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Hoax hits Baltimore Sun , I got it in an emai but............

Big ChiefBig Chief Senior MemberPosts: 32,995 Senior Member
Do you think it is right, partially right or all racist commentary? Worth reading, anyhow. These are not my viewpoints and other gun forums have been duped into thinking it is an authentic article from the Sun.

Anyway, if you get it in an email or see it somewhere on the web it was a HOAX.

- .FROM THE BALTIMORE SUN
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2015 15:16:04 -0400




"The Baltimore Sun is definitely not known as a Conservative newspaper, and this very well written assessment of the situation in USA comes as something of a surprise. This will obviously be called racist, and will upset liberals, but they should really think about the message and this interesting point of view


The Black Dilemma

"For almost 150 years the United States has been conducting an interesting experiment. The subjects of the experiment: black people and working-class whites.

The hypothesis to be tested: Can a people taken from the jungles of Africa and forced into slavery be fully integrated as citizens in a majority white population?

The whites were descendants of Europeans who had created a majestic civilization. The former slaves had been tribal peoples with no written language and virtually no intellectual achievements. Acting on a policy that was not fair to either group, the government released newly freed black people into a white society that saw them as inferiors. America has struggled with racial discord ever since.

Decade after decade the problems persisted but the experimenters never gave up. They insisted that if they could find the right formula the experiment would work, and concocted program after program to get the result they wanted. They created the Freedmans Bureau, passed civil rights laws, tried to build the Great Society, declared War on Poverty, ordered race preferences, built housing projects, and tried midnight basketball.

Their new laws intruded into peoples lives in ways that would have been otherwise unthinkable. They called in National Guard troops to enforce school integration. They outlawed freedom of association. Over the protests of parents, they put white children on buses and sent them to black schools and vice-versa. They tried with money, special programs, relaxed standards, and endless hand wringing to close the achievement gap. To keep white backlash in check they began punishing public and even private statements on race. They hung up Orwellian public banners that commanded whites to Celebrate Diversity! and Say No to Racism. Nothing was off limits if it might salvage the experiment.

Some thought that what W.E.B. DuBois called the Talented Tenth would lead the way for black people. A group of elite, educated blacks would knock down doors of opportunity and show the world what blacks were capable of. There is a Talented Tenth. They are the black Americans who have become entrepreneurs, lawyers, doctors and scientists. But ten percent is not enough. For the experiment to work, the ten percent has to be followed by a critical mass of people who can hold middle-class jobs and promote social stability. That is what is missing.

Through the years, too many black people continue to show an inability to function and prosper in a culture unsuited to them. Detroit is bankrupt, the south side of Chicago is a war zone, and the vast majority of black cities all over America are beset by degeneracy and violence. And blacks never take responsibility for their failures. Instead, they lash out in anger and resentment.

Across the generations and across the country, as we have seen in Detroit, Watts, Newark, Los Angeles, Cincinnati, and now Ferguson, rioting and looting are just one racial incident away. The white elite would tell us that this doesn't mean the experiment has failed. We just have to try harder. We need more money, more time, more understanding, more programs, and more opportunities.

But nothing changes no matter how much money is spent, no matter how many laws are passed, no matter how many black geniuses are portrayed on TV, and no matter who is president. Some argue its a problem of culture, as if culture creates peoples behavior instead of the other way around. Others blame white privilege.

But since 1965, when the elites opened Americas doors to the Third World, immigrants from Asia and India people who are not white, not rich, and not connected have quietly succeeded. While the children of these people are winning spelling bees and getting top scores on the SAT, black youths are committing half the country's violent crime, which includes viciously punching random white people on the street for the thrill of it that has nothing to do with poverty.

The experiment has failed. Not because of white culture, or white privilege, or white racism. The fundamental problem is that American black culture has evolved into an un-fixable and crime ridden mess. They do not want to change their culture or society, and expect others to tolerate their violence and amoral behavior. They have become socially incompatible with other races by their own design, not because of the racism of others - but by their own hatred of non-blacks.

Our leaders don't seem to understand just how tired their white subjects are with this experiment. They don't understand that white people aren't out to get black people; they are just exhausted with them. They are exhausted by the social pathologies, the violence, the endless complaints, and the blind racial solidarity, the bottomless pit of grievances, the excuses, and the reflexive animosity. The elites explain everything with racism, and refuse to believe that white frustration could soon reach the boiling point.

