I agree. But my point was that any right or privilege is always balanced against the rights or privileges of others. Compare this right to bear arms with the right to free speech, and Holmes' comment about that right having limits. You've got the right to free speech in the Constitution, but if you go to, say, a movie theater and stand up and begin making a loud speech about how to make a nice stew, you'll soon be tossed. So that Constitutional right has it limits as well, just as the right to carry.
First of all, there's a BIG difference in a RIGHT and a Privilege. Driving is a privilege allowed by law. It is not necessarily protected by any underwritten statement in any constitution, whether Federal or State, so it is therefore a privilege that society has chosen to grant ourselves. If there were 11 bill of rights and one of them says, The Right of the People to drive an automobile on public thoroughfares shall not be infringed, then I might be preaching against excessive drivers license fees. But then again, I'm not sure it is or isn't a natural right. But that question is for another discussion.
Edited:
A right is something that needs no specific statute or law to defend its existence, other than stating it in the Constitution, and then, only to remind people that it IS a God given right. It is not of man. And for the Atheists and Agnostics among us, I'll call it a Natural right. It should need no defense. It is what it is. And like I just said, it is listed in our Constitution only to remind us that it is a right and shall not be infringed upon and to insure its legality. (But then, some people can't read.)
Only when your right comes up against another's right should any compromise of that right be allowed. In the case of yelling fire in a crowded theater, that is an out and out abuse of everybody elses rights. And it does nothing for you personally. If your idea of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness is scaring hell out of a bunch of people and causing death or injury brings you pleasure, then you should have NO rights. You are then a menace to society. That's when your first amendment rights come up against my rights. That should be the only limit to your rights. And in my personal opinion, the Constitution should explain it better, to say, that you have the right to think and say what you believe but when any right begins to cause other's harm, it should cease to be a right.
A government has the right to tax you for your privileges, but not to tax you for exercising your rights. And I fail to see how the fees required for receiving a CHL have anything to do with other people's rights. It's a right, so they shouldn't be allowed to charge you for it, or at least any more than to cover expenses.
In my mind a minimal amount of training should be required for anyone to qualify for a CHL. I don't want people who have never shot a gun to be able to walk into a gun shop and buy a 45 and start carrying it without at least basic safety training. Because, even though it is my right to Keep and Bear, it is not my right to do so dangerously to other people. There is a difference between fees charged and training required. I believe that we should pay a minimal fee to cover administrative costs and such that would otherwise be shared by taxpayers, some of whom don't carry because if there were no fee charged to cover these expenses people that don't choose to exercise that right would be unfairly charged for a right they don't use. But our state charges way more than necessary for covering the expenses for administrating this right. They are using it for Revenue, and there should be no revenue charged for a RIGHT.
Daddy, what's an enabler?
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
All the info you seek is online, including the application. Right here. http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/rsd/chl/index.htm You have to do fingerprints and the whole show, just like you never had a CHL before. Victoria's a pretty good sized town. I'll bet you can shop around and find a better deal. The Texas Gun Talk forum has a section on CHL. http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/texas-concealed-handgun-chl/ that you might find useful. You can ask there about Victoria area CHL classes. There are probably more than you think, especially if you're willing to drive a few miles north on 59. However, I think around $100 is fairly typical. The guy who taught my wife's second new application even had loaner guns and a private range for the test. Short brag: Like many women, my wife is a good shot...better than me if she practiced at all. She used a loaner 9mm 1911 for the test, and the first couple positions (the closest ones) she completely blew out the center of the target, so much so that afterward you couldn't see most of her shots at all, and others in the class jokingly accused her of missing the target completely. They kidded only a little, though, as a couple had to ask for her help in loading magazines.
There are surely many choices for a class near you, as even many ranges have people teaching CHL classes. Some surprising. A constable in Anahuac teaches a CHL class in the public library and uses the Chambers County LEO shooting range for the test. I did my last renewal there (yes, there are no more renewal classes...too bad, I kindof enjoy the refresher and update), and it was fascinating. People from as far as Beaumont and Liberty, and me from Houston. One guy with a Glock and 30 round magazine had not fired the gun since his first CHL test. Started waving it around and scared the bleep out of those of us who knew to be scared! He was right next to me for the test. After the first round, which I think is maybe 3 yards? Really close, anyway. My Glock 19 was a pretty easy shot, even for me at that range. The guy with the 30 round G17 was all over the target. He looked at my target and remarked, "Somebody's been practicing." I thought, "Somebody needs practice...far from me!" The Constable helped the guy out with some quick basic instruction. After a couple of stations, the Constable whispered to me, "You've already passed the test. You just have to use the rest of the ammo." Back then, since there were required renewal classes, an instructor wanted you to be happy and be a repeat customer. I wonder if they're so nice now.
