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Any thoughts on that fruitcake who crashed that plane in the Alps?

Big ChiefBig Chief Senior MemberPosts: 32,995 Senior Member
I think they need a major overhaul of their medical system for pilots where his employers know they have a pilot with mental problems that the docs said shouldn't be flying or notified of any issues immediately.

Armchair quarterbacking is easy, but they will have to make some changes with cockpit rules and physical/mental status of their pilots.

Sad story any way you look at it and it really sucked for the unfortunate passengers who had no idy this nut job was a copilot on their flight.

My :angel2::angel2: go out to the families.

BTW: There was some talk about requirements/hiring practices for cut-rate airlines as compared to the major ones. germanair is a subsidiary of Lufthansa, but they were saying some of the germanair pilots are called in from a temporary placement job agency?
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
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Replies

  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    More coming out every day.................

    Germanwings co-pilot's torn sick note, recent treatment at hospital provide clues in crash probe

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/03/27/investigators-raid-germanwings-co-pilot-homes-as-questions-surround-mental/
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    I'll believe almost any analysis they wish to offer...after any religious angle is dismissed. Was he a recent convert to the religion of peace?
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Well, mass murder by pilot has been done occasionally in the past, about a half dozen times, likely including the Asian flight that disappeared.

    Essential problem is that mental disorders are often fairly easy to conceal and if one person goes nuts, there's not a lot that can be done in many cases. Here, it's a terrible tragedy that this nutcase decided to go out in a blaze of glory. Sad and it's a terrible burden on the families.

    What will likely occur is a good thing: the European flight rules matching the US, that 2 of the crew must be in the cockpit at all times. Makes sense and I'm glad we have it here.

    I'm guessing that Lufthansa will end up paying millions in damages to the families, as it should.
  • GunnerK19GunnerK19 Senior Member Posts: 1,088 Senior Member
    I don't believe the online reports of "He converted to Islam", most if not all of them were written by bloggers. Hardly credible news sources. Besides, if it were true, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Megyn Kelly, and Sean Hannity would be shouting it from the rooftops.

    I'll wait for the press release from the Office of Civil Aviation of Germany and the Bundespolizei before I entertain any ideas he Allahfied hisself and 149 other people.
    I'm a Conservative. How conservative? Only Alex P. Keaton has me beat.

    Taurus 605 .357, Ruger .45 Vaquero, Colt frontier commemorative .22 SA, Pietta 1860 .44 snubnose
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,288 Senior Member
    Only reports I believe is that he'd showed signs of depression for the last year and had become somewhat withdrawn in that time from friends and family. Anyone can get depressed, and he must have had a real bout of it to crash the plane, if that is what his problem turned out to be in this case. Not likely they'll ever know for sure.

    I guess they'll start enforcing the two persons in the cockpit rule over there now like they do over here, and flights coming into the U.S. And that isn't exactly foolproof insurance.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • ilove22silove22s Senior Member Posts: 1,354 Senior Member
    JMO and how i see things.

    the world isnt a static place and people aren't either. They can change for whatever reason.

    So, just because someone is okay one minute or one day doesnt mean he cant go crazy the next.
    The ears never lie.

    - Don Burt
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,634 Senior Member
    You see that shrink on TV with the mop on his head and the walrus moustache talking about this case
    no wonder pilots try to avoid shrinks.

    Don't shrinks people are alright if they fly in planes for a living----it is everyone else
    honk honk.
    Shut up-----KAREN; OK Cynthia
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,288 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    You see that shrink on TV with the mop on his head and the walrus moustache talking about this case
    no wonder pilots try to avoid shrinks.

    Don't shrinks people are alright if they fly in planes for a living----it is everyone else
    honk honk.

    All psychiatrists are a little nutz; they take psychiatry to find out what's wrong with THEM! :tooth:

    I had to take an annual psych eval in nuclear power. I think most of the evaluators went off the rails after talking to most of us Assistant Unit Operators. Most of us grew up in the country, most of us served in some branch of the military, and all of us were unrepentant practical jokers. It was psychological warfare and they came in unarmed! :tooth: :roll2:
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    Google antidepressant drugs and murder,you get the answer. I'm unable to upload it for some reason
    The connection to mass murder and Prozac type drugs is alarming
    (SSRI drug link)
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    GunnerK19 wrote: »
    I don't believe the online reports of "He converted to Islam", most if not all of them were written by bloggers. Hardly credible news sources. Besides, if it were true, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Megyn Kelly, and Sean Hannity would be shouting it from the rooftops.