You can't legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government can't give to anybody anything that the government doesn't first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they don't have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation.
You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.



Ian Duncan
The Baltimore Sun, May 30, 2015"

Disclaimer

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/bal-note-to-readers-20150611-story.html


Note to readers

An essay posted on the Internet titled "The Black Dilemma" includes incorrect attribution suggesting it came from The Baltimore Sun. The Sun did not write, publish or have any other association with it.
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!

Replies

  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Well written by someone who's both literate and smart, but wrong.

    Black people are not much different from anyone else. It's cultural, not ethnic or intellect or capability. We've seen endless examples of poor black (and white) people who've risen from poverty and slums and excelled.

    The essay, such as it is, identifies the problems but overlooks the solution: education. That, and a cultural change that will take generations to effect.

    It's true that blacks were released into a white culture without any preparation, but they were also severely discriminated against for a long time afterward, still are today by some people. Same for the immigrant Irish and other poor minorities who settled here -- and in many cases, black "leaders" have contributed to the lack of progress. Look how successful blacks are taunted as being "oreos" or "uncle toms" when in fact they are the saving grace of their people.

    In my recent novel I say this about hatred of cops:

    Some kids are, of course, raised from birth to hate or distrust the cops, an attitude that takes but one generation to bestow yet many to dispel.

    Same goes for racism, both against blacks and from blacks against the whites, whom they regard as their oppressors, when in truth, much of the oppression comes from within, a self hatred that spews out as general hatred of others.

    About this, I don't know what to do except allow time to fix it. No proclamation or law will change it, that I know.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Lazy parasites who expect everyone else to support them are not all black. The dependency mindset usually gets ingrained in the preschool years, and is virtually impossible to change, regardless of ethnic origin. Some people are simply lazy deadbeats, and they raise their children in that corrosive environment. There are extremely rare examples of people who break the mold and become productive members of society, but the odds are stacked against them.
    Jerry
  • Fat BillyFat Billy Senior Member Posts: 1,813 Senior Member
    Well Fare Cadillac? The black family fell apart and resulted in todays situation. MLK tried to keep family's together and get opportunities to help build the success of the family. Having more children by an unwed mothers generated more income and less need or desire to work. Hence the death of the black family and the decline of the black community. Look at the Hispanic situation. There may be a family of 8 living in a two bedroom apartment. They all have jobs and know who their dad is and he is the one that leads the family. There are bad Hispanics no question but the family unit is intact and for the most part their communities prosper by good work ethic and to make their family unit situation better. Many of them drive Suburbans so they can get the whole family to church and dinner on Sundays. Lions kill and eat Antelopes. Antelopes breed quickly and are healthy because the lazy or sick ones are Lion poop. Fair? Don't know but it works for them. The choice is to prosper or be poop. :uhm: :fiddle: :up: Later,

    Disclaimer: Having two parents worked for me.
    Fat Billy

    Recoil is how you know primer ignition is complete.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    I see a lot of younger people in stores at all hours of the day and wonder why they are not at work someplace, same for traffic, who is paying for their living/rides?

    They all sure ain't on the second or third shift.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    I find it disturbing that it is required to put race on many government forms. Race is a social construct. As a social construct, when you start categorizing people into little groups, they tend to get treated differently. When you do that, you affect the opportunities that are available and improve/hinder their successes and it develops and enforces an "us" and "them" mentality.

    The author uses the premise that Asians, blacks, and whites are somehow different. We aren't! There are cultural differences, and some cultural values are toxic while others help the group succeed. That is where the focus needs to be, not race. Race is supposedly something that you are born with. Culture is learned. You can change culture.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Well written by someone who's both literate and smart, but wrong.

    Black people are not much different from anyone else. It's cultural, not ethnic or intellect or capability. We've seen endless examples of poor black (and white) people who've risen from poverty and slums and excelled.

    The essay, such as it is, identifies the problems but overlooks the solution: education. That, and a cultural change that will take generations to effect.