When my daughter took the class, it was the first time she had fired a handgun. I assumed her husband had given her some instruction with his Ruger, but he had not. She passed the test. How hard can it be? I think it is really just to be sure you know how to load and fire the gun.
"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history." - Ayn Rand
All the info you seek is online, including the application. Right here. http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/rsd/chl/index.htm You have to do fingerprints and the whole show, just like you never had a CHL before. Victoria's a pretty good sized town. I'll bet you can shop around and find a better deal. The Texas Gun Talk forum has a section on CHL. http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/texas-concealed-handgun-chl/ that you might find useful. You can ask there about Victoria area CHL classes. There are probably more than you think, especially if you're willing to drive a few miles north on 59. However, I think around $100 is fairly typical. The guy who taught my wife's second new application even had loaner guns and a private range for the test. Short brag: Like many women, my wife is a good shot...better than me if she practiced at all. She used a loaner 9mm 1911 for the test, and the first couple positions (the closest ones) she completely blew out the center of the target, so much so that afterward you couldn't see most of her shots at all, and others in the class jokingly accused her of missing the target completely. They kidded only a little, though, as a couple had to ask for her help in loading magazines.
There are surely many choices for a class near you, as even many ranges have people teaching CHL classes. Some surprising. A constable in Anahuac teaches a CHL class in the public library and uses the Chambers County LEO shooting range for the test. I did my last renewal there (yes, there are no more renewal classes...too bad, I kindof enjoy the refresher and update), and it was fascinating. People from as far as Beaumont and Liberty, and me from Houston. One guy with a Glock and 30 round magazine had not fired the gun since his first CHL test. Started waving it around and scared the bleep out of those of us who knew to be scared! He was right next to me for the test. After the first round, which I think is maybe 3 yards? Really close, anyway. My Glock 19 was a pretty easy shot, even for me at that range. The guy with the 30 round G17 was all over the target. He looked at my target and remarked, "Somebody's been practicing." I thought, "Somebody needs practice...far from me!" The Constable helped the guy out with some quick basic instruction. After a couple of stations, the Constable whispered to me, "You've already passed the test. You just have to use the rest of the ammo." Back then, since there were required renewal classes, an instructor wanted you to be happy and be a repeat customer. I wonder if they're so nice now.
When my daughter took the class, it was the first time she had fired a handgun. I assumed her husband had given her some instruction with his Ruger, but he had not. She passed the test. How hard can it be? I think it is really just to be sure you know how to load and fire the gun.
Oh I know there are 4 or 5 places to take the course in Victoria and those are just the ones I know of. If I was going to take the class it wouldn't be the people I called yesterday. I called them because I had their number handy and just wanted to check out the law. What got me was him telling me it was going to cost $250 total to get my CHL. When I told him I was a senior he seemed like he didn't know that there was a discount for seniors. His class is $100 but the shooting part is what costs more I think. I think I can get the whole thing for under $200. How much they charge now for the fingerprints and background check?
My first time back in 2007 I aced the shooting too. It surprised me. I'm not that much of a hand gun shooter. I'm into Rifles mainly. I occasionally shoot shotgun on trap and skeet. But hand guns are NOT my main cup of tea. I was actually worried I wouldn't pass it, but I nailed it. I shot my Springfield Armory 1911. That thing has a surprisingly good trigger for a plain jane like it is. Anyway, I did it. I think I'm a little improved now since I've shot it a good bit more lately.
Daddy, what's an enabler?
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
Snake, as I recall, the fingerprinting is done by a third party service. It is a digital process rather than paper and ink. Here's a link: http://www.identogo.com/FP/texas.aspx Identogo used to be L-1 services. You do the online app first, then you can schedule the fingerprinting. According to DPS, the charge for that service is $10. I think you can also pay a modest additional fee to get a copy of the background check. Normally, the CHL class fee includes the shooting test but not the gun or the ammo, which you supply yourself. 50 rounds, I seem to recall. You should be able to get the whole thing done for $180 ($70+$10+$100) plus the cost of ammo you use for the test. Then...don't let it expire again. After four renewals, you are permitted for life.
