The OC'ers nightmare a reality.

JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior MemberPosts: 6,139 Senior Member
I am to-my-death a supporter for 2A protection of rights and the 2A itself. I am a staunch supporter of the right to carry a firearm in public for your protection, but I am equally as outspoken about keeping that firearm hidden from prying eyes.

Here's why:

http://bearingarms.com/felon-attacks-open-carrier-weapon-washington-walmart/

This is not the only instance this has occurred and it won't be the last.

Walmart IS NOT the place for open carry. Period. It's too crowded, ambush points are endless and you cannot possibly keep everyone on your radar at one time. You are distracted while shopping, reaching for merchandise, talking to employees--or your family--and the environment is rich with innocents in close proximity to you. There is no clear backdrop.

Stop this OC nonsense. If you don't agree with me, fine. And if you must OC, train ridiculously often and get at LEAST a level 1 retention holster like a Safariland SLS.
“There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers

Replies

  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    OK, I'll play the :devil: advocate. LEOs walk around all the time doing open carry, yes?
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,987 Senior Member
    OC has it's place; it just isn't everyplace
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,139 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    OK, I'll play the :devil: advocate. LEOs walk around all the time doing open carry, yes?

    We do, yes. I eluded to it in another thread about the fundamental different between civvie OC and officer OC that I'll expand on here:

    My duty holster is a Level 3 retention holster. It literally means there are 3 mechanisms in place to secure the gun in the holster AND there is a hood over the thumb break mechanism making access to the thumb latch difficult from any position except top-down.

    Secondly, an officers presence is a deterrent to interactions with the criminal element. A majority of felons will not engage me to get my weapon because...

    1. I am not the only cop; there are more of me and they will come.

    2. I have had (or am at least perceived to have had) training in weapon retention and defeating an attack.

    3. I will shoot you. Plainly put. And criminals know this. If you grab my gun and I get the moment to do it, I will shoot you.

    4. I've been programmed to observe everyone. When I'm in a Walmart with a gun in plain view, I am in work mode. I'm not worrying about a shopping list or screaming kids or shoppers in my way.

    Criminals may attack cops, yes. It happens. But RARELY do scum attack cops in effort TO arm themselves. They attack cops when ALREADY armed to do so.

    A well trained citizen who does OC in areas/places they are not distracted constantly can be a very effective possessor of a weapon. Otherwise you are a liability to innocent bystanders.

    Keep it hidden.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • TrueTone911TrueTone911 Senior Member Posts: 6,081 Senior Member
    The thing is, the way my simple mind sees it anyway, is that people expect to see officers carrying a gun. The non-gun owning public see it like...If you have a gun, and you are not in uniform, you are a danger to them. See a cop won't randomly shoot them. But Joe Blow...who knows what that guy will do.

    I'm sure there was a day when civilians carrying guns was common place. But so were dirt streets, horse troughs and saloons. And if society never parted those ways, open carry would be as widely acceptable now. But that aint the way it is.

    I won't go so far as to say that open carry should not be legal or allowed. I will say that I would not do it. If I ever do find myself in a position where I can legally carry, I want to be the only one who knows. Well...except you guys that is. If I ever find myself carrying and in a situation where I feel I need to use my firearm...I want that to be a surprise to whoever is the focus of my attention. I don't want to advertise that component of my defense plan in advance.

    If I am able to carry some day, maybe I will feel differently. But this is the way I see it today.
    Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace.  ~ James Madison
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,139 Senior Member
    I don't think OC should be "legal or allowed", either. It's intrinsic to the US Constitution and shall not be infringed.

    But OC in public, as a personal decision, should be HEAVILY considered before doing it.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,503 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    I don't think OC should be "legal or allowed", either. It's intrinsic to the US Constitution and shall not be infringed.

    But OC in public, as a personal decision, should be HEAVILY considered before doing it.



    I can agree with that.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • TrueTone911TrueTone911 Senior Member Posts: 6,081 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    I don't think OC should be "legal or allowed", either. It's intrinsic to the US Constitution and shall not be infringed.

    But OC in public, as a personal decision, should be HEAVILY considered before doing it.