    It's true that blacks were released into a white culture without any preparation, but they were also severely discriminated against for a long time afterward, still are today by some people. Same for the immigrant Irish and other poor minorities who settled here -- and in many cases, black "leaders" have contributed to the lack of progress. Look how successful blacks are taunted as being "oreos" or "uncle toms" when in fact they are the saving grace of their people.

    In my recent novel I say this about hatred of cops:

    Some kids are, of course, raised from birth to hate or distrust the cops, an attitude that takes but one generation to bestow yet many to dispel.

    Same goes for racism, both against blacks and from blacks against the whites, whom they regard as their oppressors, when in truth, much of the oppression comes from within, a self hatred that spews out as general hatred of others.

    About this, I don't know what to do except allow time to fix it. No proclamation or law will change it, that I know.

    Sam. you really need to get out more and visit some of the Black garden spots around the globe. As I've posted previously, I have work all over this
    Planet. Angola,Congo,Liberia, all are basically $hit holes constantly at war with neighbors. During the last war in Liberia solders ate the Livers of the vanquished, ( Google it if you think I'm BS). Name one Black run country that offers any thing close to the standard of living Blacks can achieve
    in the US, Perhaps Bermuda, and that is primarily white. You cant excuse Blacks from societies responsibilities, ( behave and work for a living ) and
    expect them to become part of society. JMO
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,259 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Race is supposedly something that you are born with. Culture is learned. You can change culture.

    This.

    I do not wish to queer on your pitch, just an outsiders un-PC question but;

    Why, after all these years, do some of your citizens still style themselves "African" Americans?

    I just get the impression that most of them would not know African if it fell on them.

    PS.
    centermass and I touch on this slightly sometime ago.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    shush wrote: »
    This.

    I do not wish to queer on your pitch.................

    OK translate that fer us, something is lost in our translation here in the Colonies!
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,708 Senior Member
    Once they are Americans they give up being the oppressed people and any hope of reperations.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    shush wrote: »
    I do not wish to queer on your pitch, just an outsiders un-PC question but;

    Why, after all these years, do some of your citizens still style themselves "African" Americans?
    I do not know. That is one of the most ignorant phrases I have ever heard. I refuse to use that term it is so stupid. The way it is used here, one of your dark skinned Englishmen get labeled "African American". Call a proud Brazilian that, or a Haitian that-- they will look at you like you are an idiot. It shows a complete and utterly clueless world view.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    It cracks me up to see and hear a black British Subject talk in perfect Queens English, so different from what I would expect here.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Look up the history of Liberia sometime. The great social experiment involved relocating freed slaves back to the west coast of Africa to set up a self-governing colony so they could use their knowledge of "civilized" society to uplift the local population. It didn't work. The Americanized blacks became the same sort of oppressors they claimed to have fled when they returned to their "roots". "Power corrupts"!
    Jerry
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,259 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    OK translate that fer us, something is lost in our translation here in the Colonies!

    Step on your toes?
    Jermanator wrote: »
    ...... It shows a complete and utterly clueless world view.


    I remember this;

    CNN's Chris Cuomo as he reported live from Paris, France.

    " Minutes after police stormed both sites where Islamists had barricaded themselves, Cuomo labeled one of the dead French

    terrorists "African-American."


    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-balan/2015/01/09/cnns-cuomo-stumbles-labels-french-islamist-african-

    american
    .

    And this;

    “Hard to say, Lin responded, because it’s been 11 days since two African-American teenagers were killed, electrocuted during

    a police chase, which prompted all of this.”

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/david-lanza/2005/11/11/cnns-carol-lin-and-french-african-americans

    And thinking, oh dear.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    They were Frenchmen. Plain and simple. Africa and America have their own damn problems. We don't need those on top of it.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,259 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    They were.........Black...... Frenchmen. Plain and simple. Africa and America have their own damn problems. We don't need those on top of it.

    Plain but not so simple I think.
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,249 Senior Member
    I have always found it silly to use the term "african-american". It is rather obvious that my family originates from Europe in general, Great Britain more specifically, there is no need for me to introduce myself that way. I am from Kansas, I now live in Tennessee. I have never been to Europe, England, or anywhere that requires the use of a passport. Unless I hit the lotto one of these days, the odds of me ever going to my "ancestral" lands are extremely remote. No need to state the obvious I guess.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    queer somebody's pitch (British & Australian)
    to spoil someone's chances of doing something She queered my pitch by asking for promotion before I did.

