Glocks vs 1911

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Replies

  • Shoemaker SethShoemaker Seth Member Posts: 136 Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    that new SBR is looking hot and I could use a second one...:devil:

    Glutton.
    Some threads I read for information. Others I read for entertainment value.
  • LMLarsenLMLarsen Senior Member Posts: 8,337 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    You really thought we were going to leave a theme like Glock vs. 1911 alone? We already dismissed the original rant and are off on tangents that are more entertaining... Glock vs. 1911, steel vs. plastic, high cap vs. single stack has been done to death... :hand:

    Keep up with the program and get in line with the rest of the vultures :tooth:

    Yeah, let's start a discussion about living in Florida vs. living in the northeast!:troll:
    “A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”

    NRA Endowment Member
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 6,945 Senior Member
    KENFU1911 wrote: »
    .... .......Ummmmmmmm because the 1911 is a Light Sabre..............an elegent weapon from a more civilized age.....

    I'm with you in principle my brother, but how the hell do you figure that 1911 through 1986 qualifies as "a more civilized age"?????
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,903 Senior Member
    We need to do a S&W .38 vs a .45 1911.
    I've been to the range and had to almost take cover when the 1911 shooter let loose.
    Then us .38 revolver shooters would take high scores for the week.
    Oh well, if you can shoot you can shoot, and if you can't it don't matter what you got.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • .223sniper.223sniper New Member Posts: 23 New Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Please explain what kind of jam made you strip the gun down to the frame. I have been shooting 1911s for decades and have 10's of thousands of rounds under my belt and I have never had to strip a 1911 to the frame to clear a jam.
    Type 3 malfunction using denel rounds. When the live round went in something hit the primer and the fresh round made an odd sound then went off and the round got stuck in the barrel. The action wouldn't move and it took allot of working to get it open and found shrapnel everywhere even in the bottom of the mag. I've yet to hear it happen to any one else but that's my personal experience with the gun. I got new parts for it and had it looked over by 2 other gun smiths but to this day it still has problems ejecting.
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,952 Senior Member
    .223sniper wrote: »
    Type 3 malfunction using denel rounds. When the live round went in something hit the primer and the fresh round made an odd sound then went off and the round got stuck in the barrel. The action wouldn't move and it took allot of working to get it open and found shrapnel everywhere even in the bottom of the mag. I've yet to hear it happen to any one else but that's my personal experience with the gun. I got new parts for it and had it looked over by 2 other gun smiths but to this day it still has problems ejecting.

    ???? And you still have it? Give it a decent burial and go get one that works. I wouldn't even KEEP something that is unreliable.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,051 Senior Member
    .223sniper wrote: »
    Type 3 malfunction using denel rounds. When the live round went in something hit the primer and the fresh round made an odd sound then went off and the round got stuck in the barrel. The action wouldn't move and it took allot of working to get it open and found shrapnel everywhere even in the bottom of the mag. I've yet to hear it happen to any one else but that's my personal experience with the gun. I got new parts for it and had it looked over by 2 other gun smiths but to this day it still has problems ejecting.

    By Type 3 do you mean a double-feed? If so, that is an issue generally caused by a faulty extractor, one with either no hook or not enough tension. The thing with a 1911 is that it's not like a Glock, Sig, or XD: you need a someone who knows how the parts fit, interact, and can actually troubleshoot a problem, not a glorified parts changer. The fact that you still have problems ejecting leads me to believe your extractor is still giving issues, and what you really have is an extraction problem.

    Or your Type 3 malfunction could be caused by the empty case being dragged through the magazine feed lips on an empty magazine. Again, this is caused by insufficient extractor tension, this time coupled with magazine feed lips that are too wide, like maybe blown open from a premature firing? This one seems hardest to clear. Again, fix the extractor, and you will need to either adjust the feed lips on the magazine, or just trash the bloody thing.

    As for the live round going off: what exactly was the cause of that? Was there a burr on the breechface that impacted the primer? Maybe you had a high primer that was slam-fired. A chunk of grit or maybe a broken piece of ejector or extractor could have set off the round. These are questions that should have been answered before the pistol was put back together, else you may get the same results in the future.

    You might also want to get a gunsmith who really knows 1911's to work on it. If two have looked at it and it's still running poorly, that suggests they don't know 1911's as well as you think they do. I've read of competition shooters who have had rounds detonate, blowing out the barrel and magazine, who have had their pistols salvaged if the frame is still good. No reason that can't be the case here.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • avmechavmech Senior Member Posts: 858 Senior Member
    LMLarsen wrote: »
    Yeah, let's start a discussion about living in Florida vs. living in the northeast!:troll:

    :spittingcoffee::rotflmao:

    I get it......................
    NRA Benefactor Member
  • bruchibruchi Senior Member Posts: 2,582 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    NP I just need a current inventory of YOUR stash. Hey, JUST in case you croak first that new SBR is looking hot and I could use a second one...:devil:

    My brother got dibs on that but fair is fair, he is not into the Pythons, Gold Cups and so on so there yo go...
    If this post is non welcomed, I can always give you a recipe for making "tostones".
  • SlanteyedshootistSlanteyedshootist Senior Member Posts: 3,947 Senior Member
    I have NEVER heard of a malfunction like that one and from my perspective what happened to you is the equivalent of having an elephant fall on your head while walking the streets of New York City. To make it even more unlikely it happened with ammunition that is not even imported into the US anymore (PMP).

