One Smelt fish found in Delta/CA lets billions gal water go into ocean

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Replies

  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,424 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    Just one big life tax, what's fair say 75% of your income?

    Sort of like the guy who heard a rumor of a proposed "personal endowment" tax- - - - - - - -he immediately filed for an extension!

    :devil:
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,246 Senior Member
    I still want to understand how these water markets would work. Are the people who own the water rights now, farmers etc. going to be able to sell their water to the highest bidder in free market system encouraging them to exercise their capitalistic rights. Or, is this that the Government will seize water rights that were claimed by these folks completely legally when they settled in these arid, fertile regions many years ago, allowing the Government to sell to the highest bidder property seized from private citizens. Thereby pricing out all but those who can afford luxury pricing on their drinking water.
    Yeah that sounds better.

    Explain please, enlighten me.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    KSU, I don't know how it will be settled, but I can give you one scenario when the lease the farmers have runs out. The large cities will use Eminent Domain to seize the assets (canal and water rights) for the 'public good' and tell the farmers to go pound sand, as in jack their water price to unsustainable levels. The farmers will be in possession of a lot of now worthless land, and have to sell at fire sale prices. At which the food they produce will be gone; and the residents of the city can eat the grass they water with the water formerly used to grow crops.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,246 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    KSU, I don't know how it will be settled, but I can give you one scenario when the lease the farmers have runs out. The large cities will use Eminent Domain to seize the assets (canal and water rights) for the 'public good' and tell the farmers to go pound sand, as in jack their water price to unsustainable levels. The farmers will be in possession of a lot of now worthless land, and have to sell at fire sale prices. At which the food they produce will be gone; and the residents of the city can eat the grass they water with the water formerly used to grow crops.

    That is kind of what I thought as well. I love it when people take the position that we do not need farmers. Always have a better way of managing the land/ resources than the "grubby dirt kickers". It is incomprehensible to me that a grown adult that has been to the DMV to get their license renewed will advocate putting government bureaucracy in charge of anything. I work for a local one, I know how stupid it can get. The higher up the food chain of government you go, the dumber it can get. Creating a brand new one to sell everyone their water would get pricy quick. Want to use your boat in the river, pay a "polluting use" fee. Oh you are going fishing while on your boat? Pay an aquatic life harassment fee. Using live bait? Pay a biological waste pollutant fee. Not to mention how much it will cost to truck all the food in when there aren't any farms anymore. I still want to hear how this will work out so much better than trying to find new sources of water.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,695 Senior Member
    That is kind of what I thought as well. I love it when people take the position that we do not need farmers. Always have a better way of managing the land/ resources than the "grubby dirt kickers". It is incomprehensible to me that a grown adult that has been to the DMV to get their license renewed will advocate putting government bureaucracy in charge of anything. I work for a local one, I know how stupid it can get. The higher up the food chain of government you go, the dumber it can get. Creating a brand new one to sell everyone their water would get pricy quick. Want to use your boat in the river, pay a "polluting use" fee. Oh you are going fishing while on your boat? Pay an aquatic life harassment fee. Using live bait? Pay a biological waste pollutant fee. Not to mention how much it will cost to truck all the food in when there aren't any farms anymore. I still want to hear how this will work out so much better than trying to find new sources of water.



    Bear in mind, this came from a guy that advocates eliminating military pensions as it hurts the economy.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    Bear in mind, this came from a guy that advocates eliminating military pensions as it hurts the economy.

    Is this the same guy that called me out on my 'credentials' on water treatment? I don't think he liked my answer! :roll2:
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    Hmmm. Farmers. How can people who buy $250,000 pieces of equipment to feed you more efficiently be thought of as ignorant dirt kickers? Why do the city people who think a pork chop magically begins and ends at Safeway supposedly know more? This thread may now resume its preassigned programming.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    OK what did the Smelt say when it swam into a wall...................



    DRUM ROLL PLEASE..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................


    ............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................


    DAM
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    OK what did the Smelt say when it swam into a wall...................



    DRUM ROLL PLEASE

    DAM

    You know what? With aquaculture being at the state it is, those smelt could be marketed as a delicacy and raised in fish farms like nobody's bidness!

