Home Main Category Second Amendment/Politics

Sc governor nikki haley calls for removal of confederate flag from statehouse grounds

24

Replies

  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    [IMG][/img]tshirtrebel_zpsnbyz88an.jpg

    [IMG][/img]rebelflg_zpskqq8yl1k.gif
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,467 Senior Member
    The issue seems to be a vehicle to wander off on tangents. It's nothing to do with stopping violence, it's to do with removing a emblem of intolerance that is offensive to a very large percentage of SC and which should never have been hoisted in the first place.

    Anyone can refer to tangential issues like gun control, for example, or crime in Baltimore or wherever as an issue dealing with SC's presence of the Confederate flag. Has nothing to do with it. Haley is strongly supportive of 2nd Amendment rights. And she's right on this issue.

    Seeing a license plate with a battle flag on it is strongly indicative of the presence of intolerance. Regardless of what text you put on it in an attempt to justify it.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    So everyone who wants to celebrate their Southern Heritage by displaying a Confederate flag is intolerant?

    She did it for political expediency and to shut up the race baiters who blamed that flag for the hate that spawned that killer in Charleston................. sorta like blaming a gun for crime isn't it?

    Why now? Why not when she took office or hasn't she mentioned it before? Next they gonna block Fox News from their cable systems because one states Rep said Fox was to blame................................

    I think the ones who want it removed are Intolerant!
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,467 Senior Member
    She specifically said that anyone who wanted to show a Confederate flag on private property was welcome to do so. She just wants it removed from the SC Capitol. What's wrong with that?

    Hate didn't spawn the flag, but haters have adopted it as a symbol of hate and intolerance. That was not the reason it was originally adopted back in 1863 or so, but it has changed now. A few people show it for heritage and pride of that heritage, but for every one of these, there's probably 50 who show if for reasons of racism. And that's wrong for a lot of reasons. It's like the teens in Ohio said it, it's become "the Klan flag" to way too many people.

    I've lived in the South all my life. I've read a lot about the Civil War and used to be a student of history of that era. Flying the Confederate flag is also a political issue, it was put there to object to segregation, and of course removing it is also a political issue. One of three people in SC is black, and almost all of these voters do not approve of the battle flag and want it removed. She's the governor of all these people, not just white people or those who want to fly the battle flag at the SC state house. She may be a politician but her decision was the right one.

    You can show the American flag upside down or being walked on and put text over it that says "True Patriot." The symbol is what it is regardless of justification.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Well damn eBay has jumped on the bandwagon...........to not sell that hateful Southern themed merchandise which caused those murders in Charleston (sarcasm).

    I knew it would spread far beyond the flag and where it is flown issue.

    Anyone else see where this is going, I thought the 1st A applied to all of us?
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,467 Senior Member
    The First Amendment only applies to limiting government powers, which is what each of the 10 Amendments in the Bill of Rights does, not private business. Has nothing to do with Ebay. Can't invoke it when it's convenient to do so.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 10,854 Senior Member
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    The First Amendment only applies to limiting government powers, which is what each of the 10 Amendments in the Bill of Rights does, not private business. Has nothing to do with Ebay. Can't invoke it when it's convenient to do so.

    Oh really, then why do Govt attorneys go after any business with vigor they think have violated a persons right to express themselves or discriminated against them based on religious/political beliefs?
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,467 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Oh really, then why do Govt attorneys go after any business with vigor they think have violated a persons right to express themselves or discriminated against them based on religious/political beliefs?

    Such as?
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    1st A does not apply to private business.

    OK, but what about when the Govt goes after a business like Hobby Lobby for example?

    Burwell v. Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burwell_v._Hobby_Lobby_Stores,_Inc.

    http://www.ala.org/advocacy/intfreedom/censorshipfirstamendmentissues/courtcases
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,467 Senior Member
    That was a civil case where Burwell sued Hobby Lobby and the government, SCOTUS, upheld HL's right to practice their religious convictions.