    I had an elephant fall on me once. By the second date I knew not to get between her and the buffet table.:yikes:
    The answer to 1984 is 1776
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    RE .223sniper

    Pure hogwash, plain & simple.

    A maladjusted extractor that and nothing more.....
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • CoggesCogges New Member Posts: 28 New Member
    Why not just cut through the krep and get a HiPower?
    NRA Life Member....Proud Vet
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,263 Senior Member
    I'd rather shoot a Glock than a 1911. Hang it up on the 100-yard target board, and let me find some AP ammo for my .30-06!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • TSchubTSchub Senior Member Posts: 780 Senior Member
    :deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::roll::blah::blah::blah:


    "imoit:
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    I'm with you in principle my brother, but how the hell do you figure that 1911 through 1986 qualifies as "a more civilized age"?????


    1914 - 1949 was a more civilized age........
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • Zapp BraniganZapp Branigan Member Posts: 108 Member
    .223sniper wrote: »
    That funny because i just read an article on the earlier models and they had some of the worst problems(jams, misfires, breaking firing pins, jamming out of the box, etc)and from personal experience it is hard to jam the new ones but when they jam you need to strip em down to their frame to fix.

    I've been a fan of the 1911 all my life, owned 4, and since 1970 I've read everything I could get my hands on about it.
    I have never read anything about "early models" of the 1911 being prone to the problems you describe.
    What article was this you read?
    Also what kind of jam are you talking about that requires the pistol to be stripped "down to the frame"?
    Anyway to answer the OP, Glocks are great, I'm just a bit old fasioned and prefer a pistol that's not made out of plastic and has a 1911 style safety instead of that two stage trigger dingus of the Glock.

    FWIW here's a video of someone trying to make different guns jam by limp-wristing, note the Glock at the end of the video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsewsolPyBU

    Here's another with two different Glocks:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh9JhCyFFxA
  • bowserbbowserb Member Posts: 277 Member
    Hey guys. I'm new to this forum, but I'm glad I found it, as none of the other forums I read have ever had a Glock vs 1911 thread.:zzzz: Anyway, my answer to the question is neither. Last week I walked into the gun shop with a 1911 in mind. Trading two 9mm's for a .45 was my goal, and a 1911--mostly for tradition's sake--was my first choice. Indeed, I was thinking a Colt at that. Then as I handled a couple of 1911's, I was reminded of a couple of things. The "real" 1911 is pretty long, has lots of levers and things, and it holds 8+1 rounds. I also looked at a Glock 21--the Ford F-250 of handguns.

    So there I was, fighting tradition over practicality, and I spotted a Springfield XDm-45/4.5". Not as pretty as the 1911, but much nicer to look at than the Glock. Grip safety, 13+1, very smooth action, 3 backstraps, easy disassembly, very visible and tactile chambered round indicator, cocked striker indicator, and the 4.5" barrel was just long enough. One of the guns I was trading was an XD9-subcompact, and it had been a very nice, reliable gun for about six years, so I knew this American/Croatian product was good. So, I left tradition on the table again and walked out with my new concealed carry .45 with 14 available rounds. I'd still like to have a 1911, but I'm just not in a position to be a collector. I still have a Glock 19...but that's my wife's gun. I think this forum looks really good. I'll be reading on now.
    "We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history." - Ayn Rand
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,465 Senior Member
    bowserb wrote: »
    So there I was, fighting tradition over practicality, and I spotted a Springfield XDm-45/4.5". Not as pretty as the 1911, but much nicer to look at than the Glock.

    I faced that same decision, and chose practicality 3 times. Then I bought a Springfield Loaded, and I was hooked from there. I've wished ever since that I had started with a 1911, not just for the sake of tradition, but because of the way a 1911 functions, feels, and shoots. I'll eventually have another polymer .45acp sidearm for CC, but I am absolutely confident in the Kimber that I carry now, and that's what matters.
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • gunrunner428gunrunner428 Senior Member Posts: 1,018 Senior Member
    bowserb wrote: »
    Hey guys. I'm new to this forum, but I'm glad I found it...

    Welcome, glad to see new faces. Well, read new screen names anyways.
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 1,958 Senior Member
    It's a testament to JMB's design that a thread like this one even exists 100 years later!