Unrelated. At this exact moment, according to Apple "Find My iPhone", my wife just drove past Victoria on the way back from a bird photo outing at a ranch in south Texas. Small world.
"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history." - Ayn Rand
What I love about FL is that we don't have to take some big course for CCW. An NRA safety course, hunter safety course, or past military training with DD214 will suffice. Means that besides the licensing fees, your course costs around $25 or 4 years of honorable service.
Virginia is the same. Renewal, even for an expired permit, just requires the previous permit as proof of competence.
“A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”
What I love about Alabama is I fill out a form, wait for the backround check and pay 10 bucks/yr, up to 5 yrs. They even send you an email when it's time to renew.
"He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."
-- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
No question, Texas is one of the more expensive places to have a concealed license. Bottom line, though, is that at least this is a Shall Issue state, unlike those where the local police chief or county sheriff gets to say yea or nay based on his own preferences. People in New Jersey would gladly pay $250 or more just to be able to get to carry concealed. They have a waiting period just to buy a gun. We go down to the gun shop and we walk out with a new gun. Yes, Mr. Obama, it's just as easy as buying vegetables...or in your case, cigarettes.
"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history." - Ayn Rand
No question, Texas is one of the more expensive places to have a concealed license. Bottom line, though, is that at least this is a Shall Issue state, unlike those where the local police chief or county sheriff gets to say yea or nay based on his own preferences. People in New Jersey would gladly pay $250 or more just to be able to get to carry concealed. They have a waiting period just to buy a gun. We go down to the gun shop and we walk out with a new gun. Yes, Mr. Obama, it's just as easy as buying vegetables...or in your case, cigarettes.
True. What we Texans lose in paying a fairly high CHL permit fee is gained by our living in a state that is very gun friendly. By that I don't mean carry laws (which are about average and soon to have open carry) but that the cops and county attorneys are very supportive of citizens who use their firearms for self defense in a responsible manner. Nearly every shooting in that category is nobilled.
Incidentally, the Tx CHL law mandates that the cost of the permit only cover admin costs and not for general revenue as was stated above. If you figure the admin paperwork and staff needed to perform a background check, legal vetting, permit creating and mailing, and keeping all the requisite info, the cost is about what you'd guess would be needed. I really don't think that much of the fee, if any, goes to general revenue.
Snake, as I recall, the fingerprinting is done by a third party service. It is a digital process rather than paper and ink. Here's a link: http://www.identogo.com/FP/texas.aspx Identogo used to be L-1 services. You do the online app first, then you can schedule the fingerprinting. According to DPS, the charge for that service is $10. I think you can also pay a modest additional fee to get a copy of the background check. Normally, the CHL class fee includes the shooting test but not the gun or the ammo, which you supply yourself. 50 rounds, I seem to recall. You should be able to get the whole thing done for $180 ($70+$10+$100) plus the cost of ammo you use for the test. Then...don't let it expire again. After four renewals, you are permitted for life.
Unrelated. At this exact moment, according to Apple "Find My iPhone", my wife just drove past Victoria on the way back from a bird photo outing at a ranch in south Texas. Small world.
Lots of Spring and Winter bird nuts come down to southern Texas. And then, like your wife, we have some of our own, such as my mother was. Back in the 80s and 90s she and my dad would make their annual trek down to Mission and the bird sanctuary there. They always talked about the Chackalas. I finally went with them and it was VERY Interesting. And the wild hogs and Javalinas would stroll right through your camp. And Chackalas weren't the only birds. I'm no bird watcher except down the barrel of a shot gun, but I did love that place and all the strange birds I saw, and I'm not referring to the SNOW BIRDS, :rotflmao:
BTW if your wife went on 59 loop going to Houston around Victoria, she went right over Hiway 87 overpass. From there to my front door is right at about 26 miles south.
Daddy, what's an enabler?
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
True. What we Texans lose in paying a fairly high CHL permit fee is gained by our living in a state that is very gun friendly. By that I don't mean carry laws (which are about average and soon to have open carry) but that the cops and county attorneys are very supportive of citizens who use their firearms for self defense in a responsible manner. Nearly every shooting in that category is nobilled.
Incidentally, the Tx CHL law mandates that the cost of the permit only cover admin costs and not for general revenue as was stated above. If you figure the admin paperwork and staff needed to perform a background check, legal vetting, permit creating and mailing, and keeping all the requisite info, the cost is about what you'd guess would be needed. I really don't think that much of the fee, if any, goes to general revenue.
