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Big Al1
Senior MemberPosts: 7,052 Senior Member
BiMetal bullet jackets!!
Big Al1
Senior MemberPosts: 7,052 Senior Member
When I go to the range, I always like to take a blaster along just to burn ammo and shoot the gongs so I'm not interested in precision accuracy. Since most of these are some form of military (AR platform of .45 auto, etc) semi-auto, and since I don't reload for semi's and hate picking up brass, I've been shooting some of the cheap Russian, steel case bimetal ammo. Yesterday, the range officer pointed out that the bimetal jacket is actually a copper washed steel jacketed lead core that appears to be a full copper jacket. He showed that the bullets are magnetic, and the copper wash is so thin that the rifling cuts into the steel jacket. What is boils down to, if you want to wear out your barrel fast, shoot bimetal!! When I got home I did some research and found this great article. Well, I learned something and I figured I'd pass on the info and give everyone a heads up, if you were not aware of this.
http://uspsa.org/front-sight-magazine-article.php?Should-I-Buy-BiMetal-Ammo-8
http://uspsa.org/front-sight-magazine-article.php?Should-I-Buy-BiMetal-Ammo-8
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I'm not sure how much wear a Bi-Metal bullet puts on a bbl. Plenty of Mosin Nagants have and other guns have survived over 100 years with steel core ammo and much worse with corrosive ammo. But that is a small steel core inside a lead core, but is it Bi-metal on the outside, the ammo?
The shallow rifling in CZ 82s may not rub as much on Bi-metal bullets...........I dunno. I see his point very well, though.
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
Jerry
ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
We have the magnetic police out here. I shut down the range and had the owner out there when I caught one of those clowns going through my shooting bag while I was shooting at the bench.
I'm not concerned about what a Nagant or SKS can digest, but if you care about something worth more than 100 bucks, I wouldn't shoot!!
Here we go!!:tooth:
I care very much for my Garand and the Armalite AR-10 and I'm kinda fond of the mini-30 also. As I have said these rifles have fired a bunch of that ammo with no damage to the barrel and accuracy is quite impressive.
Here We go. {Next year}:jester:
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
Hardened tool steel has a rockwell hardness of 650/700 Brinell. Mild steel has a hardness of 120/130. Bi-metal jackets are made from very soft mild steel. Bores/barrels are at least as hard as tool steel and when chrome plated are even harder.
Steel jacketed bullets are nothing new. The US had steel jacketed bullets in WWII chambered in 30-06 and 45 ACP. The M1 ball and M2 AP rounds of the era used steel jackets over a lead core with a copper wash over the steel -- just like Wolf bi-metal bullets.
Frankford Arsenal conducted a test with steel jacketed 30-06 rounds around 1946 to determine if the rumors that steel jacketed bullets damaged the barrels more than copper jacketed bullets were true. In their testing they found that steel jacketed bullets not only didn't accelerate wear but they also discovered for the first 1000 rounds steel jacketed rounds were actually more accurate! After 1000 rounds the accuracy leveled off to be comparable to the copper jacketed bullets but no evidence of accelerated wear was discovered through 8,000 rounds of testing on their samples.
https://www.facebook.com/militaryarms/posts/516101628401641
"Military Arms Channel
November 7, 2012 ·
I get asked all the time "will bi-metal bullets harm my bore". The answer is no, they won't. Here's why.
Hardened tool steel has a rockwell hardness of 650/700 Brinell. Mild steel has a hardness of 120/130. Bi-metal jackets are made from very soft mild steel. Bores/barrels are at least as hard as tool steel and when chrome plated are even harder.
Steel jacketed bullets are nothing new. The US had steel jacketed bullets in WWII chambered in 30-06 and 45 ACP. The M1 ball and M2 AP rounds of the era used steel jackets over a lead core with a copper wash over the steel -- just like Wolf bi-metal bullets.
Frankford Arsenal conducted a test with steel jacketed 30-06 rounds around 1946 to determine if the rumors that steel jacketed bullets damaged the barrels more than copper jacketed bullets were true. In their testing they found that steel jacketed bullets not only didn't accelerate wear but they also discovered for the first 1000 rounds steel jacketed rounds were actually more accurate! After 1000 rounds the accuracy leveled off to be comparable to the copper jacketed bullets but no evidence of accelerated wear was discovered through 8,000 rounds of testing on their samples.
In short, bi-metal bullets do not do any more damage to your firearms than conventional copper jacketed rounds do. All the claims of chamber wear, throat erosion and barrel wear are unsubstantiated wives tales."
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
he left out the last paragraph..............................either a very nice guy or it didn't copy/highlight right..................
"In short, bi-metal bullets do not do any more damage to your firearms than conventional copper jacketed rounds do. All the claims of chamber wear, throat erosion and barrel wear are unsubstantiated wives tales."
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
Nickel = well, nickel.
Also has some iron and manganese mixed in. They switched to copper (gilding metal) to reduce metal fouling.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupronickel#Other_usage
Thanks, this place is a wealth of info, who needs a Shell Answer Man when we gots this forum!
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
Just like on here when like my Sig line says.............however I wanted to capture the essence of the authors assessment...........not really but sounded cool anyhow :jester:
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
Just don't fire Bi-metal ammo in a .270, the barrel will melt and set the stock on fire :jester:
I don't have any qualms about firing it in my MILSURPS, especailly those that probably of had thousands of rounds of it pushed down the bore long before I acquired them. Also, in my CZ/Polish pistols.
I think the explanation of the hardness of the steel in the bullet compared to the barrel hardness makes sense. However, there is an argument not to use/be cautious using stainless steel cleaning brushes because they are hard on barrels and even steel cleaning rods, so it does make one wonder.
The issued cleaning rods in the Army are tool grade steel (very sturdy anyhow) that fit in the butt-stock and they do fit the bores fairly tight and I never heard of any issues from using them PROPERLY.
GIs are resourceful in our Army and most others and believe me can find ways unheard of/unimagined to get around anything supposedly "GI Proof" after spending 20 years as one myself and 15 more working with them. I often was called on to do Report Of Surveys and ECODs on equipment damaged by them if they should be held liable.
Good post, thank you and I'm anxious to see everyone responses.
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
Jerry
ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
I prefer personal experience. My experiences have been very good. Has anyone here damaged a barrel from this stuff.
- Don Burt
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/
Paddle faster!!! I hear banjos.
Reason for editing: correcting my auto correct
Thanks Mike!! Great test!
I had to dig for a while to find that one! It does answer the question about the bimetal jackets, and the different types of ammunition.
Well quit shootin those old white tip kitchen matches with your .45 :tooth:
Good report Mike. That was ARs, what about bolt rifles? Never will be fired that much.
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
Been thinking on the subject of action types and the steel cased bullets all afternoon, off and on. Here's what my feeble mind comes up with. Regardless of action type, steel will be harder on barrels than copper, or gilding metal, jackets. It's not just a matter of hardness, it also is a matter of friction between bullet and barrel. And the rifling will cut deeper than the copper wash over the bullet and into the steel jacket. There is also the actual thickness of the steel jacket; the thicker the jacket, the more it will oppose the deformation of the rifling on the jacket and up the friction. Steel will have a higher coefficient of friction than copper.
FWIW, if aluminum were much cheaper, and recycled more, bullet jackets of copper washed aluminum would be much more friendly to the lands and grooves of barrels. Soft aluminum alloys are actually as soft or softer than the copper plating, or a copper jacketed bullet.