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Obama announces restrictions on distribution of military-style equipment to police

Big ChiefBig Chief Senior MemberPosts: 32,995 Senior Member
Well, many of us on here complained about the over "Militarization of Police", including yours truly, but I wonder what his objective is here? Was their use too effective against rioters and he wants their use held back until the National Guard is called in?

Or is it Tinfoil Hat Time and he wants to disarm police who may side with civilians when he decides to declare Martial Law? :conehead:

Or is it simply a matter of he finally got something right or half right. I see nothing wrong with bayonets/batons and .50 Cals....................and some of the other stuff that he will make more difficult to obtain for them.

You thoughts please.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/05/18/obama-announces-restrictions-on-distribution-military-style-equipment-to-police/


"In previewing the president's trip, the White House said that effective immediately, the federal government will no longer fund or provide armored vehicles that run on a tracked system instead of wheels, weaponized aircraft or vehicles, firearms or ammunition of .50-caliber or higher, grenade launchers, bayonets or camouflage uniforms. The federal government also is exploring ways to recall prohibited equipment already distributed.

In addition, a longer list of equipment the federal government provides will come under tighter control, including wheeled armored vehicles like Humvees, manned aircraft, drones, specialized firearms, explosives, battering rams and riot batons, helmets and shields. Starting in October, police will have to get approval from their city council, mayor or some other local governing body to obtain it, provide a persuasive explanation of why it is needed and have more training and data collection on the use of the equipment."
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
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Replies

  • Elk creekElk creek Senior Member Posts: 7,370 Senior Member
    Just assume this POTUS has absolutely NO intention of doing the right or good thing. If you start from there we may see a portion of what this wanna-be dictator is thinking.
    Aim higher, or get a bigger gun.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    This should make all the mall ninjas here happy, those who see a takeover conspiracy under the bed along with the dust bunnies. They've been griping and worrying about the cops having military style equipment for some time here, and they need to be very pleased to find that Obama is on their side.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,327 Senior Member
    Sounds like the idiot threw down a blanket restriction that's going to be wasteful of equipment and money on both sides of the line. Hanging onto heavy battlefield weapons? I'm fine with that. Restricting small arms? Ummm. . .well, OK, but departments are buying M4's for SWAT teams with their own money anyway. APC's and gear that goes to MP units for riot control? This is legit LE use stuff. If it's surplus, why make the local governments pay full retail. Explosives? Same thing. Police EOD teams use them to destroy suspicious packages and the like or assist with high-risk breachings. What difference does it make where it comes from?

    And thinking bigger picture: What does this mean for likes of Garands and other firearms that might be sold through the CMP to the public? Such as those 1911's we were just discussing on the general form? Or, to get a little more tin-foil-hatty, what about those that already have been? Crates of 1863 rifle-muskets or 1880's cavalry saddles that are undoubtedly still crated in National Guard armories? Add a buttload of money to the national treasury selling them to collectors or sit on / destroy them because they used to be military items?

    I suspect this is yet another ill-conceived political move by Barry O to pander to his supporters in the urban sprawl in the short term, that will have long term negative repercussions.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • wildgenewildgene Senior Member Posts: 1,036 Senior Member
    ...simple enough, claim that local PD's cannot be trusted/ aren't qualified to deal w/ civil unrest, & the "Only Answer" is the "Federal Police Force" he's been trying to get since he's been elected...
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    wildgene wrote: »
    ...simple enough, claim that local PD's cannot be trusted/ aren't qualified to deal w/ civil unrest, & the "Only Answer" is the "Federal Police Force" he's been trying to get since he's been elected...

    Ouch! That could be a possibility. Don't know if the Congress would pass a mess like that, though. But they passed O-care and the Patriot Act.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    This should make all the mall ninjas here happy, those who see a takeover conspiracy under the bed along with the dust bunnies. They've been griping and worrying about the cops having military style equipment for some time here, and they need to be very pleased to find that Obama is on their side.
    I guess I'm a mall ninja again. I don't know anything about conspiracies, but I do know my Police dept. doesn't need an MRAP. The question I have is why wasn't this Republican lead? Once again the party for liberty and small government is on the wrong side of liberty and small government.
  • Gator MonroeGator Monroe Banned Posts: 655 Senior Member
    When Islamic Terrorists chew through our local Law Enforcement we may wish they had some of this equipment in future ( Look how many times one or even a few folks have given Law Enforcement fits and paralyzed a city or region ...
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Hide the tinfoil, guys- - - - -we got another one onboard!
    :roll:
    Jerry
  • Gator MonroeGator Monroe Banned Posts: 655 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Hide the tinfoil, guys- - - - -we got another one onboard!
    :roll:
    Jerry
    Boston (Until the guy hiding in the Boat was captured ) Los Angeles (Until the Brother was burned up in the cabin in the Mountains)
  • Elk creekElk creek Senior Member Posts: 7,370 Senior Member
    Wha........??????
    Aim higher, or get a bigger gun.
  • Elk creekElk creek Senior Member Posts: 7,370 Senior Member
    Jade helm! Jade helm!:silly::silly:
    Aim higher, or get a bigger gun.
  • Gator MonroeGator Monroe Banned Posts: 655 Senior Member
    I like the idea of Local Leos being at least as well equipped as the Local or Regional Militia... but hey that's just me because We have a great CCW issuing Sheriff here in Shasta County (Tom Bosenko)
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 14,204 Senior Member
    I like the idea of Local Leos being at least as well equipped as the Local or Regional Militia... but hey that's just me because We have a great CCW issuing Sheriff here in Shasta County (Tom Bosenko)

    Welcome, what is this, no such thing in MN that I know of.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • Gator MonroeGator Monroe Banned Posts: 655 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 wrote: »
    Welcome, what is this, no such thing in MN that I know of.