If that's true, then why in this gun friendly state is it more expensive for the permit than in some less gun friendly states?
Daddy, what's an enabler?
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
No question, Texas is one of the more expensive places to have a concealed license. Bottom line, though, is that at least this is a Shall Issue state, unlike those where the local police chief or county sheriff gets to say yea or nay based on his own preferences. People in New Jersey would gladly pay $250 or more just to be able to get to carry concealed. They have a waiting period just to buy a gun. We go down to the gun shop and we walk out with a new gun. Yes, Mr. Obama, it's just as easy as buying vegetables...or in your case, cigarettes.
Yes, but New Jersey is NOT gun friendly. We are.
Daddy, what's an enabler?
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
What I love about FL is that we don't have to take some big course for CCW. An NRA safety course, hunter safety course, or past military training with DD214 will suffice. Means that besides the licensing fees, your course costs around $25 or 4 years of honorable service.
That's what I'm talkin' about. I've been to a CHL class, and I didn't learn a damn thing I didn't teach when I was a Texas Hunter Education Instructor. This is money talking and people that teach these classes make out big time doing it. If it were really necessary and they had a unique curriculum I could see it, but I think we more thoroughly covered most everything in NRA Safety Courses and Texas Hunter Education courses than was covered in a CHL class. And, it's a whole lot cheaper.
Daddy, what's an enabler?
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
If that's true, then why in this gun friendly state is it more expensive for the permit than in some less gun friendly states?
Because the permits issued by other states likely don't have all the checks and documentation that Tx does. I really don't know this for certain of course but I do know that the CHL law mandates that the fees cover costs and no more. Whether the state has fudged on this I also can't say, but just a rough estimate of how much it costs in time and staff for a background check -- including federal and state, and also county for stuff like back child support and such, bench warrants, protective orders, etc, isn't a split second thing. And the lamination and record keeping, having the fingerprints on file, backing up with renewal mailings, plus the original cost of sending out the licenses? I'd figure that the fee is about what it takes in admin cost. Other states may cover some of the fees by general revenue but as you know, Texas is pretty focused on various licenses and permits cost being self-sufficient for that specific purpose. The CHL fees are just in like with other state permit costs. They believe in a pay as you go which is of course why Tx has a budget surplus with zero state income taxes. In other states the cost of the license is likely partly covered by income tax intake. Just a guess on my part.
Regardless, it is what it is. Get a CHL or don't. I got mine the first wave and essentially it legalized what I'd been already doing, but hey. I'm not about to move to another state.
Because the permits issued by other states likely don't have all the checks and documentation that Tx does. I really don't know this for certain of course but I do know that the CHL law mandates that the fees cover costs and no more. Whether the state has fudged on this I also can't say, but just a rough estimate of how much it costs in time and staff for a background check -- including federal and state, and also county for stuff like back child support and such, bench warrants, protective orders, etc, isn't a split second thing. And the lamination and record keeping, having the fingerprints on file, backing up with renewal mailings, plus the original cost of sending out the licenses? I'd figure that the fee is about what it takes in admin cost. Other states may cover some of the fees by general revenue but as you know, Texas is pretty focused on various licenses and permits cost being self-sufficient for that specific purpose. The CHL fees are just in like with other state permit costs. They believe in a pay as you go which is of course why Tx has a budget surplus with zero state income taxes. In other states the cost of the license is likely partly covered by income tax intake. Just a guess on my part.
Regardless, it is what it is. Get a CHL or don't. I got mine the first wave and essentially it legalized what I'd been already doing, but hey. I'm not about to move to another state.
I'm not going anywhere Sam. I just have a strong distrust for bureaucrats of any party when it comes to money. I'm playing devil's advocate too. The finger prints are a separate fee. You pay that to the outfit that is contracted to do it for the State I believe.
Daddy, what's an enabler?
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
When I did my license they took prints right there at the gun range and they were included in the total fee. I paid about 100 bucks plus the license fee which included the class and range test.
Incidentally my gun pals took it as personal insult if they scored less that 100% on both the multiple choice test and the shooting test. I aced both with a perfect score and therefore got a couple of free beers from my buddies.
Last I checked it was one year. You're out of luck. It's a new application. I know, because it happened to my wife. Seniors get a discount, but you're still a new app. And those looking at open carry as an alternative, the bill I saw allowed open carry for CHL holders only, so you still need the license.
I understand about the open carry thing. I agree with that. But I was only wondering about how long an expired CHL would be good for cheap renewal. Looks like I'm back to square one, except for getting a seniors discount.
