »
Since you are still fishing for input....
Regardless of whether it is your right or within the law, if a potential conflict can be avoided avoid it! You sure do find lots of opportunities to "skin that smoke wagon..."
JKP wrote: »
That isn't what I am going to do but it is what I recommend an older gentleman with limited mobility do.
DanChamberlain wrote: »
May I suggest a change in verbiage? etc etc.
BAMAAK wrote: »
Shooting an unarmed person cause you don't like the way he looks or he is to close to you shouldn't be ok anywhere. If an act of agression takes place, by all means do what you need to. Walking in your direction and looking homeless is not an act of agression IMO. Sam said if he had gotten 8 feet from him he would have feared for his life which I take to mean he would at least be preparing to shoot if not pulling the trigger. The guy did not respond to his commands. Well guess what, he didn't have to, Sam has no authority to give him commands. I get within 8 feet of people all the time and sometimes I'm grubby looking so I should be shot for that? I should shoot someone for invading my space? Self defense is one thing, paranoia is another. If you're that affraid of people, live in a gated community or out in the sticks, not in a big city. Shooting unarmed bums just gives antis reason to hate us more.
BAMAAK wrote: »
Sam has no authority to give him commands.
Jayhawker wrote: »
The law (at least in those states that follow the Florida model) says you have no duty to retreat from any place you have a legal right to be and that deadly force is allowable should you be in fear for your life or great bodily harm. That is going to vary from person to person.
Respectfully...Do you understand the concept of Disparity of Force?
...you've heard of the Tueller Drill? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill There's a reason people train at 3 yards (21 feet)......
Zee wrote: »
7 yards.........not 3
So, if what you stated above is true and I understand you correctly.........the man had "no duty to retreat" when Sam said "go away" and could have shot Sam when he brandished his gun had he feared for his life? No?
samzhere wrote: »
That somehow abbreviates my rights? I'm older so I have to knuckle under? Which Bill of Rights or which Constitution are you reading from?
The simple fact that I'm no longer 22 years old and fit and trim and stacked with Shotokan training does not obviate my rights. We carry firearms BECAUSE we might not be able to physically fight off an attacker.
Gene L wrote: »
I wouldn't have drawn my gun, but I'd have had it in hand. I don't believe in displaying a firearm, no matter what the NRA says. You both had a right to be where you were, and he had a right to approach you, you had a right to tell him to stop.
Lots of food for thought here. I hope everyone pays it the attention it deserves.
Dr. db wrote: »
I don't understand the problem with "displaying" a weapon. At that point aren't you trying to AVOID a deadly force encounter? Isn't it the rattle snake rattle to warn the dirt ball before deadly force is employed?
JKP wrote: »
One more time, it has nothing to do with your rights. Your livelihood and that of others is the important part. Sure you can be the tough guy and not go out of your way to avoid conflict but keep in mind you have stated many times you are infirm and have limited mobility. What if the guy had quickly disarmed you and thrown you a beating or worse? Being cautious and hanging out in the car for a bit would seem like a good idea at that point.
It isn't like the guy kicked your door down with a machete in his hand. Maybe he just moved into apt 5a and wanted to ask you where to score some weed? Maybe he was visiting Aunt Martha and wanted to invite you over for dinner so the old lady would have some company?
Stacked with Shotokan training....lol.
horselips wrote: »
I can't believe I read the whole thing. Bottom line, you're still a L.A.D.
samzhere wrote: »
You shoulda skipped to my sigline and saved time.
samzhere wrote: »
An update: yesterday afternoon (Feb 3) I got a call from one of the cops who took my case report. He swung by my place and showed me a mugshot photo of the guy who'd approached me. The guy had just been arrested in the area, maybe a mile from where I live, when spotted trying to bust into a parked truck, but the cops nabbed him. He's got a bunch of outstanding warrants, including aggravated assault (muggings) and burglary, plus of course parole jumping. Bye bye.
So maybe the guy wasn't inviting me to a birthday party or asking for directions to the Statue of Liberty after all. (Statue of Liberty, joke from the movie Midnight Cowboy).
