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Sc governor nikki haley calls for removal of confederate flag from statehouse grounds

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Replies

  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,467 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Consider yourself informed. Read it or not. One of many such if you care to look.

    http://www.civilwarnews.com/archive/articles/conf_flag_pt_lookout.htm

    The Confederate cemetery at Point Lookout is privately funded.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Lookout_State_Park
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,446 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    Should the flag of Germany be removed from this set of flags ato the memorial at Normandy?

    DSC_0546-1024x680.jpg

    Hell no it shouldn't.

    Wars happen where they happen.

    Oh look...a joint memorial for American and Japanese soldiers...

    PANews%20BT_P-b1dec5da-a05d-43b4-bcd1-5837c40834ec_I1.jpg

    Honor those who died on the field of battle. It was war. They fought for what they believed in and even the side who "won" can show some damn respect for those dead. You don't have to honor the s who started wars, like Hitler. But a vast majority of his soldiers at the low levels weren't genocide mongers. Just soldiers.


    You notice they aren't flying a Swastika at Normandy...

    A certain symbol means something to me, the same symbol means something else to another person...whose feelings trump the others?

    I fly a Gadsden Flag under the National Flag fairly regularly...I like the message it sends. Some people find it offensive (hell...some people don't even know what it is)...should I haul it down? I've searched the Bill of Rights extensively...still haven't found "The Right Not To Be Offended" anywhere.....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,467 Senior Member
    How is the Bill of Rights involved in this?

    The photographs are instructive. They're not flying the Nazi flag in the first example and not flying the WW 2 Japanese flag in the second example. That should mean something to you history fans.

    As for the ones who started WW 2, it was the Nazis in Europe and the Japanese who got us involved.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Gator MonroeGator Monroe Banned Posts: 655 Senior Member
    After the Confederate Flag next on deck for removal or change is that Racist Sexist Bigoted Homophobic Colonialist Imperialist American Flag (And they don't mean just adding a few stars)
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,446 Senior Member
    It's not Gene....it was sarcasm...there is no Right Not To Be Offended (obviously)...however, there are a bunch of PC idiots who seem to be those that believe there is....

    The Japanese National flag has not changed...it's the same flag the Japanese carried all through the war...You are thinking of the Imperial Navy Ensign, and the Imperial Army Flag (the ones with the sunburst) that you don't see anymore....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,604 Senior Member
    After the Confederate Flag next on deck for removal or change is that Racist Sexist Bigoted Homophobic Colonialist Imperialist American Flag (And they don't mean just adding a few stars)


    You forgot to put 'dummycraps' in there. Just sayin'
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • Gator MonroeGator Monroe Banned Posts: 655 Senior Member
    coolgunguy wrote: »
    You forgot to put 'dummycraps' in there. Just sayin'

    That would be Racis and make some posters here "Uncomfortable"
  • GunnerK19GunnerK19 Senior Member Posts: 1,088 Senior Member
    There have been over 150 people shot and killed so far this year in Chicago. What flag are they going to blame that on?
    I'm a Conservative. How conservative? Only Alex P. Keaton has me beat.

    Taurus 605 .357, Ruger .45 Vaquero, Colt frontier commemorative .22 SA, Pietta 1860 .44 snubnose
  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,035 Senior Member
    I suppose the roof of "General Lee" will be sanded and painted orange, or covered with an appropriate vinyl top.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,604 Senior Member
    I suppose the roof of "General Lee" will be sanded and painted orange, or covered with an appropriate vinyl top.


    I agree such gestures are nothing more than 'lip service' (so to speak) and I really don't personally have a dog in this hunt...but I think a vinyl top would be cruel and unusual punishment.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    I suppose the roof of "General Lee" will be sanded and painted orange, or covered with an appropriate vinyl top.

    I dunno, but this is spreading to AL and MS as well as other places and now some want the monuments torn down of Confederate heroes and the names of schools changed.

    This will stop hate/hate crimes and racism in its tracks..........what genius, why didn't they thunk of it years ago!

    Now, lets go after them evil guns .....................................

    The REPs may have been smarter than I at first gave them credit for on this. They are caving in because they do not want it ever to be said look you still have a Confederate flag flying on your capital grounds how can you stand there and say you don't support racism and slavery...............that is the mindset and where the momentum is right now.