    I don't think the government went after HL. Nor do I see how this is related to the SC flag case and the governor. The government has not gone after the Confederate flag that I know of.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    The 1st Amendment has been invoked by both sides in arguments in all kinds of cases involving the right to display the Confederate flag from cities/schools to state capitals.

    Now this silliness is snowballing to ridiculous levels. Oh well, at least they don't have the support they need to enact more gun laws right now.

    Amazon sales of the Stars and Bars went up 5000% , but they just went weak kneed and pulled it now too.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,467 Senior Member
    On The Five, Greg Gutfield said something like "What if the flag represents both," meaning Southern Pride and racism. Which it does. Obviously, SC has the "right" to display the flag, which it displays now. If that was an issue, it's been settled for a long time. No argument about whether it's allowed. Whether this right is proper is what's being questioned here.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Believe it or not NPR has a good article on this topic.

    http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/06/22/416548613/the-complicated-political-history-of-the-confederate-flag

    "The flag was first flown over the state Capitol dome (passed by the Democratic Legislature) in 1962 to mark the centennial of the start of the Civil War, but many saw it as a reaction to the civil-rights movement and school desegregation. For nearly four decades, it continued to be a controversial issue in the Palmetto State. A 1994 nonbinding referendum placed on the GOP primary ballot found that three-in-four voters said the flag should keep flying. That same year, black ministers and the NAACP threatened a boycott of the state if the flag didn't come down, and business leaders sued to remove the flag."
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,467 Senior Member
    The Civil War started in April, 1861, not 1862. NPR is repeating an error, although SC may have said that at the time. South Carolina should know this, since that's where it started.

    The MS state flag claims to have a Confederate flag in the upper left with 13 stars to represent the 13 original colonies. It's lip service.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Great OutdoorsGreat Outdoors Member Posts: 284 Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    The issue seems to be a vehicle to wander off on tangents. It's nothing to do with stopping violence, it's to do with removing a emblem of intolerance that is offensive to a very large percentage of SC and which should never have been hoisted in the first place.

    Anyone can refer to tangential issues like gun control, for example, or crime in Baltimore or wherever as an issue dealing with SC's presence of the Confederate flag. Has nothing to do with it. Haley is strongly supportive of 2nd Amendment rights. And she's right on this issue.

    Seeing a license plate with a battle flag on it is strongly indicative of the presence of intolerance. Regardless of what text you put on it in an attempt to justify it.

    Gene- you are so wrong- the MAJORITY (65% ) of our citizens in SC that responded to a poll conducted by the news were in favor of keeping the flag where it is. this poll was taken a couple of days ago. and a license plate with the flag does not show ignorance or intolerance- instead it shows someone's pride that their ancestors stood against tyranny and fought for their freedom.

    Haley flip flopped on the flag issue in the last couple of days, when it first started she said that in all of her business dealings with corporations and ceo's- the flag has NEVER been mentioned and so it obviously isn't a problem
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,467 Senior Member
    Haley isn't the only one who's flip flopped on the flag...so did I. Until I found out the reason it was flown, I was in favor of it. Now I'm resigned to it being removed. And pretty thankful, to tell the truth. The Civil War has been over 150 years or so. Time to get over it.

    The battle flag is gone, it's just a matter of days. It has become a political hot potato, principally because of Dylann Roof. It's certainly not worthy of endangering one's political life to oppose the inevitable and those who do won't last long politically. The Democrats are in favor, the Republicans are in favor, who in power is against it?

    I like to think I know a little about politics.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,105 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    Haley isn't the only one who's flip flopped on the flag...so did I. Until I found out the reason it was flown, I was in favor of it. Now I'm resigned to it being removed. And pretty thankful, to tell the truth. The Civil War has been over 150 years or so. Time to get over it.

    The battle flag is gone, it's just a matter of days. It has become a political hot potato, principally because of Dylann Roof. It's certainly not worthy of endangering one's political life to oppose the inevitable and those who do won't last long politically. The Democrats are in favor, the Republicans are in favor, who in power is against it?

    I like to think I know a little about politics.