    OK, all I wanted to know was what it meant. Not a phrase we use in our conversations over here.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,105 Senior Member
    O.K. I'll throw another head scratcher at your haidbones.
    Fact: There are many white people in Africa that have been there for many generations. They are English, Dutch, German, Belgian, French, and pardon if I left any out. These people born in Africa are citizens of their respective African countries.

    If a white South African emigrates to, and becomes a naturalized citizen of, America, then they can rightly call themselves African-American and be totally correct. And that would blow the minds of a bunch of people.

    Outward physical appearance differences are an adaptation to the climate over many centuries. Melanin, or a lack thereof, is an adaptation that was made to survive the climate.
    Jermanator is right about the culture thing. Culture is learned and can be changed. Putting people in all those little boxes accentuates the differences that don't mean anything, and do nothing but divide. Being stuck in a little box begins to chafe after a bit. I'm mostly Scots-Irish with probably a bit of French and Italian thrown in from the Roman and French conquests, and maybe a bit of Viking. Them Vikings did a little partying down South along the coasts of England, Scotland, France and other places. No box covers that, and checking the box that says "White" is a lie.

    Anyway, like we say down here, American by birth; Southern by the grace of God. I refuse to be a hyphenated Ameircan. Works for me! :tooth: (By the way, Southern is a geographical region, not a country, race, ethnic differentiator. The South invaded all the rest of America a long time ago; we're EVERYWHERE! You have been assimilated; resistance is futile! :roll2:)
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,249 Senior Member
    I saw somewhere, (may have been another forum I used to frequent), someone knew a lady from South Africa. When she filled out paperwork asking her race, she always checked the African-American box as she was a naturalized citizen. Said it was a constant source of amusement for the gal as she was asked repeatedly about it.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    shush wrote: »
    Step on your toes?
    I remember this;

    CNN's Chris Cuomo as he reported live from Paris, France.

    " Minutes after police stormed both sites where Islamists had barricaded themselves, Cuomo labeled one of the dead French

    terrorists "African-American."


    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-balan/2015/01/09/cnns-cuomo-stumbles-labels-french-islamist-african-

    american
    .

    And this;

    “Hard to say, Lin responded, because it’s been 11 days since two African-American teenagers were killed, electrocuted during

    a police chase, which prompted all of this.”

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/david-lanza/2005/11/11/cnns-carol-lin-and-french-african-americans

    And thinking, oh dear.

    Well I have heard them called French N-word.....................................
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,348 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    O.K. I'll throw another head scratcher at your haidbones.
    Fact: There are many white people in Africa that have been there for many generations. They are English, Dutch, German, Belgian, French, and pardon if I left any out. These people born in Africa are citizens of their respective African countries.

    If a white South African emigrates to, and becomes a naturalized citizen of, America, then they can rightly call themselves African-American and be totally correct. And that would blow the minds of a bunch of people.

    Outward physical appearance differences are an adaptation to the climate over many centuries. Melanin, or a lack thereof, is an adaptation that was made to survive the climate.
    Jermanator is right about the culture thing. Culture is learned and can be changed. Putting people in all those little boxes accentuates the differences that don't mean anything, and do nothing but divide. Being stuck in a little box begins to chafe after a bit. I'm mostly Scots-Irish with probably a bit of French and Italian thrown in from the Roman and French conquests, and maybe a bit of Viking. Them Vikings did a little partying down South along the coasts of England, Scotland, France and other places. No box covers that, and checking the box that says "White" is a lie.

    Anyway, like we say down here, American by birth; Southern by the grace of God. I refuse to be a hyphenated Ameircan. Works for me! :tooth: (By the way, Southern is a geographical region, not a country, race, ethnic differentiator. The South invaded all the rest of America a long time ago; we're EVERYWHERE! You have been assimilated; resistance is futile! :roll2:)

    Don't ask for a link, I am too lazy to look it up, but in the not very distant past, a young man received a college scholarship that he qualified for as being "African American" just like you stated. The rest of the story is that he lost the scholarship because his skin was not black. Funny how that works, isn't it?
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 22,984 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Being stuck in a little box begins to chafe after a bit.
    Very true - and on MANY levels.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
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