I dont believe I am posting this up about the 270.........but.......

orchidmanorchidman Senior MemberPosts: 7,731 Senior Member
I have been invited to go help a buddy cull some wild bulls in a couple of weeks. He told me that these things are wild and dangerous and then specified that the minimum calibre that the land owner will allow is a 270. ( Apparently the landowner is 'old school' and was an avid follower of Elmer Keith to the extent that he only ever used a 270 for hunting.....and he is also a great fan of pre 64 mod 70's according to my buddy )

The choices I have available ( and practical) are the Pre64 Mod 70's in 270, 30.06 and 375H&H Magnum. I have discounted the 10.75X68 due to only having a handful of rounds and I want to save them)

I figured it was about time I got off my arse and set up the 270 which has been languishing in the gunsafe unfired since I bought it.
The 30.06 is scoped.......thanks to wambli and has drawn blood.......the 375 is scoped and has yet to draw blood.......the 270 is sans scope and although it has been described as a perfectly adequate coyote rifle on here, all joking aside, I think its about time I took her to a 'dance'.

For those that don't remember what she looked like here she is along with the other 3 pre64's that I 'stole' at an auction a few years back. She is the top rifle in the pic.

Turkeyhunt2model70010.jpg

She has a custom stock ( by Monte Kennedy) and the previous owner ( a collector of pre 64 mod 70's) had never mounted a scope on her and she remains unfired from the day she left the factory. ( Three of the 4 mod 70s in the above pic were collectors items and had never been fired btw)

Here are a couple of close ups.

Felicesmummodel70047.jpg

Felicesmummodel70049.jpg

I think that it would be appropriate to set her up and see what she can do, esp in view of the landowners view of both the calibre and the rifle.

I already have ideas about the setup I have planned for the rifle but I am open to ideas on which factory loading to use, bearing in mind the intended 'targets'.

What bullet weight do you reckon for wild bulls.........they (according to my friend are fully grown) and he suggests the heaviest factory loading I can get.
( Not having any experience in the calibre I figured I would ask you guys for advice rather than just pick up whatever is the heaviest load from any of the major ammunition makers.)

So.........what say you.............Linefinder, Snake, other 270 owner/hunters ???

Edited to add: BTW, the pics above don't do her justice........she is a truly beautiful custom stocked rifle.....
Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
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Replies

  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,803 Senior Member
    Same as an Elk or even Bison if the are large bulls. 30-06 with 180 gr pills would be excellent medicine and the .375 better.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • HAWKENHAWKEN Senior Member Posts: 1,688 Senior Member
    Alec, That is truly a beautiful rifle, outstanding grain. The .270, like the .243 kills much better than it should. I have taken a 255 pound whitetail, a 250 and a 300 pound wild boar using 130 grain Barns TSX bullets over max charges of H-1000. If those bulls are as big as those on that large island West of you, (OA), I would probably go with the 150 grain ones. BTW, on the 300 pound hog, entry was through the bony shoulder shield, through the far shield and stopped just under the skin. Both lungs looked like jello............Robin
    I don't often talk to people that voted for Obama, but when I do I order large fries!
    Life member of the American Legion, the VFW, the NRA and the Masonic Lodge, retired LEO
  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,025 Senior Member
    Jack O'Connor was the .270 lover, Elmer Keith liked rifles with calibers starting at .338 and on up. I'd take the .375 H&H.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    You're a fool to shoot an unfired pre-64 Winchester a model 70.

    Sell it and fund your next trip to the SE Shoot! :tooth:

    I'm not sure what it would bring in NZ, but a pretty penny in the US of A.

    In fact Alex, I'm not even sure what one like that would bring here?????


    Second school of thought would be as one of our late great gun writers (Skeeter Skelton) more or less once told a reader in a letter to the editor.............shoot that gun while you can and are still alive and able to, why let some SOB enjoy it after you are gone.


    At any rate, beautiful rifle. :up::up::up::up:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,055 Senior Member
    While the 6.8 Long will undoubtedly get the job done...this job cries out for the .375 H&H.....it could be like Cape Buffalo hunting....sorta, kinda...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • FreezerFreezer Senior Member Posts: 1,496 Senior Member
    First that is a beautful rifle. It has a raised cheek to cry on when the 270 bounces off the frail old bull.