    As to watering lawns, they could do what a lot of Flawduh cities are doing. They use the treated water from the sewage treatment plants for irrigation water instead of releasing it to the ocean. It isn't potable water my any stretch of the imagination :vomit:, but works just fine for watering the lawn. Just requires running a second water supply line alongside the potable water line. And since the 'chunks' are strained out, it also makes a low grade fertilizer! :tooth:
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,147 Senior Member
    Liberals don't like farmers because they use too much water, pollute the land with pesticides and fertilizer and produce too much greenhouse gases (cow farts).
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,147 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    You know what? With aquaculture being at the state it is, those smelt could be marketed as a delicacy and raised in fish farms like nobody's bidness!

    As to watering lawns, they could do what a lot of Flawduh cities are doing. They use the treated water from the sewage treatment plants for irrigation water instead of releasing it to the ocean. It isn't potable water my any stretch of the imagination :vomit:, but works just fine for watering the lawn. Just requires running a second water supply line alongside the potable water line. And since the 'chunks' are strained out, it also makes a low grade fertilizer! :tooth:
    I believe it's low-grade treatment. They kill live organisms but it's not fit to drink. A lot of communities in my area are using that system.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,101 Senior Member
    Other communities are moving to encouraging xeriscaping. Part of the problem is homeowner's associations specify needing grass or, worse than that, St. Augustine grass.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • rberglofrberglof Senior Member Posts: 2,386 Senior Member
    Talked to my brother last night and he was fishing in a lake a couple days ago that is part of the California aqueduct system and snagged a smelt in the head, it died so guess no more smelt left.

    He said that the farmers are pulling water out of the ground like crazy to keep the crops growing.
    He also said that there is an aqueduct going right through Bakersfield that is running full bore to get water down to the Los Angeles area, farmers don't get any of it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Joaquin_Valley
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    I believe it's low-grade treatment. They kill live organisms but it's not fit to drink. A lot of communities in my area are using that system.

    Yeah, it's treated to a certain extent, but the allowable bacteria level is pretty high. Wouldn't fly for potable water by any stretch.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    The waste that is used on lawns has to meet the same quality levels as waste water that is discharged back into bodies of fresh water.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,743 Senior Member
    I still want to understand how these water markets would work. Are the people who own the water rights now, farmers etc. going to be able to sell their water to the highest bidder in free market system encouraging them to exercise their capitalistic rights. Or, is this that the Government will seize water rights that were claimed by these folks completely legally when they settled in these arid, fertile regions many years ago, allowing the Government to sell to the highest bidder property seized from private citizens. Thereby pricing out all but those who can afford luxury pricing on their drinking water.
    Yeah that sounds better.

    Explain please, enlighten me.
    Yes, in general how they work is to allow the people with water rights to sell the water that they're allocated based on that right. That way farmer Joe can decide if his water is worth more to someone else than the crop he's going to grow with it and sell it. Those deals do happen now, but they are more face to face deals which means much higher transaction costs.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,743 Senior Member
    Buford wrote: »
    Just an observation from a guy who crosses the La river and San Gabriel river on a daily basis and looks at all the water running into the ocean on a daily basis has to disagree. And when it rains these concrete rivers just fill up with water and dump it all in the ocean. I think more reservoirs would be a great idea. The problem is the not in my backyard mentality.
    The LA river is basically a massive storm drain. All that water you're talking about is mostly runnoff and is heavily polluted. There is a dam upstream of LA that could be used but apparently water quality is way too low to be useful.

    The San Gabriel has two large reservoirs upstream of LA as well so pretty much all water before it gets to LA is stored there for use by the city. Whatever you're seeing downstream is again mostly runnoff from the city (again lots of pollution) and if they have to discharge because the reservoirs are full.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 7,041 Senior Member
    The LA river is basically a massive storm drain. All that water you're talking about is mostly runnoff and is heavily polluted. There is a dam upstream of LA that could be used but apparently water quality is way too low to be useful.

    So, lemme get this straight. . .the only water we can use at all is that which we've piped down from some mountaintop?

