Hunting with Mil-Surp

bullsi1911bullsi1911 ModeratorPosts: 9,854 Senior Member
Opening day of Hunting season is this Saturday. I am planning on taking my Ishapore Enfield in .308 with me to the blind. I have been threatening to get a deer with a Military Surplus rifle for a long time, and this time... I'm doing it. Especially after my range trip with it where I was able to pop clays with it at 100 yards, no problem.

'Course, I will have a backup scoped .308 just in case the deer of a lifetime shows up when there is poor light, or over 100 yards away.

Anyone else hunting with surplus this year?
To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
-Mikhail Kalashnikov
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Replies

  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,965 Senior Member
    I'm always threatning to take my Garand hog hunting. It would work fine, but I'm always wanting to try out a new scope or sporting rifle. But one of these days the Garand is getting the nod. It would be fantastic. It's hunting accurate out to a couple hundred yards with the Mil Spec Sights and with 8 rounds I could wipe out a whole colony of porkers.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • timctimc Senior Member Posts: 6,684 Senior Member
    I do every year at least one weekend. I think it is a lot of fun to hunt with an old warhorse. Those old guns will still get the job done!


    1943 Mosin Nagant 91/30 head shot at 100 yards.
    Jan2007pigpic.jpg?t=1243227822

    1956 M1 Garand through the heart 100 yards
    garandpigjan08.jpg?t=1318257676
    timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
    AKA: Former Founding Member
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,965 Senior Member
    timc wrote: »
    I do every year at least one weekend. I think it is a lot of fun to hunt with an old warhorse. Those old guns will still get the job done!


    1943 Mosin Nagant 91/30 head shot at 100 yards.
    Jan2007pigpic.jpg?t=1243227822



    1956 M1 Garand through the heart 100 yards
    garandpigjan08.jpg?t=1318257676





    Ahh Tim you are a man after my own heart! That is simply beautiful. A MN and a Garand. Great hog guns indeed.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,596 Senior Member
    Last year....

    03 Springfield, 1933 correct. 165gr Sierra Gameking at about 70 yards. Bang-flop through the top of the hydraulics.

    Warhorsedoe.jpg

    This year its all longrifle, all the time
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,854 Senior Member
    Last year....

    03 Springfield, 1933 correct. 165gr Sierra Gameking at about 70 yards. Bang-flop through the top of the hydraulics.

    Nice!

    Tim- I forgot you do the same thing. If I had had time to get the Garand to the range with a suitable hunting load, I DEFINITELY would have it in the rotation this year.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • timctimc Senior Member Posts: 6,684 Senior Member
    Yep, gonna see if I can pop one with my K98 sniper this year
    timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
    AKA: Former Founding Member
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 19,136 Senior Member
    I've killed one with my K31, and gut shot (and lost) one with my Garand.

    Bullsi, the easiest hunting ammo for the Garand is to pull the FMJ from some of the Greek surplus ammo and then seat a Rem Core Lokt on top of the same powder charge.
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,965 Senior Member
    That's something else i will be doing is one of my Yugo's is going to be in sporter form this year. I think I've mentioned it. But it's at the gun smith's shop now. He's doing the bolt bending, drilling and tapping, installing a Beuler safety and a Timney sporter trigger, and I already put it in a Boyd's laminate stock. But it will still be an 8x57 for another year or so until I rebarrel it to 6mm Remington. So it will be like hunting with a mil-surp. I have about 120 rounds of Wolf Premium 196 grain bullets for it. I won't even have to hand load for it. All I'll need to do is stick a new 4-12x40 Redfield revolution on it. I think I'll use a Picatiny style rail on it with Weaver rings.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    Opening day of Hunting season is this Saturday. I am planning on taking my Ishapore Enfield in .308 with me to the blind. I have been threatening to get a deer with a Military Surplus rifle for a long time, and this time... I'm doing it. Especially after my range trip with it where I was able to pop clays with it at 100 yards, no problem.

    'Course, I will have a backup scoped .308 just in case the deer of a lifetime shows up when there is poor light, or over 100 yards away.

    Anyone else hunting with surplus this year?

    I can vouch fer that Indian .308 Enfield being capable of busting orange clays @100 yards with bullsi behind the trigger. :guns:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • waipapa13waipapa13 Senior Member Posts: 719 Senior Member
    I've always wanted to tip over a few goats with my M1 Carbine or my Nagant, but so far have shot all mine with .22's or a 30/30
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,965 Senior Member
    Yep Varmintmist that is a beautiful Springfield and it is another great hunter-warhorse. I don't have an 03, but I have an 03-A3. I just recently redid the stock on it and I need to take some pics of it. It really looks good now. I love all these old rifles, Mausers, MNs, Garands, Enfields, Springfields, all of em. They can still get the job done.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,854 Senior Member
    Two main plans this year- One with a MilSurp, one with a Handgun.