    I'd take the 375 H&H.
    I like Elmer Keith; I married his daughter :wink:
  • 1965Jeff1965Jeff Senior Member Posts: 1,611 Senior Member
    Are you planning on head shots only? Shoot the big first and see how your intended quarry reacts to 375 medicine.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,419 Senior Member
    The .270 was developed around the 130 grain bullet. Once you step up to 150's, you've got a .30-06 that makes a slightly smaller entry wound. Jack O'Connor thought it was a lightning bolt because game dropped at the shot, mostly because of high muzzle velocity, not necessarily knockdown power. I'd recommend using the heaviest bullet you can find, and if round nosed solids are available. use them. Keep the shots short, and keep firing until the critters stop moving!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    A wise man here says "Not too many problems you can't fix ... With a 1911 and a 30-06" and without knowing the size of bulls you will be facing little bigger is better here.

    As to round choice I'd start at 180gr Nosler (since it's a bonded round especially) cause they hit hard and tend to retain their weight.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 8,664 Senior Member
    Very good looking rifle. Unless taking head shots I would use a larger caliber.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 7,731 Senior Member
    Jack O'Connor was the .270 lover, Elmer Keith liked rifles with calibers starting at .338 and on up. I'd take the .375 H&H.

    My apologies to Elmer Keith........He did say Jack O'Connor...........My only excuse is that I cant remember the last day off I had, between working on the orchids during the week and the charter boat weekends my mind is playing tricks on me......I cant even remember what I had for dinner 2 days ago......which is why I am looking forward to dealing to some wild bulls.

    I will be taking the 375 as my 'preferred calibre', but I figured it would be an appropriate time to do something with the 270............and, if I can find a heavy load that shoots accurately , then I would like to blood it on the first animal ( preferably a head shot) and save the 375 for close in work........

    Apparently these bulls are 'loners' and they rarely group together so I am hoping that I get the opportunity to 'pick' one off with a head/top of the neck shot using the 270.

    ( I will also have the 222 Sako along for the ride........:tooth:)
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 7,731 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    You're a fool to shoot an unfired pre-64 Winchester a model 70.

    Pffffffffffft............this coming from someone who has a love affair with thumbhole stocks!!!

    ...............and I agree with BC............why let some other SOB get the pleasure.......
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    Do you want pretty or do you want, "Put the sorry sack of BS down?" They are all pretty BTW you suck and not just because you have 70 year old port. 375 H & H if you can put it where you want it and won't get the flinches late in the day. I've heard those things can get BIG.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    I have a stupid question...............what kind of Wild Bulls................from cattle or what?
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Elk creekElk creek Senior Member Posts: 5,751 Senior Member
    I'm with Wambli on this. The 270 win has taken all kinds of elk here some get big, but they run away from what they think will hurt them. A wild bull, if anything like an old range bull, will run at what ever it thought might hurt it, and make it a bloody muddy spot on the ground. I'd go 375 too.
    Aim higher, or get a bigger gun.
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 7,731 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    If I have an option I will NOT go after something characterized as "dangerous" with a .270. You can "kill" dangerous with anything given enough time and room, but you need something that can STOP dangerous on it's tracks... Just my $.02 U.S.

    I do agree with your views and the others expressed on here about using the 'biggest and baddest' rifle I have............and that the 375 is eminently suited to the task.

    In all probability I will use it ( the 375) but I figure this opportunity gives me a chance to get the 270 'up and running' and if the situation presents itself ( for a headshot under safe conditions) then I will take it.....

    I already have the 375 set up and shooting well with factory 270gr loads so its ready to go. ( Here is a link to the range report)

    http://forums.gunsandammo.com/showthread.php?17965-Range-report-for-pre-64-mod-70-in-375-H-amp-H

    I also have some heavier factory loads ( I think they are 300grainers) and if I get a chance I will re-zero the 375 for those before I go...........but I kinda like the idea of perhaps proving that the 270 is better than just a good 'coyote' calibre for women and children...........:tooth:
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    So can you get out the A-1 and Heinz 57 steak sauce after you shoot one?
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 7,731 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    So can you get out the A-1 and Heinz 57 steak sauce after you shoot one?