    My wife and I have been experimenting with putting our empty plastic kitty littler buckets (about 5 gallons each) under the eaves of our little 1200 square foot house (almost nobody in SoCal has gutters). I would guess that with the buckets available we're catching less than 30% of the roof runoff, and a quarter to half inch of rain is getting us over a hundred gallons of water for our veggie garden. Need to re-paint first, but rain gutters and collection barrels are coming.

    Those same little storms can fill our street runoff gutters up to the 4" height of the curb and halfway to the center of the road with fast-flowing water. Yes, the longer it flows through yards and on concrete, the more junk it picks up, but we've got water treatment anyway right? How is creating an effective runoff collection system NOT part of the solution?
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    I never will forget back about 1990/91 some scientist in Huntsville ALA area came on local news and drank some treated sewage water they had poured into 8 oz glasses.............then a couple days later a couple of them got really sick in the gut............they hadn't quite perfected it as they thought.

    I'm sure it has improved a lot in 25 years, but I'm not certain they are even there yet and don't wanna be the guinea pig to find out. Outside/industrial/not used a potable water yes, go fer it.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    The waste that is used on lawns has to meet the same quality levels as waste water that is discharged back into bodies of fresh water.

    Been 12 years since I set foot on the nuke plant property, but I used to have to go with the Chem Lab tech to pull samples on our sewage treatment plant discharge water, and adjust the chemical feed. Liquid got discharged and solids got landfilled. And our waste water holding pond sampling, water treatment, and discharge ponds was another thing that was a daily deal.

    Did you know that if enough geese on a 40 acre holding pond poop in the water it can screw up the pH so bad you have to add chemicals to the water to neutralize the pH before it can be released? I hated that job. Had to start up a big diesel pump that pulled water from the pond and discharged into a sparger line on the pond bottom, and the chemical injection line was on the pump suction. Had to fill barrels with acid or caustic sitting in the back of the truck and then drive out to the pump and run chemical hoses to the pump, and let the pump suck out whatever chemical was in the barrels. Not so bad in winter, but wearing all that chemical protective gear in the middle of summer sucked.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    The LA river is basically a massive storm drain. All that water you're talking about is mostly runnoff and is heavily polluted. There is a dam upstream of LA that could be used but apparently water quality is way too low to be useful.

    Not true that it is too polluted to treat for potable water. What IS true is that it requires more treatment than snowmelt captured in a reservoir. And if, like a reservoir, it was captured and allowed to settle out the solids, it would require about the same amount of treatment as the reservoir water. But is a fact that it is easier to steal the water that the farmers provided for their own use than it is to spend money on a water treatment plant. That would take money from the social welfare programs.

    The San Gabriel has two large reservoirs upstream of LA as well so pretty much all water before it gets to LA is stored there for use by the city. Whatever you're seeing downstream is again mostly runnoff from the city (again lots of pollution) and if they have to discharge because the reservoirs are full.

    And animals, aquatic birds, and fish use the reservoirs for their own personal toilet, so that water has to be treated to become potable water. And bacteria grow in the reservoirs, too. As to the pollution in the LA river, that's just proof that humans living in large cities are one of the few animals that foul their own nests.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,101 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Been 12 years since I set foot on the nuke plant property, but I used to have to go with the Chem Lab tech to pull samples on our sewage treatment plant discharge water, and adjust the chemical feed. Liquid got discharged and solids got landfilled. And our waste water holding pond sampling, water treatment, and discharge ponds was another thing that was a daily deal.

    Did you know that if enough geese on a 40 acre holding pond poop in the water it can screw up the pH so bad you have to add chemicals to the water to neutralize the pH before it can be released? I hated that job. Had to start up a big diesel pump that pulled water from the pond and discharged into a sparger line on the pond bottom, and the chemical injection line was on the pump suction. Had to fill barrels with acid or caustic sitting in the back of the truck and then drive out to the pump and run chemical hoses to the pump, and let the pump suck out whatever chemical was in the barrels. Not so bad in winter, but wearing all that chemical protective gear in the middle of summer sucked.
    If enough seabirds use a water body, they can raise the fecal coliform levels to reach "impaired" statues.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,743 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    So, lemme get this straight. . .the only water we can use at all is that which we've piped down from some mountaintop?