    You give them an inch and they will take a mile.............stay tuned.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Gator MonroeGator Monroe Banned Posts: 655 Senior Member
    G-d I hope the AWB 2 push does not gain steam prior to the Election
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,539 Senior Member
    I've stayed out of this to this point, but I'd like to share my opinion. It is readily apparent that the Confederate battle flag means different things to different people. In my personal experience, through personal interactions with real people, the only times I have seen that flag displayed was when KKK members or sympathizers were using it. As such, all it has ever represented to me was racial hatred. I was born in 1972, so I didn't live through the 'civil rights movement' era, but my parents and grandparents obviously did, and they saw this racial hatred (including violence) up close and personal.

    Being honest, no matter how many times I hear or read what that flag represents to other people, every time I see it, I remember what it represented to me throughout my childhood and early adulthood. I would like for it to mean something else, but my reaction to it is (at least for now) instinctive, and, for lack of a better term, automatic. I can't turn it off, even though I've read reasonable, plausible explanations for what that flag represents to others and why it should be ok to display on public grounds.

    That being said, the salient point that I choose to allow to govern my actions is that in order to have real freedom, we all have to tolerate things we don't like or agree with. As was said earlier, we don't have a right to not be offended. So, despite my gut reaction when I see the flag displayed, I choose not to allow that reaction to govern how I treat people. I may be wary, but I don't assume personal hatred against me.
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,105 Senior Member
    Listening to the news this morning, it isn't just the flag that is being pushed for removal. Statues, monuments and anything Confederate are the next targets for being removed from statehouse grounds, U.S. capitol property, and other state and federal grounds. Guess they'll have to remove all those monuments and statues off Civil War battlefields managed by the U.S. Park Service on federal property, or at least encase them in concrete into some shapeless unrecognizable form.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • GunnerK19GunnerK19 Senior Member Posts: 1,088 Senior Member
    I'm a Conservative. How conservative? Only Alex P. Keaton has me beat.

    Taurus 605 .357, Ruger .45 Vaquero, Colt frontier commemorative .22 SA, Pietta 1860 .44 snubnose
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    We wore Confederate flags on our gym shorts in a school I attended and were called "Rebels". This was the late 60s after integration and black kids were as proud as we were to be in that school and wear their colors.

    I still can't get over why now after that murder spree? Why not the last several elections? I know about that miscreant and the photo, but there is no way in and of itself the flag he posed with caused his actions or put hate in his heart.

    I think this may very well cause an even greater racial divide than it supposedly will help.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,105 Senior Member
    Liberals are the U.S. version of ISIS and the Taliban. They will attempt to destroy anything that does not fit their belief system and agenda, just like ISIS and the Taliban are doing in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other Mideast countries. And they definitely are not above stirring the racial hatred pot to get their agenda pushed forward.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Liberals are the U.S. version of ISIS and the Taliban. They will attempt to destroy anything that does not fit their belief system and agenda, just like ISIS and the Taliban are doing in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other Mideast countries. And they definitely are not above stirring the racial hatred pot to get their agenda pushed forward.

    True, they are destroying all kinds of historical artifacts/buildings and erasing anything they don't like including people.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    Of course I "have a clue." It has no place flying on state grounds part of which are being financed by black taxpayers. I don't know of any other state property where the Confederate flag flies; if you do please inform me. SC cannot ignore the position of 1/3 of their citizens. That won't do.

    The flag flew at the capitol dome from 1962 until just recently. Then the law was amended and moved then it was put in a memorial, where unlike any other memorial I can think of it continued to fly. As a symbol for whatever you want it to symbolize, but it was unique. Now it's going to be amended again and moved into a museum where it belongs. By law. Its power as a symbol has passed.


    I don't see how this simple point is difficult to understand. Am I the only person who sees this obvious and logical point?

    Until today it flew on AL state capital property. The bonehead Gov ordered it taken down cause "I don't have time to deal with it, I have taxes to raise"
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,467 Senior Member
    Welcome to 2015. The War has been over for 150 years. Time to quit living in the past and look for symbols that unite us rather than the ones that divide us. The leadership is not for "Whites Only."
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    Welcome to 2015. The War has been over for 150 years. Time to quit living in the past and look for symbols that unite us rather than the ones that divide us. The leadership is not for "Whites Only."

    Will this work?