    :roll2:

    I gather there are quite a few that need culling............I haven't got to planning the eating stage yet, I am still trying to figure out how to field dress one!!!
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • Big Al1Big Al1 Senior Member Posts: 7,052 Senior Member
    Monte Kennedy made some awesome looking rifles and he was a hell of a stock checker-er-er. His book was my checkering bible. But, IMHO, rifles, as pretty as they my be, are made to be used and shot. Although, my first choice would not be the .270, mainly because Snake would be impossible to live with, nothing beats a classic rifle in a classic caliber taking classic game animals!! That classic being the .375!!
  • Elk creekElk creek Senior Member Posts: 5,751 Senior Member
    A tractor helps.
    Aim higher, or get a bigger gun.
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    A wounded bull can still move DAMN QUICK. When I worked on a ranch one of my morning chores was feeding the sick pens. In one pen was a Charolais bull with a broken stifle joint.

    That BIG white bastard and I had a truce. He would go to the other side of the pen and I would not hit him with my whooping stick.

    The day we loaded him in the trailer for the big ride he was mean. I am still convinced that bull knew he was fixing to be hamburger. In the alley he spun around and smashed into the gate, half a second slower for me and I would have caught that gate in the face.

    When you use the .270 you keep shooting until the bull thinks he is dead.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    orchidman wrote: »
    My apologies to Elmer Keith........He did say Jack O'Connor...........My only excuse is that I cant remember the last day off I had, between working on the orchids during the week and the charter boat weekends my mind is playing tricks on me......I cant even remember what I had for dinner 2 days ago......which is why I am looking forward to dealing to some wild bulls.

    I will be taking the 375 as my 'preferred calibre', but I figured it would be an appropriate time to do something with the 270............and, if I can find a heavy load that shoots accurately , then I would like to blood it on the first animal ( preferably a head shot) and save the 375 for close in work........

    Apparently these bulls are 'loners' and they rarely group together so I am hoping that I get the opportunity to 'pick' one off with a head/top of the neck shot using the 270.

    ( I will also have the 222 Sako along for the ride........:tooth:)

    If you are going to pull the head shot check out the brain placement in a bull/cow. For the size of their head they have a very small brain. When we use a Cash Knocker we nail them about 3" above and between the eyes at an angle that follows down the general neck direction. That pretty much sends the bolt into the brain. From the side the triangle made by the eye, ear and horn would almost center the brain if you aim a little low. Also be careful about the angle of the skull in a frontal shoot because their skull is thick and could deflect the round if the angle is to much. I'd guess anything more than about 30° of perpendicular might be tough.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,419 Senior Member
    orchidman wrote: »
    I am still trying to figure out how to field dress one!!!

    Two short words or one long one- - - -depending on how you spell it- - - - -chainsaw!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 7,731 Senior Member
    NCFUBAR wrote: »
    If you are going to pull the head shot check out the brain placement in a bull/cow. For the size of their head they have a very small brain. When we use a Cash Knocker we nail them about 3" above and between the eyes at an angle that follows down the general neck direction. That pretty much sends the bolt into the brain. From the side the triangle made by the eye, ear and horn would almost center the brain if you aim a little low. Also be careful about the angle of the skull in a frontal shoot because their skull is thick and could deflect the round if the angle is to much. I'd guess anything more than about 30° of perpendicular might be tough.

    Good advice.
    The last few I have 'culled' have been frontal shots..............I draw imaginary lines between each eye and the opposite ear and where the 2 lines intersect is the brain. The last one I shot was with the .222 and it dropped on the spot dead.

    I have no doubt the 270 will be up to the task............even a shot from the side at the point where the neck/skull joint meets will do the job.........I wouldn't like to try a body shot with the 270 though, a heart/lung shot will most likely be fatal but its what happens between the shot and being dead that will possibly be 'interesting'.
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 7,731 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Besides, the first shot from a .270 will make you turn queer. And not funny ha ha queer either, but rogering dudes queer.

    Are you speaking from experience or are you one of those I put in the category of being 'an unmarried marriage guidance counsellor'...............:wink:
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,845 Senior Member
    Alec, I consider you a good friend, honestly I do, HOWEVER, I'll feel you'll deserve a kick in the "family jewels" for shooting an unfired pre-64 (even one in 270) anim_nutkick.gif

    On a serious note, I'd HATE for one of those bulls to turn you into a mud hole. Go big or stay home, and keep shooting until it stops moving. The '06 would be the absolute minimum I'd feel comfortable with, and the 375 would just give me all sorts of "warm fuzzies" when something that can hurt/kill me is in my sights.