As an aside, we've got a damn fine bunch of local cops in our near-town neighborhood, a substation about 5 blocks from where we live. What goes around comes around or however you wanna label it, but our area (the Houston "Montrose" district) is fulla gays and musicians and artists, plus a gentrification on the last few years for more empty nesters, retired (ahem) or semi-retired, a bit upscale but not necessarily wealthy. The major attributes of the citizens here where we live could be summed up as decently well educated (formal or hard knocks) and mind yer own biz mentality.
In other words, not a lot of screaming midnight fights over who drank the last beer, just people who want to get along with their lives and who are happy to get the cops involved if necessary but reluctantly. And the general type of regular cop assigned to the area is a reflection of the generally law abiding citizens: experienced and pleasant and no cops with an attitude. Professional describes it perfectly.
Some folks here have a general distrust of cops and I don't necessarily disagree with this, but after seeing that the cops you interact with are pros and sensible and okay people, it makes it a plus. Back when I was a raging hippie in my 20s I had an adversarial relationship with cops but that changed after I grew up, ha ha. I've rarely regretted being cordial or pleasant w. street cops over the years and it has benefited me.
My point is this: The cop had zero reason to phone me up and drive by my place to show me the pic of the guy who was in my complaint. He was simply being a good cop returning the favor of a "good citizen" -- and understand, when I filed the original complaint, I didn't rant and rave and holler about how I shoulda "plugged the thug" or made myself appear off-base to the cops. I just told them what happened in a calm manner and provided a fairly accurate description of the guy.
The cops weren't in a huge rush when they took my report, and so I chatted a bit. I told them that I'd been carrying the .357 snubbie for a while but I also occasionally carried my Glock 36. The cop who came back yesterday had a Glock sidearm and when we chatted a few days ago, I saw it and asked him "forty-five?" because I saw it was full size but couldn't determine the caliber. "No, ten mil" and he pulled it out and showed it to me (I don't remember the model number but it was the full size "standard" 10mm model).
So we talked a bit and I told him that I'd shot 10mm before, quite a kick, he said yeah, but he liked it and was now used to it. His buddy had a nice Sig 9mm and said that he'd tried his pal's ten and it was a handful. Then I told them that my "go-to" home gun was my 1911 or my XD, both .45s. And so on...
Point I'm trying to make is this: If I'd been the angered citizen who made a big hoohaw about this guy who came toward me, complaining that the cops need to be making our streets safe instead of sitting on their butts at Starbucks, that sort thing, they would have mentally marked me as "jerk" and it would have been right. But I chatted with the cops like they were human beings and focused on my fave firearms and that I was glad the cops were here and so on, they remembered this, which was why the 10mm cop (he was the older one) took the courtesy to give me the news.
I've always thanked cops and even when I got a speeding ticket a few years ago, I shook the cop's hand, said "Be safe out there, officer".
They appreciate this and although my actions with them were not fake and were genuine, regardless, it's money in the bank for me. If there is anything that might someday happen and I need their help or cooperation, fact that I was a "good citizen" is a plus.
We here in Texas are pretty damn lucky -- and I'm sure it's the same elsewhere -- that the street cops, those who really matter (not some deputy chief in an office), these cops LIKE folks who have concealed permits and they regard them as friends and not the "dumb citizen sheepie" type.
Yeah, there are jerk cops. But luckily, the cops in this area are pretty decent and professional.
And if anything else were to happen, maybe like next year, one of the cops might say "Oh, yeah. That's that guy I talked to, has the forty-fives. An okay guy."
Bottom line, I try to keep a cordial and friendly relationship with the beat cops around here. I wave at them and give them a little sloppy salute, and if they're in earshot, I always tell 'em "Stay safe, officer." And that's how I genuinely feel. Can't hurt, eh?
Anyway, wanted to give y'all the update and make some comments on beat cops in general. Thoughts?
Varget wrote: »
Well of course the guy ended up being a thug :roll:
samzhere wrote: »
Point is, others made snarky remarks that "How did I know the guy was a threat?" when this 6-foot guy was walking toward me, and that maybe he was asking for directions or something. So I'm gonna wait till some person is close enough to lay hands on me? Apparently they would have just stood there. But I wanted to validate my original assessment of the guy. That's the why. You say "of course" but in accordance to others here, I shoulda just stood there because, well, he MIGHT have been inviting me to a birthday party? Yeah, right.
coolgunguy wrote: »
Was he carrying a big cardboard check? He could have been from Publisher's Clearing House...just sayin'
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