    Yeah that was a typo, I actually meant illegal.
    Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace.  ~ James Madison
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    I would like to see about 1000,000 citizens march on DC doing OC (safely) in support of our RKBA.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,139 Senior Member
    Yeah that was a typo, I actually meant illegal.

    Your wording was appropriate, too. It's not for the laws of man to decide.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • TrueTone911TrueTone911 Senior Member Posts: 6,081 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    Your wording was appropriate, too. It's not for the laws of man to decide.

    Happy accident.
    Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace.  ~ James Madison
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Folks, this tendency to pick stories to illustrate how bad an idea OC is follows the same pattern as the antis picking up the stories of shootings to prove guns are bad. For every incident like this there are thousands of folks that OCd for the whole day and NOTHING happened. These incidents are statistically insignificant but follow the same sensationalist path as the antis use.
    :that:
    I choose not to OC for security reasons, but so what if someone does. I would also point out the OC gentleman came out on top.
    It's because I hate Trump.
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,952 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Folks, this tendency to pick stories to illustrate how bad an idea OC is follows the same pattern as the antis picking up the stories of shootings to prove guns are bad. For every incident like this there are thousands of folks that OCd for the whole day and NOTHING happened. These incidents are statistically insignificant but follow the same sensationalist path as the antis use.

    AGREED. It's not my choice, but it should be a constitutional right to do so if you choose to. Watch out that we don't nit-pick each other to death while the anti's sit and cheer us on.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,139 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Folks, this tendency to pick stories to illustrate how bad an idea OC is follows the same pattern as the antis picking up the stories of shootings to prove guns are bad. For every incident like this there are thousands of folks that OCd for the whole day and NOTHING happened. These incidents are statistically insignificant but follow the same sensationalist path as the antis use.

    With one massive exception. I'm using this incident to urge folks to decide for themselves from a varied viewpoint, not to provoke legal action.

    Not every act of exceeding the speed limit causes an accident, but it's a primary factor in the accidents that do happen. So one should make the conscious decision to drive safely. Same thing with carrying a gun. Conscious decisions to be as safe as possible in a given environment.

    Moreover, although I did state, in general, I am not an advocate for OC out in public, I am not making the case for legislating how one carries; THAT would be analogous to an anti's way of thinking.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    Wambli,
    Yes NC is an OC state. However, law enforcement has a trump card if they choose to exercise it. Carrying to the terror of the public is available, and has been used in the past against OCers. Just be aware.
    It's because I hate Trump.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    True, however...had his gun been concealed this wouldn't have happened.
    I don't give a rip how one carries. I just know that 99% of the time you'll never see my weapon. Out of sight, out of mind of the idiot general public. Even if I was completely legal, and in the right, even taking 5 minutes out of my day to explain to a cop etc why I had a gun, ain't worth it to me.

    That's pretty much how I see it too. I cannot actually understand why someone would need to OC anyway. I'm not talking about while hunting or working a ranch or other rural activities -- I'm talking about urban or suburban, with lots of common folks here and there around you. I do appreciate the right to OC and don't have any qualms about it being enacted here (in Texas) for Jan 1 2016. Fine with me if someone else wants to. I'm just not too clear about why.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    If I understand it right, you have to have a concealed carry LIC# to OC?"

    I can see where a lot of folks will be stopped and asked to produce their permit to CCW by LEOs who just wanna know or don't like the law.

    I guess they had better be prepared to defend their gun with their lives because if one gets into the wrong hands/stolen from a holster and used in a crime it will be splattered all over the news like a school shootin..................and conceivably cause more harm than good to gun owners.

    Will Texas allow OC (providing it becomes a law as it appears it will) by CCW holders from other states it honors?

    Personally, I'm on the fence with exercising this option if I had it in FLA.................a BG will be in for a big surprise if a CCW pulls a handgun on him OTOH will it be better as a visible deterrent?