    Use what you wish, just my NZ nickel's worth
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 4,543 Senior Member
    I don't know what your "wild bulls" are, but I've shot a couple 600 lb bison with my .270 stoked with 160 grain Partitions at 2850 fps. Granted, that's a handload, but I'm confident factory 150 grain Partitions would have performed the same.

    The first one went down on the first shot, which was a quartering lung shot, (the only "one shot drop" I saw that day, with the single exception of a spine shot with a 7Mag). It would have been content to lay there and die, but another herd member prompted it to get up and trot a couple feet, during which time I thumped it twice more. That was the end of that story.

    The second went down to a single high lung shot at 110 yards. I punched another into the base of the skull simply to speed things along. End of story.

    Regarding the first, I saw probably fifteen bison shot that day with everything from a .243 Win (brutal, to say the least. That girl simply couldn't shoot), to a .300 Win Mag. Nothing died immediately from the first shot, and like I said, my .270 and a 7Mag accounted for the only two shots I witnessed that day that dropped the critters on the first shot. As I recall, the .300 Win Mag bison absorbed more than its fair share of bullets.

    Pick the right bullet. IMO, a Partition or an A-Frame. Stick it in your .270 then go stick it in the right place on your critter. Freezer fodder.

    Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 7,731 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    Alec, I consider you a good friend, honestly I do, HOWEVER, I'll feel you'll deserve a kick in the "family jewels" for shooting an unfired pre-64 (even one in 270) anim_nutkick.gif

    In that case I guess you owe me two kicks already..............the 1939 30.06 and the 1950's 308 featherweight hadn't been fired when I got them.............and I have shot both of them.........even blooded the 30.06 on a deer...............:wink:

    On a serious note, I'd HATE for one of those bulls to turn you into a mud hole. Go big or stay home, and keep shooting until it stops moving. The '06 would be the absolute minimum I'd feel comfortable with, and the 375 would just give me all sorts of "warm fuzzies" when something that can hurt/kill me is in my sights.

    Use what you wish, just my NZ nickel's worth

    As I said earlier, the 375 is and will be my first choice.............however I am going to prepare the 270 and set it up to use ...........if the opportunity arises my friend.

    I might even take Bloodhound with me and give him the 375 to use to 'watch my back'......

    If I get time I will even set up a range 'rig' like this to get some practice with both rifles, esp the 375.................

    http://www.heymusa.com/heym_videos.htm Just click on one of the video's shown and you will see the range setup........
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 7,731 Senior Member
    Linefinder wrote: »
    I don't know what your "wild bulls" are, but I've shot a couple 600 lb bison with my .270 stoked with 160 grain Partitions at 2850 fps. Granted, that's a handload, but I'm confident factory 150 grain Partitions would have performed the same.

    The first one went down on the first shot, which was a quartering lung shot, (the only "one shot drop" I saw that day, with the single exception of a spine shot with a 7Mag). It would have been content to lay there and die, but another herd member prompted it to get up and trot a couple feet, during which time I thumped it twice more. That was the end of that story.

    The second went down to a single high lung shot at 110 yards. I punched another into the base of the skull simply to speed things along. End of story.

    Regarding the first, I saw probably fifteen bison shot that day with everything from a .243 Win (brutal, to say the least. That girl simply couldn't shoot), to a .300 Win Mag. Nothing died immediately from the first shot, and like I said, my .270 and a 7Mag accounted for the only two shots I witnessed that day that dropped the critters on the first shot. As I recall, the .300 Win Mag bison absorbed more than its fair share of bullets.

    Pick the right bullet. IMO, a Partition or an A-Frame. Stick it in your .270 then go stick it in the right place on your critter. Freezer fodder.

    Mike

    Thanks for that Mike. I remember something about this being posted up quite a while ago and couldn't find it.

    All joking aside ( about the 270) it does the job with correct bullet placement as you have described.
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,660 Senior Member
    Beautiful rifle.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
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