    [IMG][/img]rebel_zpsak0ucfgm.jpg
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,467 Senior Member
    That's pretty childish, Chief. Publishing pictures intentionally aimed at racial disrespect is like using the n word in public.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,105 Senior Member
    Hey, Big Chief, I think Gene wants something more all inclusive.
    Like this one:

    U.S.%20flag_zps6ao0fb8t.jpg
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Hey, Big Chief, I think Gene wants something more all inclusive.
    Like this one:

    U.S.%20flag_zps6ao0fb8t.jpg

    :spittingcoffee::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    That's pretty childish, Chief. Publishing pictures intentionally aimed at racial disrespect is like using the n word in public.

    Yes, I'm sorry, it does disrespect the Stars and Bars. :jester:

    Get real, I am not trying to be disrespectful to any race, only that buffoon in the WH, I do however have immense respect for the office, but not its current occupant. As well as make light of the anti- anything-Confederate frenzy sweeping our country these past few days.

    A decent black man like Col West or the good doctor Ben Carson would get my vote and restore my respect for both the office and the man, if elected.

    I'm also playing the devils advocate to a certain extent on this issue and exercising MY 1st Amendment Right to Free Speech/Expression too, or have they outlawed that too!

    It would be a lot easier just to jump on the bandwagon and say yes I agree take them all down and remove all references or likenesses from monuments and stores, but all that is doing is incensing and infuriating what has been a relatively quite sector and appeasing another who want to blame the recent events on a Confederate flag being flown adjacent to a Civil War monument for causing/influencing the SC murders.

    Isn't just a bit silly all of the sudden these actions should be taken and mommy Govts solution is kiss it and that will make it all better by removing flags from public view at state capitals instead of addressing the real problems? They are kidding themselves if they think this is a solution to racial hatred problems.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,467 Senior Member
    How you ever was promoted to Chief without understanding the 1st Amendment escapes me. I don't know what your tenuous link to the Confederate battle flag is, but it apparently allows you to be offensive. And tennmike's post is a juvenile attempt to divert the strong narrative of this argument with dumbass posts. Which I don't find offensive, just dumbass, which is never offensive, it's pitiful.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    How you ever was promoted to Chief without understanding the 1st Amendment escapes me. I don't know what your tenuous link to the Confederate battle flag is, but it apparently allows you to be offensive. And tennmike's post is a juvenile attempt to divert the strong narrative of this argument with dumbass posts. Which I don't find offensive, just dumbass, which is never offensive, it's pitiful.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

    I think you need to re-read what all it encompasses. Not just Federal (originally) it applies to State and Local levels too.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,105 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    How you ever was promoted to Chief without understanding the 1st Amendment escapes me. I don't know what your tenuous link to the Confederate battle flag is, but it apparently allows you to be offensive. And tennmike's post is a juvenile attempt to divert the strong narrative of this argument with dumbass posts. Which I don't find offensive, just dumbass, which is never offensive, it's pitiful.

    The whole bringing in the Confederate Battle Flag is a gigantic load of prefabricated carefully selected

    TH-LEGACY-IMAGE-ID-779-manure_zpsdfbbf4bf.jpg

    that is being used to deflect from the truth of the matter. To whit, that a 21 year old drug abusing tresspasser got mad because the girl he was pursuing chose a black guy over him. (You knew that little nugget, didn't you?) The battle flag was the soldier's flag. You know what that is, right? It isn't the national flag. The battle flag is not wholly unlike the regimental flags of different army groups. I'd say that the 7th Cavalry flag would be considered pretty hateful to some Americans.

    And since you waded into the 1st Amendment, then you do know that the SCOTUS has ruled that some hate speech is protected, right? I'd give you a link, but you would not only not click the link, but if you did I fear your reading comprehension would twist it worse than a piece of sisal twine into something unrecognizable.

    And my Unicorn Fart National Flag is sarcasm; something you miserably fail to grasp at every opportunity.

    As to your opinion of me, I think this covers it:

    1242225474_attempting_to_give_a_dam.gif
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,531 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Listening to the news this morning, it isn't just the flag that is being pushed for removal. Statues, monuments and anything Confederate are the next targets for being removed from statehouse grounds, U.S. capitol property, and other state and federal grounds. Guess they'll have to remove all those monuments and statues off Civil War battlefields managed by the U.S. Park Service on federal property, or at least encase them in concrete into some shapeless unrecognizable form.

    It's all about "erasing" history. Democrats want open slavery again, it's just not cotton they're picking; it's votes.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
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