    My wife and I have been experimenting with putting our empty plastic kitty littler buckets (about 5 gallons each) under the eaves of our little 1200 square foot house (almost nobody in SoCal has gutters). I would guess that with the buckets available we're catching less than 30% of the roof runoff, and a quarter to half inch of rain is getting us over a hundred gallons of water for our veggie garden. Need to re-paint first, but rain gutters and collection barrels are coming.

    Those same little storms can fill our street runoff gutters up to the 4" height of the curb and halfway to the center of the road with fast-flowing water. Yes, the longer it flows through yards and on concrete, the more junk it picks up, but we've got water treatment anyway right? How is creating an effective runoff collection system NOT part of the solution?
    Tons of technical solutions, they all cost money and the question is always who pays. When water has no price or has a highly subsidized price there is little incentive to implement the various technical solutions. One of the biggest areas for improvement is in irrigation efficiency. The cost per unit of water savings is way way cheaper than almost anything else that can be done to save water. Unfortunately with limited markets to easily sell the water they saved so there's very little incentive to spend the money. Effective markets could create more efficient and profitable farms that produce as much or more output with less water, but nah, let's not do that. Let's instead spend billions on treatment, RO, and more tax payer funded dams and reservoirs.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,743 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    And animals, aquatic birds, and fish use the reservoirs for their own personal toilet, so that water has to be treated to become potable water. And bacteria grow in the reservoirs, too. As to the pollution in the LA river, that's just proof that humans living in large cities are one of the few animals that foul their own nests.
    There's a limit to traditional municipal water treatement (remember the Lake Erie algal bloom that shut down Toledo's municipal water system last year), but yes all potable water is treated to some degree. Could be done, question as always how much water could you actually make useful and what is cost? Wouldn't it be better to let markets decide which solutions are best than to have governments trying to do it?
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    There's a limit to traditional municipal water treatement (remember the Lake Erie algal bloom that shut down Toledo's municipal water system last year), but yes all potable water is treated to some degree. Could be done, question as always how much water could you actually make useful and what is cost? Wouldn't it be better to let markets decide which solutions are best than to have governments trying to do it?

    Algae blooms happen when runoff from over fertilized URBAN and farmland reaches a body of water and over fertilizes the algae. Breamfisher could school you on the problems that causes on the big Gulf Coast cities in FL. Specifically the Caloosahatchee River that enters the Gulf at Ft. Myers, FL and is the river that drains water from Lake Okeechobee. Big Sugar lands around the lake are loaded with nutrients that get washed into the lake and flow by river to the Gulf. The Caloosahatchee River is being tasked with removing most of the excess water from the lake due to the normal sheet flow of water South to the Everglades now being mostly cut off. They drained part of the swamp to build houses, and created a big problem for the Glades and the Gulf of Mexico in the process.

    And FWIW, Asiatic clams are a bigger problem in the Great Lakes as to water plants and cooling water inlets than algae ever will be. And when you have an algae bloom that overwhelms the Asiatic clams, that's more notable than you realize. Over fertilization of lawns and golf courses is just as big a deal as agricultural runoff. So go ahead and point your index finger at the farmers, and realize that there are three fingers pointing back at you. Those green lawns and golf greens have a price.

    As to farmers 'wasting' water on irrigation, I feel you don't have a clue as to what it takes to raise a crop of anything where irrigation is necessary. Boom irrigation is still king because it is the most cost effective way to water crops. Do you have any clue how expensive irrigating any crop with drip irrigation would be? I'm thinking not. But if you think that drip irrigation is better, then you'd change your mind when you went to the supermarket to buy some fruit and vegetables. A $10 head of lettuce and $15/lb. tomatoes might change your tune.

    As to cost, like I already said, catch the runoff and divert it into a reservoir, let it settle out the dirt and other materials, and treat it like it already is now. As to the trash in the water, traveling screen systems can remove the debris before it enters the reservoir; that's how water treatment plants remove debris at their inlets now,and have since forever. Grease, oil, and fuel sheen can be removed by both boom systems and by evaporation, like they do now. Nothing new here. Been done for a long, long time.

