Home Main Category Personal Defense

Do you practice ambi R/L self defense shooting?

2»

Replies

  • samzheresamzhere Banned HoustonPosts: 10,923 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    Two weeks ago, we had a guy shoot an entire speed steel match with his weak had becuase of a shoulder injury. At the end all he said was he wished he had practiced more with his weak hand over the years.

    I mean, it's no big deal if you've got the range time and the inclination to practice offhand until you're okay and reasonably comfy with it. No biggie.

    And Big, yeah, injury is one thing and if the natural hand is injured then offhand is a must. Most likely this is correct learning for LEOs or military, since they're most likely to be in a real firefight rather than civilians, whose shooting experience will likely be about 2 minutes and maybe 5 rounds max.

    But why not spend a little range time messing with offhand shooting? It certainly doesn't make your normal shooting get worse and it's a little personal challenge you can do, just for the sheer fun of it. And if you're at least adequate and not hamfisted when shooting offhand, that's a plus as I see it.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Under a logPosts: 27,457 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Good info. Not being a hunter I didn't realize the potential benefit of maybe occasionally practicing off-hand long gun stuff. Keen.

    Skills learned hunting are pretty much directly convertible to self defense. Being able to shoot from either side is one, and use of cover is another. And observation skills like picking out a deer in thick cover by the white belly hair, or a rabbit by seeing that big round marble eye in the fence row.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • samzheresamzhere Banned HoustonPosts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Thanks for the extra hunting info, tenn. I never really focused on ambi shooting until just a few years ago and when I hunted for deer as a young guy, I had this nice left-handed Ruger .243 that did me fine in the overgrown brush areas where we hunted for the smallish deer. And at the time I was 100% lefty and for me to even try to shoot a rifle right-handed would have made me look like a circus contortionist. ha ha
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,704 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    But why not spend a little range time messing with offhand shooting? It certainly doesn't make your normal shooting get worse and it's a little personal challenge you can do, just for the sheer fun of it. And if you're at least adequate and not hamfisted when shooting offhand, that's a plus as I see it.

    Most of what you say is true - for us enthusiast types anyway - but for those who need a firearm for protection without "living it", my inner "the glass does not even exist" pessimist has some disagreements.

    It's true you may someday find yourself bleeding out on the pavement with your final thoughts being "If only I learned how to shoot weak-handed, I wouldn't be in this mess"

    Of course, you may also find yourself in the same situation with your final thoughts being "If only I'd learned how to fast-rope face-first off a rooftop. . ."

    We tend to forget that handguns are difficult to run well. For a reminder, just go to any well-populated range and make note of the level of marksmanship, manipulation, and safe handling skill that you see. In a martial arts sense, these folks are never going to learn how to do a spinning heel kick - let alone use one in a fight - but at least we would like to see them learn how to use basic blocks, punches, and kicks effectively, or, in our case, draw, hit center mass, reload, and clear malfunctions. Those basics are mostly what gets used in fights anyway. For the enthusiast, this stuff is fun. For the necessarily-armed individual, it is often hard, frustrating work. You can "what if" the contingencies to death, but if you fill up your training time with outside possibilities, the perishable basics that are most likely to save your bacon don't get maintained. In that sense, spending your limited time and ammo on weak-hand shooting CAN make your normal shooting worse, insofar as it keeps you from getting better. It's like running the Starship Enterprise; you only have so much power - how much do you send to engines, shields, or life support?
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • EliEli Senior Member Attalla, Alabama.Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    ....and since it's a common tendency for people to get "phaser lock" on the weapon being pointed at them, it's not uncommon to get shot in the hands/arms....


    Getting tagged in the knuckle of your trigger finger with a Sim/FX round really drives this point home. Had this been a real thug instead of a local deputy, and a lead .38 slug instead of a paint marker, I definitely wouldn't have been able to continue firing with my strong had.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned HoustonPosts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Excellent post, Big. Your comparison to martial arts is a good one.

    And yeah, I was speaking to "our own kind" -- aka gun nuts when I posted about off-hand shooting. I certainly don't practice it because I might get injured during a fierce firefight with bunches of ninja vampires. For me, it's just that I can easily pick up my .45 with either hand and just as easily hit a target with good reliability. And this is of course because I practice almost exclusively for self defense. This means that I can hit an incoming "target" at about 15 feet center-tapping most rounds.

    For me, it's also safer that were I to grab the pistol right-handed (offhand for me) I won't hit anything else but the target.

    And you're totally correct -- for a 1st level self defense shooter, having offhand proficiency is distracting and takes valuable time from the central focus of being able to hit a simple target half the time.

    I should have stated this initially but yeah, the idea of spending time shooting offhand is mostly for us gun nuts. And for us, any time spent sending lead downrange is a good time.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned HoustonPosts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Here are 2 examples. The green head is from my .45 XD and the other is my 1911 (avatar). Each are from 25ft. The green is 100% right hand (my offhand), 10 shots, and the other is 15 shots (3 separate mags of 5 each) just to mess with changing mags. The 15 shot image shows 3 "misses" and 12 in the black, and this was 5 left, 5 right, 5 left. You can see that switching hands is not much of a detriment (the 3 "misses" were all righthand, if I remember correctly). All were 230gr FMJ practice ammo.

    offhand%2025ft.jpg

    20ft15rdoperator.jpg

    All was "quick fire" which means that I acquired a front-sight fast aim and fired, with subsequent rounds about as fast as I could pull the trigger.