But looking at the renewal fee for a senior and no need for another class, I'll get another CHL because looks like I can renew for $35 at a whack and then After 5 renewals I've got a life time membership. Can't beat that with a stick. Of course I'll be 90 years old by that time.
Daddy, what's an enabler?
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
Replies
First of all, there's a BIG difference in a RIGHT and a Privilege. Driving is a privilege allowed by law. It is not necessarily protected by any underwritten statement in any constitution, whether Federal or State, so it is therefore a privilege that society has chosen to grant ourselves. If there were 11 bill of rights and one of them says, The Right of the People to drive an automobile on public thoroughfares shall not be infringed, then I might be preaching against excessive drivers license fees. But then again, I'm not sure it is or isn't a natural right. But that question is for another discussion.
Edited:
A right is something that needs no specific statute or law to defend its existence, other than stating it in the Constitution, and then, only to remind people that it IS a God given right. It is not of man. And for the Atheists and Agnostics among us, I'll call it a Natural right. It should need no defense. It is what it is. And like I just said, it is listed in our Constitution only to remind us that it is a right and shall not be infringed upon and to insure its legality. (But then, some people can't read.)
Only when your right comes up against another's right should any compromise of that right be allowed. In the case of yelling fire in a crowded theater, that is an out and out abuse of everybody elses rights. And it does nothing for you personally. If your idea of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness is scaring hell out of a bunch of people and causing death or injury brings you pleasure, then you should have NO rights. You are then a menace to society. That's when your first amendment rights come up against my rights. That should be the only limit to your rights. And in my personal opinion, the Constitution should explain it better, to say, that you have the right to think and say what you believe but when any right begins to cause other's harm, it should cease to be a right.
A government has the right to tax you for your privileges, but not to tax you for exercising your rights. And I fail to see how the fees required for receiving a CHL have anything to do with other people's rights. It's a right, so they shouldn't be allowed to charge you for it, or at least any more than to cover expenses.
In my mind a minimal amount of training should be required for anyone to qualify for a CHL. I don't want people who have never shot a gun to be able to walk into a gun shop and buy a 45 and start carrying it without at least basic safety training. Because, even though it is my right to Keep and Bear, it is not my right to do so dangerously to other people. There is a difference between fees charged and training required. I believe that we should pay a minimal fee to cover administrative costs and such that would otherwise be shared by taxpayers, some of whom don't carry because if there were no fee charged to cover these expenses people that don't choose to exercise that right would be unfairly charged for a right they don't use. But our state charges way more than necessary for covering the expenses for administrating this right. They are using it for Revenue, and there should be no revenue charged for a RIGHT.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
There are surely many choices for a class near you, as even many ranges have people teaching CHL classes. Some surprising. A constable in Anahuac teaches a CHL class in the public library and uses the Chambers County LEO shooting range for the test. I did my last renewal there (yes, there are no more renewal classes...too bad, I kindof enjoy the refresher and update), and it was fascinating. People from as far as Beaumont and Liberty, and me from Houston. One guy with a Glock and 30 round magazine had not fired the gun since his first CHL test. Started waving it around and scared the bleep out of those of us who knew to be scared! He was right next to me for the test. After the first round, which I think is maybe 3 yards? Really close, anyway. My Glock 19 was a pretty easy shot, even for me at that range. The guy with the 30 round G17 was all over the target. He looked at my target and remarked, "Somebody's been practicing." I thought, "Somebody needs practice...far from me!" The Constable helped the guy out with some quick basic instruction. After a couple of stations, the Constable whispered to me, "You've already passed the test. You just have to use the rest of the ammo." Back then, since there were required renewal classes, an instructor wanted you to be happy and be a repeat customer. I wonder if they're so nice now.
When my daughter took the class, it was the first time she had fired a handgun. I assumed her husband had given her some instruction with his Ruger, but he had not. She passed the test. How hard can it be? I think it is really just to be sure you know how to load and fire the gun.
Oh I know there are 4 or 5 places to take the course in Victoria and those are just the ones I know of. If I was going to take the class it wouldn't be the people I called yesterday. I called them because I had their number handy and just wanted to check out the law. What got me was him telling me it was going to cost $250 total to get my CHL. When I told him I was a senior he seemed like he didn't know that there was a discount for seniors. His class is $100 but the shooting part is what costs more I think. I think I can get the whole thing for under $200. How much they charge now for the fingerprints and background check?