    I'll wait for the press release from the Office of Civil Aviation of Germany and the Bundespolizei before I entertain any ideas he Allahfied hisself and 149 other people.

    Agree. No way it's a religious thing. He was just unbalanced, a private issue totally.

    Recent news shows today (Saturday 28th) that TWO doctors had ruled him w. depression and would likely have gotten him suspended from his job. And some obscure posts he made on social media or somewhere else indicate that he had a "blaze of glory" idea for his "departure" -- sadly it was made real and he murdered 150 people as a result.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,634 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    All psychiatrists are a little nutz; they take psychiatry to find out what's wrong with THEM! :tooth:

    I had to take an annual psych eval in nuclear power. I think most of the evaluators went off the rails after talking to most of us Assistant Unit Operators. Most of us grew up in the country, most of us served in some branch of the military, and all of us were unrepentant practical jokers. It was psychological warfare and they came in unarmed! :tooth: :roll2:
    I had to go to a Special Board of Flight Surgeons for sinus issues
    one of them was a shrink. I got branded a hostile patient when I asked what my relationship
    with my father had to do with my sinuses. I think that made points with the other Doctors, since I was cleared for flying duty.
    Shut up-----KAREN; OK Cynthia
  • U TU T Member Posts: 423 Member
    no real good thoughts the suicidal murderer, but do have some thoughts on the reaction from people/media.

    There doesn't seem to be the same type of outrage and condemnation regarding him as evil and despicable, like there would be for someone that uses a gun for the same purpose!

    Poor guy had some depression, and successfully murdered more people I think, than all the recent school and movie theater shootings combined shootings combined?
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,788 Senior Member
    Airline crashes are always shocking, for the mass casualties involved. I just doubt that all the new rules and procedures that will come out of all this will do much to improve safety. Statistically, the success rate of airline flights are pretty amazing, but when they do have a failure, it is magnified exponentially by press coverage and political pandering. The facts indicate that traveling by air is still safer than most other ways, and that 100% success is never going to be achieved. Stuff happens, and while terrorism and associated anomalies related to mental health can spike the numbers, occasionally, there will still be screw-ups that cannot be predicted in advance, despite all efforts to prevent them.
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 4,931 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    What will likely occur is a good thing: the European flight rules matching the US, that 2 of the crew must be in the cockpit at all times. Makes sense and I'm glad we have it here..

    Sam, this was true hen there were 3 pilots in the cockpit, today there are only 2 in the cockpit, they did away with the Flight Engineer .

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    jaywapti wrote: »
    Sam, this was true hen there were 3 pilots in the cockpit, today there are only 2 in the cockpit, they did away with the Flight Engineer .

    JAY

    Yeah, I know. Point being, leaving any one pilot/copilot alone behind a secure door is not sensible practice, in case of sudden seizure or other unexpected occurrence, not just the nutball factor.
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 12,417 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    More coming out every day.................

    Germanwings co-pilot's torn sick note, recent treatment at hospital provide clues in crash probe

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/03/27/investigators-raid-germanwings-co-pilot-homes-as-questions-surround-mental/

    The wife put on her tin foil hat for a moment when this was reported, seems like a red herring to her, I would like a closer look at the folks on the plane, maybe only one person was wanted dead, the rest were in the wrong place.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • LMLarsenLMLarsen Senior Member Posts: 8,337 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Yeah, I know. Point being, leaving any one pilot/copilot alone behind a secure door is not sensible practice, in case of sudden seizure or other unexpected occurrence, not just the nutball factor.

    What happens when one has to take care of nature's call?
    “A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”

    NRA Endowment Member
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,259 Senior Member
    LMLarsen wrote: »
    What happens when one has to take care of nature's call?

    Window?


    Bit close to home this, Wife occasionally flies them.