    These are pretty typical of my normal 25ft-20ft accuracy.
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    I got a bit scared this Sunday, I got a sudden flame like pain in My trigger finger, and I started to think all manner of bad diseases, however I had been getting over the flu, no flu shot this year, an oversight, I have always shot ambi and prefer pistols that are ambi as of late, as you get older, you never know what may give out suddenly.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • samzheresamzhere Banned HoustonPosts: 10,923 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    I got a bit scared this Sunday, I got a sudden flame like pain in My trigger finger, and I started to think all manner of bad diseases, however I had been getting over the flu, no flu shot this year, an oversight, I have always shot ambi and prefer pistols that are ambi as of late, as you get older, you never know what may give out suddenly.

    Good comment. I've seen recommendations for older people, with sagging hand and wrist strength, to use a revolver because racking the slide on an auto would be difficult.

    I started shooting ambi due to my left arm injury and now I do so for the fun of it, and also to keep myself prepped for either hand. Just as it happens, I sleep on the left side of the bed as you face it, so my right hand is outward toward the bedside table where I keep my 1911. And in the living room where I am now sitting, my little metal 3-level book rack (XD .45 on the middle shelf) is just adjacent my right hand.

    After the practice, I can pretty well shoot, and shoot quickly, with either hand. No biggie, but no loss either, hey.

    Sorry I cleaned up my Photobucket and deleted those target images. All they showed was a pretty tight grouping at 20-25ft, most rounds in the black.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Dellrose TNPosts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Does anybody else remember when the US Army used a training method called "Quick Kill" which involved point-shooting with a Daisy BB gun? Basically, it employed a dirt-cheap method of instinctively acquiring a target and making effective hits at short to moderate range. Something similar could be done with an airsoft gun or a .22 rimfire if the ammo supply ever recovers from its current drought. The muscle memory gained from repeatedly engaging a target with either hand at GTFOM distances might be a worthwhile addition to a practice routine.
    Jerry
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    A real good shot should be able to change hands without losing a stroke :jester:

    Actually, not as much as I should. I'd rather practice shootin with my left hand out in the woods, not on a crowded range. I guess that shows I'm not all that confident in my abilities.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • samzheresamzhere Banned HoustonPosts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    A real good shot should be able to change hands without losing a stroke :jester:

    Actually, not as much as I should. I'd rather practice shootin with my left hand out in the woods, not on a crowded range. I guess that shows I'm not all that confident in my abilities.

    Hey, dude, nobody at the range will pay any attention to you. Unless of course you're talking about a different sort of stroking here. That might get you banned, y'know.

    Seriously, I always go to the range during off-hours, being retired it's easy. I go mid-week afternoons and it's clean and only a couple of cops are there, off duty and shooting and drinking coffee and BSing.

    Last time I was there this one cop was irritated at himself because he couldn't outshoot me using my 1911 (avatar photo). I was as usual practicing close range, 20-25ft and putting most rounds in the center, and he laughed, "Remind me not to arrest you." I told him he was welcome to do so if I messed up somehow and it was a general laugh.

    Very nice guys at the range where I shoot.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,759 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Yes. I do. I'm ambidextrous.

    Because I want to. Because I can. Because it helps.

    It's an improvement upon a skill I believe in. That being proficiency with firearms. As an instructor, it helps when teaching wrong minded people (lefties) to be able to show them what they are expected to do.........left handed.

    As a side note, I shot my largest Muley left handed as he came in to view from the "wrong" direction. I rotated the gun and shot him from the left shoulder.

    There have been other times where positioning my firearm on my left side has proven beneficial...........if not mandatory. Use of cover and all.

    Don't see the harm in additional capability and I've seen the benefit.

    You're lucky to be ambidextrous. I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous. :)
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,076 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    You're lucky to be ambidextrous. I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous. :)

    38127B1C-09DF-4EA3-ACD0-A860327ABCA8_zps5bgbqa0k.gif
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • NNNN Senior Member NCPosts: 25,221 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    You're lucky to be ambidextrous. I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous. :)
    Well, you really think that would work?
  • samzheresamzhere Banned HoustonPosts: 10,923 Senior Member
    A long time ago I developed an "overlap" method that you can use to practice unloaded and then at the range (assuming that you don't have vast acreage on which to shoot unimpeded.

    With the unloaded gun, practice drawing and dry fire, as you've done. Then, at the range, assuming that range rules don't allow you do draw and fire unless you're in a tactical course (most ranges don't allow drawing and firing) then lower the pistol to the lowest angle allowed by the rules, raise and fire. And at the same time, "overlap" the motion with the dry firing practice so that you can develop a modestly successful draw and fire technique.

    Of course if you're in the woods or on a tactical range, this is different, but lots of folks can't afford to shoot freely via either venue.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    It would be good to re-read the infamous FBI event involving the felony stop of Platt & Maddox (sp?) some Agents were shot in their gun arms etc...... I think such practice has merit.....
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • samzheresamzhere Banned HoustonPosts: 10,923 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    It would be good to re-read the infamous FBI event involving the felony stop of Platt & Maddox (sp?) some Agents were shot in their gun arms etc...... I think such practice has merit.....

    Agreed. But I also sincerely doubt that I'd be able to respond lethally after having been shot in one arm, not that I would be totally incapacitated but that the attacker would then proceed to kill me next shot. If I can't hit the attacker first, I'm likely lost.

    Regardless, I do practice ambi even for the fun of it, and as I've said, because it just happens with my home layout that the pistols are to my right side most of the time. And truthfully, I have practiced so much right-handed that I am pretty natural grabbing the gun with that off hand. Which is the object of the exercise, I suppose.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Individual results may vary, but I do not think the concept can be written off, LE training is usually limited to mainstream concepts, because of time constraints and budget, however, units like HRT and SWAT units practice outside the box.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
Sign In or Register to comment.
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Guns & Ammo stories delivered right to your inbox every week.

Advertisement