My first time back in 2007 I aced the shooting too. It surprised me. I'm not that much of a hand gun shooter. I'm into Rifles mainly. I occasionally shoot shotgun on trap and skeet. But hand guns are NOT my main cup of tea. I was actually worried I wouldn't pass it, but I nailed it. I shot my Springfield Armory 1911. That thing has a surprisingly good trigger for a plain jane like it is. Anyway, I did it. I think I'm a little improved now since I've shot it a good bit more lately.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
Unrelated. At this exact moment, according to Apple "Find My iPhone", my wife just drove past Victoria on the way back from a bird photo outing at a ranch in south Texas. Small world.
NRA Endowment Member
-- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
True, next county from me over it's 5
-- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
True. What we Texans lose in paying a fairly high CHL permit fee is gained by our living in a state that is very gun friendly. By that I don't mean carry laws (which are about average and soon to have open carry) but that the cops and county attorneys are very supportive of citizens who use their firearms for self defense in a responsible manner. Nearly every shooting in that category is nobilled.
Incidentally, the Tx CHL law mandates that the cost of the permit only cover admin costs and not for general revenue as was stated above. If you figure the admin paperwork and staff needed to perform a background check, legal vetting, permit creating and mailing, and keeping all the requisite info, the cost is about what you'd guess would be needed. I really don't think that much of the fee, if any, goes to general revenue.
Lots of Spring and Winter bird nuts come down to southern Texas. And then, like your wife, we have some of our own, such as my mother was. Back in the 80s and 90s she and my dad would make their annual trek down to Mission and the bird sanctuary there. They always talked about the Chackalas. I finally went with them and it was VERY Interesting. And the wild hogs and Javalinas would stroll right through your camp. And Chackalas weren't the only birds. I'm no bird watcher except down the barrel of a shot gun, but I did love that place and all the strange birds I saw, and I'm not referring to the SNOW BIRDS, :rotflmao:
BTW if your wife went on 59 loop going to Houston around Victoria, she went right over Hiway 87 overpass. From there to my front door is right at about 26 miles south.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
If that's true, then why in this gun friendly state is it more expensive for the permit than in some less gun friendly states?
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
Yes, but New Jersey is NOT gun friendly. We are.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
That's what I'm talkin' about. I've been to a CHL class, and I didn't learn a damn thing I didn't teach when I was a Texas Hunter Education Instructor. This is money talking and people that teach these classes make out big time doing it. If it were really necessary and they had a unique curriculum I could see it, but I think we more thoroughly covered most everything in NRA Safety Courses and Texas Hunter Education courses than was covered in a CHL class. And, it's a whole lot cheaper.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
Because the permits issued by other states likely don't have all the checks and documentation that Tx does. I really don't know this for certain of course but I do know that the CHL law mandates that the fees cover costs and no more. Whether the state has fudged on this I also can't say, but just a rough estimate of how much it costs in time and staff for a background check -- including federal and state, and also county for stuff like back child support and such, bench warrants, protective orders, etc, isn't a split second thing. And the lamination and record keeping, having the fingerprints on file, backing up with renewal mailings, plus the original cost of sending out the licenses? I'd figure that the fee is about what it takes in admin cost. Other states may cover some of the fees by general revenue but as you know, Texas is pretty focused on various licenses and permits cost being self-sufficient for that specific purpose. The CHL fees are just in like with other state permit costs. They believe in a pay as you go which is of course why Tx has a budget surplus with zero state income taxes. In other states the cost of the license is likely partly covered by income tax intake. Just a guess on my part.
Regardless, it is what it is. Get a CHL or don't. I got mine the first wave and essentially it legalized what I'd been already doing, but hey. I'm not about to move to another state.
I'm not going anywhere Sam. I just have a strong distrust for bureaucrats of any party when it comes to money. I'm playing devil's advocate too. The finger prints are a separate fee. You pay that to the outfit that is contracted to do it for the State I believe.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
Incidentally my gun pals took it as personal insult if they scored less that 100% on both the multiple choice test and the shooting test. I aced both with a perfect score and therefore got a couple of free beers from my buddies.
I understand about the open carry thing. I agree with that. But I was only wondering about how long an expired CHL would be good for cheap renewal. Looks like I'm back to square one, except for getting a seniors discount.
But looking at the renewal fee for a senior and no need for another class, I'll get another CHL because looks like I can renew for $35 at a whack and then After 5 renewals I've got a life time membership. Can't beat that with a stick. Of course I'll be 90 years old by that time.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.