    I wonder if they had discussions like this in 1936 comparing the Colt Patterson model 1836 to the model 1911???????

    Pick either one (Glock or 1911) but if the user fails neither firearm will get up by itself and defend you.

    :angel2:
    Beware of false knowledge -- it is often more dangerous than ignorance.
  • bowserbbowserb Member Posts: 277 Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Welcome! Sounds like you did the right thing. Researched your choices and then ultimately went with a high quality firearm that met your personal criteria! That's they way it should be done. Congrats!
    I am very happy with the XDm-45. Been to the range twice. 100rds WWB the first time, 200rds WWB today. I am shooting better with this .45 than I ever did with the Glock 19--and I really like that Glock. The range boss watched me today--it was a quiet morning--as I shot the first three magazines of 13rds each. The pressure of being watched was good for me. A few minutes later he asked how I liked the XDm45, as he shot an XD45 and a Glock 23. I remarked that it was doing really well considering the limitations of the shooter and that I needed to talk with someone about some professional instruction, as I had only had one 45 minute training session several years ago. He responded with, "With that kind of groupings, you should save the cost of lessons and just buy ammo." I take that as more a comment on the gun than me. That heavy XDm really provides a stable platform for that big bullet, I believe.

    I'm also happy I found Guns and Ammo. I haven't read the mag since I was in elementary school in the 1950's...or maybe it was junior high. I had completely forgotten it existed (yeah, I've forgotten a lot of other stuff too, but not my wife's birthday or our anniversary!) Naturally, I signed up for a two year subscription as well as a year of the companion handgun mag.

    One day, I'll still have to get a 1911 just for tradition. And I guess it will have to be a Colt. I mean you can't have half a tradition, can you?
    "We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history." - Ayn Rand
  • ADRidgeADRidge Member Posts: 173 Member
    Buford wrote: »
    I don't know about that. Never heard about jams in Combat and the 1911 has been to hell and back.

    Buford, as much as I respect you.... gotta disagree only because the folks with jammed 1911's never lived to tell about it.
    In space no one can hear you scream... but if you put a helicopter up there, some jerk would complain about the noise!
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Well, since one man missions are rare, if a 1911 jammed, I am sure ones fellow soldiers could take up the slack, so how would it not be known ?

    I doubt any 1911 would jam with Military ball ammo, only if an extractor failed would you have a problem.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    I think Drew was referring to the fact that in combat, sidearms are generally a last ditch weapon. If your "last ditch weapon" jams, you are probably in deep trouble.
  • DeanCDeanC Member Posts: 156 Member
    In proper hands, the Glock serves just as well as the 1911 - at conversational distances. And such distances are the rule in defensive combat. The Guru
    Thus endeth the lesson
  • bowserbbowserb Member Posts: 277 Member
    Eli wrote: »
    I think Drew was referring to the fact that in combat, sidearms are generally a last ditch weapon. If your "last ditch weapon" jams, you are probably in deep trouble.
    In order of preference in combat, I think it goes like this (3. and 4. may be reversed):
    1. Nuke 'em from orbit
    2. Carpet bombing from B-52s
    3. Low level attack aircraft
    4. Artillery
    5. Mortars, grenade launchers
    6. Rifles
    7. Then pistols, bayonets, hunting knives
    Of course, in the infantry, it is primarily the officers who have sidearms. So by the time that 2nd Luie needs to draw his pistol from that really nice leather holster, there is a bleepload of dead and wounded infantry out in front of him, so the best he can hope for is to take out one or two before they take him out. If the weapon jams or does not fire, he has even lost that hope. Others with pistols as best I can recall from over forty years ago, are tank drivers and chopper pilots, both of which must be in deep bleep, if they're calling on a sidearm.

    In short, the pistol in combat is a little like a life jacket on a submarine. It may give you some comfort to have it, but you're probably doing to die if circumstances call for its use.
    "We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history." - Ayn Rand
  • bowserbbowserb Member Posts: 277 Member
    DeanC wrote: »
    In proper hands, the Glock serves just as well as the 1911 - at conversational distances. And such distances are the rule in defensive combat. The Guru
    Thus endeth the lesson
    The Glock, or any striker fired handgun for that matter, can never serve in place of the 1911, or even the Beretta for that matter, because you can't pull the trigger twice on the same round in the chamber--a requirement of military handguns. Otherwise, the Glock seems like an excellent combat handgun. Clean, simple, reliable, relatively inexpensive, and easy to field strip in about 3 seconds. And once you adapt to the extreme grip angle, it's also very accurate. Plus in .45 cal, the Glock 21 itself is a great club--like a brick with a handle.

    Still, I'd rather stand back and watch F/A-18's from a distance.
    "We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history." - Ayn Rand
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