    Do you even have a clue as to where the battle flag is being flown? It was taken down from the South Carolina State House roof in 2000 and placed on a Civil War memorial on the State House grounds. What ya gonna do, fly a U.S. flag over a Confederate war memorial? That's about as intelligent as flying the Nazi flag over the U.S. graves at Normandy.

    For anyone interested, here's a good article on the whole thing. It's from the Washington Post, but is pretty much O.K.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/19/why-south-carolinas-confederate-flag-isnt-at-half-mast-after-church-shooting/

    The flag came down from atop the South Carolina State House in July of 2000. In a compromise that didn’t really satisfy anyone, it was moved to a nearby Confederate war memorial.

    “At the ceremony moving the flag off the dome and to the new location on the capitol grounds, pro-flag activists chanted, ‘Off the dome, and in your face,'” according to “The Politics of Race and Citizenship.” “Antiflag protesters, unsatisfied with the compromise, countered, ‘Shame.'”

    The law that moved the flag was quite detailed: The flag could not fly from the capitol dome, but had to appear at a memorial near the dome and could appear in legislators’ offices. Legislators even specified the type of flag, its placement, and the dimensions of its display.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,467 Senior Member
    Of course I "have a clue." It has no place flying on state grounds part of which are being financed by black taxpayers. I don't know of any other state property where the Confederate flag flies; if you do please inform me. SC cannot ignore the position of 1/3 of their citizens. That won't do.

    The flag flew at the capitol dome from 1962 until just recently. Then the law was amended and moved then it was put in a memorial, where unlike any other memorial I can think of it continued to fly. As a symbol for whatever you want it to symbolize, but it was unique. Now it's going to be amended again and moved into a museum where it belongs. By law. Its power as a symbol has passed.

    I don't see how this simple point is difficult to understand. Am I the only person who sees this obvious and logical point?
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    And HL used the 1st to argue their case, so it must include private businesses as well?

    Freedom of speech, freedom of expression, religious freedom....................................
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, as one of the ten amendments that constitute the Bill of Rights.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,531 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Slavery was one aspect, but not the most important one that caused the split. We've been over this ground before. The taxes and tariffs charged at Southern ports by the Federal government, and other taxation issues that were levied ONLY against Southern states and ports was the real straw that broke the camel's back. And the South sending cotton to England to be turned into cloth and shipped back because it was cheaper than sending it to the industrial North and then shipping cloth back South caused the Northern industrialists to squeal like hogs wound up in an electric fence. Crooked economic policies pushed the South over the brink. South Carolina was first to secede because the ports at Charleston and other coastal cities were feeling the full brunt of those crooked policies. It's in the history of the times, but isn't taught anywhere as it isn't 'politically correct' to tell the truth being as it is inconvenient for the narrative of the victors. And the victors write the history books.

    And I'll say this one more time. The Axis powers in WWII did more to force reconstruction in the South by Washington, D.C. than the Federal government had done since 1865. And that's a fact.

    Dude, I'm not refuting the actual reasons for the secession.

    I'm just theorizing why the Dems are doing what they are doing. That includes the RINOs.

    I saw an ABC news special about the 9 people killed and it displayed first and foremost a picture of the kid from social media with him holding a Confederate battle flag and the reporter said, "Is this the new face of American racism?"

    There it was. ABC calling white people murderous racists...welcome to the new revolution.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,531 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Do you even have a clue as to where the battle flag is being flown? It was taken down from the South Carolina State House roof in 2000 and placed on a Civil War memorial on the State House grounds. What ya gonna do, fly a U.S. flag over a Confederate war memorial? That's about as intelligent as flying the Nazi flag over the U.S. graves at Normandy.

    For anyone interested, here's a good article on the whole thing. It's from the Washington Post, but is pretty much O.K.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/19/why-south-carolinas-confederate-flag-isnt-at-half-mast-after-church-shooting/

    The flag came down from atop the South Carolina State House in July of 2000. In a compromise that didn’t really satisfy anyone, it was moved to a nearby Confederate war memorial.