    Might cause a lot of unwanted attention to those who do it and yes scare the piss outta those not familiar with firearms.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,952 Senior Member
    The devil's advocate side is that if more people OC'd, folks would get used to seeing guns in the hands of more than just the police, and become accustomed to it. Hard to get over the fear of seeing them if they're all hidden.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,192 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    ..........Might cause a lot of unwanted attention to those who do it and yes scare the piss outta those not familiar with firearms.
    This is why I would rather carry concealed, although I have very little objection to OC. 150 years ago it was no big deal....now it is.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,930 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Folks, this tendency to pick stories to illustrate how bad an idea OC is follows the same pattern as the antis picking up the stories of shootings to prove guns are bad. For every incident like this there are thousands of folks that OCd for the whole day and NOTHING happened. These incidents are statistically insignificant but follow the same sensationalist path as the antis use.

    Amen!

    But I really don't desire to OC. But that's my opinion. If you wish to OC I'm all for your rght to. But as I've said, one reason I like the idea of it being legal is when I go hunting I like to strap on either my 1911 45 or my Model 586 S&W. The latter is scary to the non gun crowd and I would never OC with it for any reason other than when I'm hunting. Now you may ask why am I worried about OC while hunting? Because I've actually come out of my lease with the 586 strapped on and forgot it, driven the two miles from our gate to the Karankaway Store and walked in bigger n Dallas with it on my side, until a guy walked by and said, "Nice Hog Leg you got there," hehehehe. I turned green I think, left my coffee I had just drawn at the coffee machine and ran outside to the car and almost threw the gun inside. If OC would have been legal It would have been no big deal. But as it was, If there woulda been a cop inside I would have probably been toast.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,930 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    Your wording was appropriate, too. It's not for the laws of man to decide.

    I agree and like this. It's not for a government to decide.

    Well that is unless you misuse your right. But a vast majority of Law Abiding citizens don't misuse that right.

    That's the part the anties just don't get.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,930 Senior Member
    One more point I DON'T like about OC. Even some gun people might think you're some kind of NUT JOB, running around with a hog leg strapped to your side. Some will accuse you of having a Barney Fife syndrome and that the gun makes you feel BIG. For me, I just don't want the attention and would only use the option when going or returning from hunting.

    But, being a gun guy, if I see you OCing, I'm going to understand where you're coming from. Within the gun fraternity, most of us I think look at it differently. It's not that we want to feel big or important, but we are proud to exercise our God given right to keep and bear arms.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • HvyMaxHvyMax Senior Member Posts: 1,786 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    I would like to see about 1000,000 citizens march on DC doing OC (safely) in support of our RKBA.

    999,999 short!
    Wal Mart where the discriminating white trash shop.
    Paddle faster!!! I hear banjos.
    Reason for editing: correcting my auto correct
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,664 Senior Member
    That you did.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • HvyMaxHvyMax Senior Member Posts: 1,786 Senior Member
    Yeah during the few days of confusion where the police were under strict orders not to mess with anyone carrying. I heard that on the radio and had to go. Besides anyone seeing a big white guy with a flattop carrying probably thought I was a cop.
    Wal Mart where the discriminating white trash shop.
    Paddle faster!!! I hear banjos.
    Reason for editing: correcting my auto correct
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    HvyMax wrote: »
    999,999 short!
    Rock on HVY. You were wearing the camo togs, with canary yellow straps, even then.
    It's because I hate Trump.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,930 Senior Member
    "I would like to see about 1,000,000 citizens march on DC doing OC (safely) in support of our RKBA.
    HvyMax wrote: »
    999,999 short!

    HvyMax, if I'm reading this right, I think you underestimate your fellow gun nuts here.
    I'm not 100% sure, but you might be surprised at how many of us would show up at such a gathering. I am no day to day open carrier guy as I've explained, but I Would show up in a Million Gun Nut March with my favorite hog leg strapped on to help ram home the fact that we all, all law abiding non felonious Americans, have a God Given RIGHT to carry our firearms, whether in plain view or inside a box if we so choose. And I think I would have LOTS of company.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,139 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    I agree and like this. It's not for a government to decide.

    Well that is unless you misuse your right. But a vast majority of Law Abiding citizens don't misuse that right.

    That's the part the anties just don't get.

    Spot on sir.

    If yout look at criminal law, by and large, it is structured to provide a consequence for infringement upon others' life, liberty, and/or pursuits of happiness. Where criminal law begins to encroach into personal freedoms is the legislating of crimes that DON'T affect L,L, and POH of others.

    Like hunting over a marsh with lead shot.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
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