    No CCW/CHL/CWP in MN ?
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,911 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote:
    Well, many of us on here complained about the over "Militarization of Police", including yours truly, but I wonder what his objective is here? Was their use too effective against rioters and he wants their use held back until the National Guard is called in?

    Totally in response to the ghetto whiners and commie provocateurs in Ferguson and Baltimore
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,877 Senior Member
    No CCW/CHL/CWP in MN ?
    He's referring to the part that he bolded: the Local or Regional Militia
    I'm just here for snark.
  • Gator MonroeGator Monroe Banned Posts: 655 Senior Member
    He's referring to the part that he bolded: the Local or Regional Militia

    That's sad ( Even California allows Militia activities & training legally ) too many States to list have Local & Regional Militias these days and Militia is en vogue again ...
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    The way Odumba stated it is prohibiting the Feds from types the Feds provide to local and state depts. He did also state that some gear would be need to be "tracked" by the Feds if provided by the Feds. Yes, he did say local and state depts could still acquire it on the open market at their expense. But do you remember the Executive Order he cut in December about "21st Century Policing Task Force"? He created a task force to "help" local and state depts that become more "transparent". The appointees to the Federal Task Force are people like Charles Ramsey of DC PD and Philly PD fame, Connie rice who is Condoleezze Rice's cousin and so on ... all are Odumba Admin puppets. While not "issuing" certain equipment is not a violation of State's Rights it to me is the camel's nose getting farther under the tent with Fed involvement in local depts. How long before he goes to the "If you have/do ... then you don't get ..." type thing? Watch the camel ...
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • Gator MonroeGator Monroe Banned Posts: 655 Senior Member
    Better the Local Leos get the Old School M16A1 Rifles to modernize and get into service rather than see them go to Captain Crunch...
  • LanceLance Member Posts: 149 Member
    When Islamic Terrorists chew through our local Law Enforcement we may wish they had some of this equipment in future ( Look how many times one or even a few folks have given Law Enforcement fits and paralyzed a city or region ...

  • Gator MonroeGator Monroe Banned Posts: 655 Senior Member
    I see some feel the sky can not fall here ...
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,575 Senior Member
    I see some feel the sky can not fall here ...

    No, but there are 10,000 Chicken Littles sounding false alarms.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,577 Senior Member
    This is all so ironic to me... I'm not trying to start a typing war here, but statements like "good, my local police department doesn't need a MRAP anyway" is a statement made ignorant of the reality.

    A MRAP is nothing special. It's a slightly up-armored APC vehicle with mostly added undercarriage armor installed at angles to deflect the blast of IEDs and small vehicle mines. It's not some urban pacification machine. When a PD pr SO gets one, it's just a body and a engine... no Ma Deuce, no Mk19, no rockets or anything. It's DE-militarized.

    This is just more horse crap designed to push a federalized police system. Wait a year...it's coming.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • LanceLance Member Posts: 149 Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    This is all so ironic to me... I'm not trying to start a typing war here, but statements like "good, my local police department doesn't need a MRAP anyway" is a statement made ignorant of the reality.

    A MRAP is nothing special. It's a slightly up-armored APC vehicle with mostly added undercarriage armor installed at angles to deflect the blast of IEDs and small vehicle mines. It's not some urban pacification machine. When a PD pr SO gets one, it's just a body and a engine... no Ma Deuce, no Mk19, no rockets or anything. It's DE-militarized.

    This is just more horse crap designed to push a federalized police system. Wait a year...it's coming.

    I'm with you on the federal intentions.

    But MRAPs? How can anyone defend those dinosaurs?
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    This is all so ironic to me... I'm not trying to start a typing war here, but statements like "good, my local police department doesn't need a MRAP anyway" is a statement made ignorant of the reality.

    A MRAP is nothing special. It's a slightly up-armored APC vehicle with mostly added undercarriage armor installed at angles to deflect the blast of IEDs and small vehicle mines. It's not some urban pacification machine. When a PD pr SO gets one, it's just a body and a engine... no Ma Deuce, no Mk19, no rockets or anything. It's DE-militarized.

    This is just more horse crap designed to push a federalized police system. Wait a year...it's coming.
    :roll:
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,877 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    This is all so ironic to me... I'm not trying to start a typing war here, but statements like "good, my local police department doesn't need a MRAP anyway" is a statement made ignorant of the reality.