    “At the ceremony moving the flag off the dome and to the new location on the capitol grounds, pro-flag activists chanted, ‘Off the dome, and in your face,'” according to “The Politics of Race and Citizenship.” “Antiflag protesters, unsatisfied with the compromise, countered, ‘Shame.'”

    The law that moved the flag was quite detailed: The flag could not fly from the capitol dome, but had to appear at a memorial near the dome and could appear in legislators’ offices. Legislators even specified the type of flag, its placement, and the dimensions of its display.

    I disagree with the governor's decision. That's a civil war memorial which memorializes fallen Confederate soldiers, too, who died under that flag. Flying it over a memorial is not only historically significant, but ethical as well.

    If there is to be no flag(s) of the Confederate States flying there then there should be no US flags flown their either. Either fly both respective to one another or fly none as neutrality.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,467 Senior Member
    I refuse to let "the kid from social media," Dylann Roof, represent "white people." Roof was a murderous racist. Nuff said.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    That flag in the capital at the center of this controversy didn't have any more to do with making that little creep kill those folks than the Glock he used. It came from hatred in his heart and mind.

    This whole flag fiasco is just a scapegoat and something they can strike out against and if it stays or is moved it won't make one iota of difference influencing whether any deranged person does something like this or not in the future.

    How can people be so stupid to think because he had pics of himself with a Confederate flag the flag made him do it?
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,105 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    Of course I "have a clue." It has no place flying on state grounds part of which are being financed by black taxpayers. I don't know of any other state property where the Confederate flag flies; if you do please inform me. SC cannot ignore the position of 1/3 of their citizens. That won't do.

    Consider yourself informed. Read it or not. One of many such if you care to look.

    http://www.civilwarnews.com/archive/articles/conf_flag_pt_lookout.htm
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,467 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    I disagree with the governor's decision. That's a civil war memorial which memorializes fallen Confederate soldiers, too, who died under that flag. Flying it over a memorial is not only historically significant, but ethical as well.

    If there is to be no flag(s) of the Confederate States flying there then there should be no US flags flown their either. Either fly both respective to one another or fly none as neutrality.

    The American flag is the flag of our nation. The Confederate flag is not. The American flag is the one I and most of you pledged allegiance to each morning. The Confederate flag is not. It is proper to fly the American flag in any context I can think of. I don't think it was flown at the Confederate memorial, but if you do, please let us know.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Damn right Jason, plenty of American Indians who consider the Stars and Stripes a symbol of hatred/racism/genocide/oppression to their peoples in our history.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • HvyMaxHvyMax Senior Member Posts: 1,786 Senior Member
    I'm not far from Point Lookout. The Sons of Confederate Veterans adopt Rt 6 near my house and there is a John Wilkes Booth slept here sign at Rich Hill Farm across Zekiah Swamp.
    Wal Mart where the discriminating white trash shop.
    Paddle faster!!! I hear banjos.
    Reason for editing: correcting my auto correct
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,531 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    The American flag is the flag of our nation. The Confederate flag is not. The American flag is the one I and most of you pledged allegiance to each morning. The Confederate flag is not. It is proper to fly the American flag in any context I can think of. I don't think it was flown at the Confederate memorial, but if you do, please let us know.

    Should the flag of Germany be removed from this set of flags ato the memorial at Normandy?

    DSC_0546-1024x680.jpg

    Hell no it shouldn't.

    Wars happen where they happen.

    Oh look...a joint memorial for American and Japanese soldiers...

    PANews%20BT_P-b1dec5da-a05d-43b4-bcd1-5837c40834ec_I1.jpg

    Honor those who died on the field of battle. It was war. They fought for what they believed in and even the side who "won" can show some damn respect for those dead. You don't have to honor the s who started wars, like Hitler. But a vast majority of his soldiers at the low levels weren't genocide mongers. Just soldiers.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
Sign In or Register to comment.
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Guns & Ammo stories delivered right to your inbox every week.

Advertisement