    Late last year was the last time.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 20,850 Senior Member
    LMLarsen wrote: »
    What happens when one has to take care of nature's call?
    LM, what I'm hearing on the news is even a flight attendant stepping into the cockpit while pilot or co-p steps out to relieve themselves, grab a snack, whatever, fulfills the "two in the cockpit at all times" requirement. As long as it's a "crew-member" :uhm:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • LMLarsenLMLarsen Senior Member Posts: 8,337 Senior Member
    Well, as long as the FA can handle a psychotic pilot, I guess that works.
    “A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”

    NRA Endowment Member
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,259 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    LM, what I'm hearing on the news is even a flight attendant stepping into the cockpit while pilot or co-p steps out to relieve themselves, grab a snack, whatever, fulfills the "two in the cockpit at all times" requirement. As long as it's a "crew-member" :uhm:

    Not most european airlines, till now.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,624 Senior Member
    I don't know what to make of it. I suspect the base motive was not depression, it probably was something else. The investigators have been hinting at it, but so far we don't know. When I first heard it was intentional, I initially didn't believe it. I thought how could this be done?

    A whole lot of people are depressed who do not kill anyone, or even want to harm others. No religious connection that we know of and I don't suspect any. The co-pilot made no statements in support of anything.

    Don't think we who are more or less "rational" can ever come up with with a reason that justifies irrational behavior. It's something likely we'll never understand. This has been true for lots of unreasonable and destructive acts: Columbine, and so on. Nothing will ever justify any of these acts (and others) and I doubt we'll ever understand them. They exist in their own perverted worlds, population of one or two.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    We now hear that his girlfriend dumped him the day before the flight and that he then told her his name would be known to everyone soon, or something to that effect.

    Of course the guy was unbalanced and obviously had been for some time. You don't just decide on the spur of the moment to crash your plane and kill all the passengers just because your gal leave you, unless you're already nuts.

    As to how to prevent such? I suppose mandatory psych evaluations similar to exams given to those in ultra high security jobs? I dunno. Maybe.
  • GunnerK19GunnerK19 Senior Member Posts: 1,088 Senior Member
    I read this morning that he was planning on getting married next year, but his girlfriend/fiancee of seven years dumped him the day before the fatal flight. That may have been the straw that broke the camel's back. Who knows.

    Damn, Sam beat me to it by this much...
    I'm a Conservative. How conservative? Only Alex P. Keaton has me beat.

    Taurus 605 .357, Ruger .45 Vaquero, Colt frontier commemorative .22 SA, Pietta 1860 .44 snubnose
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,288 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »

    As to how to prevent such? I suppose mandatory psych evaluations similar to exams given to those in ultra high security jobs? I dunno. Maybe.

    "No Lone Zone" works/worked well in the military for certain jobs/areas. My job as missile house sentry wasn't only to make sure the two man rule was observed and unauthorized people were kept out. It also entailed taking out anyone authorized to be in there that went nutz by whatever level of force was required.

    Might be time to have air marshals, or equivalent on all flights. But they could go nuts, too. There's no fail safe answer to the problem.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    GunnerK19 wrote: »
    Damn, Sam beat me to it by this much...

    I meant to do it.
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 4,931 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Yeah, I know. Point being, leaving any one pilot/copilot alone behind a secure door is not sensible practice, in case of sudden seizure or other unexpected occurrence, not just the nutball factor.

    Sam, I'm gonna give you a very brief education of cockpit SOP as of 2001 when I retired, before a crew member is about to leave he/she makes sure all others of the crew dons there O2 mask, when he leaves the door is locked behind him, all crew members have a key or access code to reopen the door, myself, knowing whats in the cockpit, I cant think of anything that could be used to block the door to keep it from opening. There are flight manuals, and briefcases but not enough to keep the door blocked unless he snuck something onboard.

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 4,931 Senior Member
    LMLarsen wrote: »
    What happens when one has to take care of nature's call?

    See above.

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Yeah, I know. Point being, leaving any one pilot/copilot alone behind a secure door is not sensible practice, in case of sudden seizure or other unexpected occurrence, not just the nutball factor.
    Some good thoughts here, but one thing I picked up on was that if this guy just had a siesure or something, it was covered, because there was an override system where you could key in a code from the outside and the door will open, UnLESS whoever is inside overrides that. The copilot overrode the attempts to open the door from the outside. It's pretty clear that he wanted to crash the plane.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    GunnerK19 wrote: »
    I don't believe the online reports of "He converted to Islam", most if not all of them were written by bloggers. Hardly credible news sources. Besides, if it were true, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Megyn Kelly, and Sean Hannity would be shouting it from the rooftops.

    I'll wait for the press release from the Office of Civil Aviation of Germany and the Bundespolizei before I entertain any ideas he Allahfied hisself and 149 other people.

    Yeah, I didn't see any reports about Islam or any other religious ideology. All I've heard is he was very depressed.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
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