    Your excuses as to why it can't be done are just that, excuses not to do what is easily done. Cities have water departments whose task is to provide potable water. If they do not add on equipment and facilities to do so, then those running it should be removed. The money angle is another excuse; they make a profit on each gallon of potable water. Use the profits to expand facilities and utilize water sources already present. They answer to the city and citizens, so their feet should be held to the fire. I find your hatred of farmers and ranchers illogical in that you do seem to have the need to eat once in a while. Sayin'.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    They need to get their own feces together before they start fining folks...............

    Cellphone Video Captures Caltrans Sprinklers Watering Freeway Hillsides In The Rain

    http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2015/05/08/cellphone-video-captures-caltrans-sprinklers-watering-freeway-hillsides-in-the-rain/
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,147 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Algae blooms happen when runoff from over fertilized URBAN and farmland reaches a body of water and over fertilizes the algae. Breamfisher could school you on the problems that causes on the big Gulf Coast cities in FL. Specifically the Caloosahatchee River that enters the Gulf at Ft. Myers, FL and is the river that drains water from Lake Okeechobee. Big Sugar lands around the lake are loaded with nutrients that get washed into the lake and flow by river to the Gulf. The Caloosahatchee River is being tasked with removing most of the excess water from the lake due to the normal sheet flow of water South to the Everglades now being mostly cut off. They drained part of the swamp to build houses, and created a big problem for the Glades and the Gulf of Mexico in the process.........

    Fertilizer runoff is a huge problem in Florida lakes that are surrounded by farmland, which they usually are because of the plentiful water.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    Fertilizer runoff is a huge problem in Florida lakes that are surrounded by farmland, which they usually are because of the plentiful water.

    There are several ways to mitigate runoff from agricultural land that have been used for a long, long time. And they work especially well where irrigation or heavy rainfall is normal. On the hillside farms in East TN the method is terracing, like China and SE Asia has practiced for centuries. It slows down runoff to a crawl and checks erosion right now.
    In FL I've seen quite a few farms that use another method that is geared to flat or gently sloping land. A wide and deep ditch is dug at the bottom of the hill (slope) between the land and water intersection. It serves to both stop runoff, and is a source of water, with fertilizer already in solution, for irrigation purposes. But that's mostly private (read non-corporate) farms that have real farmers and not corporate weenies running the operation. Some of the water in the ditch will leach into the body of water, but most of the nutrients are trapped on the way.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,743 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    There are several ways to mitigate runoff from agricultural land that have been used for a long, long time. And they work especially well where irrigation or heavy rainfall is normal. On the hillside farms in East TN the method is terracing, like China and SE Asia has practiced for centuries. It slows down runoff to a crawl and checks erosion right now.
    In FL I've seen quite a few farms that use another method that is geared to flat or gently sloping land. A wide and deep ditch is dug at the bottom of the hill (slope) between the land and water intersection. It serves to both stop runoff, and is a source of water, with fertilizer already in solution, for irrigation purposes. But that's mostly private (read non-corporate) farms that have real farmers and not corporate weenies running the operation. Some of the water in the ditch will leach into the body of water, but most of the nutrients are trapped on the way.
    Yep, lots of relatively low tech and fairly inexpensive methods to minimize the issue, but most places there is absolutely no incentive to implement them, just like the more efficient irrigation systems.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    Yep, lots of relatively low tech and fairly inexpensive methods to minimize the issue, but most places there is absolutely no incentive to implement them, just like the more efficient irrigation systems.

    No incentive for the corporate farm, but plenty for the owner/operator of a large farm. Over the long haul, money is saved, soil erosion is stopped, and the land is preserved in better condition for better crop yields.

    Only irrigation more efficient than boom, or channel irrigation(water runs between rows of the crops), is drip irrigation. Out where the large corn and vegetable crops grow, they grow by the section, or square mile. Like I said, price 10,000 miles of drip irrigation hose. Yeah, it's more efficient, but George Soros couldn't afford to do it and make a profit.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



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