    A MRAP is nothing special. It's a slightly up-armored APC vehicle with mostly added undercarriage armor installed at angles to deflect the blast of IEDs and small vehicle mines. It's not some urban pacification machine. When a PD pr SO gets one, it's just a body and a engine... no Ma Deuce, no Mk19, no rockets or anything. It's DE-militarized.

    This is just more horse crap designed to push a federalized police system. Wait a year...it's coming.
    My issues with MRAPs and armored APCs are...

    1. It's my understanding there's a bit of specialized maintenance on them, so as a taxpayer my taxes will be going to pay to take care of these things. Is there a better use for this money? Or will the PD have to lobby for new taxes or cut other services or training/equipment for the officers to keep this sort of stuff going?

    2. Does the PD need an armored vehicle? The town of Howey-in-the-Hills has a population of 956. A police chief and 6 officers. Would they need an MRAP in that august community? I can see Tavares, Mt. Dora, Leesburg, the Lake County Sheriff's, or a larger community possibly needing one, but does a smaller department need one? I think that if such a thing is done, the taxpayers need more than a "yes, we need it, believe us" excuse for procurement and the associated maintenance costs.

    Edited to add: I also think that, per the article, some other items need to be examined. What use does a PD have for a .50 cal. or higher rifle? What about bayonets? I can actually understand the grenade launcher, as I understand there are less-lethal, smoke, and gas rounds for those. And restrictions on things like batons and riot shields is just... stupid.
    I'm just here for snark.
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    I concur.
    A local town of 20,000-ish got one. The sherriff was laughed at for taking it.

    Most have been making up for his shortcomings in other areas :jester:

    I can't remember which university is was but their campus police received M16s while another received a demiled Humvee. They were not the only schools to receive stuff either.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    MRAPs have a pretty high center of gravity; they roll over pretty easy. One turned over on I-75 that had just been delivered to a PD in Georgia. Driver was driving way too fast, made a lane change, and laid it on its side in the middle of the road. There have been quite a few rollovers of those things in the military overseas in Afghanistan and Iraq. That high center of gravity will get you fast; so will taking a turn in one too fast. "Help! I've fallen and I can't get up!"

    Seems like the up armored Humvees would be more useful. Not like a local PD is going to have to deal with IEDs any time soon. And a Humvee doesn't need a stepladder to access the back.

    And if the purpose is for riot control, then vehicles with water cannons would probably be more useful to that purpose. All you can do with an MRAP is run over the rioters.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,577 Senior Member
    My issues with MRAPs and armored APCs are...

    1. It's my understanding there's a bit of specialized maintenance on them, so as a taxpayer my taxes will be going to pay to take care of these things. Is there a better use for this money? Or will the PD have to lobby for new taxes or cut other services or training/equipment for the officers to keep this sort of stuff going?

    2. Does the PD need an armored vehicle? The town of Howey-in-the-Hills has a population of 956. A police chief and 6 officers. Would they need an MRAP in that august community? I can see Tavares, Mt. Dora, Leesburg, the Lake County Sheriff's, or a larger community possibly needing one, but does a smaller department need one? I think that if such a thing is done, the taxpayers need more than a "yes, we need it, believe us" excuse for procurement and the associated maintenance costs.

    Edited to add: I also think that, per the article, some other items need to be examined. What use does a PD have for a .50 cal. or higher rifle? What about bayonets? I can actually understand the grenade launcher, as I understand there are less-lethal, smoke, and gas rounds for those. And restrictions on things like batons and riot shields is just... stupid.

    I'll offer this as a comparative:

    Police vehicles are relatively low maintenance in a broader sense. They are commonly manufactured Chevy or Ford cars/trucks. Parts-a-plenty. Per car cost is not outrageous and becomes expensive by virtue of the numbers of cars owned by a county/city. One specialized police vehicle may cost a lot to maintain, but it's only one.

    Now let's look at the fire department... other than a few cars/trucks for the captains and chiefs, it's all specialized vehicles. Expensive specialized vehicles. Locally here, the county has two ladder trucks in the area that can respond if one of the 4 or 5 buildings here over 10 stories require that equipment.

    My city allocated funds to buy a $600,000 ladder truck...state of the art, bells, whistles, you name it. Why? It gets 2mpg of diesel at $3/gal and they drive the thing to pick up LUNCH.

    Now...if my department had a surplus up-armored vehicle, it would only be driven for special purposes and fueled occasionally. No one is driving it to lunch AND we could assist nearby agencies with special circumstances. All we have is an old up-armored Chevy 3500 "peacekeeper" somethingorother. It's junk and so are a large majority of severely aging SWAT armored vehicles.

    So...free MRAP plus maintenance cost...or...
    $250,000 APC plus maintenance cost? We have to replace old crappy equipment sometime...
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,877 Senior Member
    And you don't answer my questions...

    1. Is there a better use for the money?
    2. Where will the money come from?
    3. Is the equipment really needed?

    As taxpayers, we deserve those answers. Don't deflect with talking about fire departments and trying to throw in the cost of patrol vehicles... they're immaterial to the discussion. Their maintenance and replacement should be figured into the annual budget, barring catastrophic event. Instead for new equipment that can be a potential money sink, those expenditures need to be justified and explained.
    I'm just here for snark.
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