    We had a cold front come through last night, and it actually feels like hunting weather! It won't be 90 degrees while all camo'ed up and in the woods!

    Paul- I may have to try that Recipe since I am unsure which way to go on commercial ammo.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,854 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    I can vouch fer that Indian .308 Enfield being capable of busting orange clays @100 yards with bullsi behind the trigger. :guns:

    And thank you for fixing the Firing pin problem at the range. I would be taking the Mosin if I could not trust this gun.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,965 Senior Member
    Bullsi, somebody makes some ammo for Garands, and you can buy it from Midway. It has the proper powder and load, but i think it has soft point Spitzer bullets in it. I can't remember who makes it right now but it's reasonably new.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • tjsvet50tjsvet50 Member Posts: 147 Member
    I plan on using my M-38 Swede with 120 grain Nosler BT's. It keeps 1/2 in. groups at 100 yards, with hardly much felt recoil.
    6.5 is a fantastic round.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,854 Senior Member
    Spent most of last weekend out with the Ishapore SMLE. Did not shoot an animal... no wait- Did not shoot a DEER. Shot a squirrel off the feeder leg.

    But it was not that we did not see anything. Saw a good amount of deer, but none I wanted to take. It was either a yearling spike (let em go till next year), a doe with a baby just out of spots, or a 2 year old with an OK rack. All of those we want to keep around.

    There was one 2 year old 3 point (twisted, stunted spike on one side, and a long, tall crabclaw on the other) that I was lining up the shot on when the feeder went off. That animal nearly came out of his skin, and promptly went plaid in his quest to get to the next county.

    I was still in the woods with a rifle. A Good weekend hunting

    photo-754293.JPG
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • timctimc Senior Member Posts: 6,684 Senior Member
    Fun in the woods does not always mean taking home meat, it is great just to be there!

    I'm heading back out this weekend and the winner of the Milsurp hunting contest this year is the K98. I decided to take the old Nazi warhorse next trip so it will be looking to take out some swine this weekend!
    timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
    AKA: Former Founding Member
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    Spent most of last weekend out with the Ishapore SMLE. Did not shoot an animal... no wait- Did not shoot a DEER. Shot a squirrel off the feeder leg.

    But it was not that we did not see anything. Saw a good amount of deer, but none I wanted to take. It was either a yearling spike (let em go till next year), a doe with a baby just out of spots, or a 2 year old with an OK rack. All of those we want to keep around.

    There was one 2 year old 3 point (twisted, stunted spike on one side, and a long, tall crabclaw on the other) that I was lining up the shot on when the feeder went off. That animal nearly came out of his skin, and promptly went plaid in his quest to get to the next county.

    I was still in the woods with a rifle. A Good weekend hunting

    photo-754293.JPG

    Well, anything in that open area in front of your muzzle would be dead meat if you decided to shoot it with that Enfield .308
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,854 Senior Member
    It is making the trip out this weekend as well. My plan is to get a Milsurp deer, and a handgun deer this year.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,965 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Well, anything in that open area in front of your muzzle would be dead meat if you decided to shoot it with that Enfield .308

    Oh no, not if it's a martian Zombie. Those take a Lazzaroni to kill em properly!
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,825 Senior Member
    I will be pig hunting with my Chicom SKS... does that count?

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,854 Senior Member
    Yes it does!
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 19,136 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »

    Paul- I may have to try that Recipe since I am unsure which way to go on commercial ammo.
    Works best with a collet puller IME. As long as you don't jerk the handle, there's no risk of spilling, or losing any of the powder.
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    Spent most of last weekend out with the Ishapore SMLE. Did not shoot an animal... no wait- Did not shoot a DEER. Shot a squirrel off the feeder leg.

    But it was not that we did not see anything. Saw a good amount of deer, but none I wanted to take. It was either a yearling spike (let em go till next year), a doe with a baby just out of spots, or a 2 year old with an OK rack. All of those we want to keep around.

    There was one 2 year old 3 point (twisted, stunted spike on one side, and a long, tall crabclaw on the other) that I was lining up the shot on when the feeder went off. That animal nearly came out of his skin, and promptly went plaid in his quest to get to the next county.

    I was still in the woods with a rifle. A Good weekend hunting

    photo-754293.JPG


    YES!!! a .303 #1 Mark III SMLE :beer:
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,854 Senior Member
    YES!!! a .303 #1 Mark III SMLE :beer:

    Close. Ishapore SMLE in .308
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,965 Senior Member
    I learned an old trick from an Old Guy once about military ammo. Unless it's AP, for deer hunting, most military ammo will work fine if you can get it to expand because it does have a lead core. The best way to insure fast expansion is to cut an eX as even as you can across the tip. It doesn't have to be real big, just where you cut into the metal jacket. This should insure expansion.

    And before anyone says that you will sacrifice accuracy doing this, I have tried it and it made zero difference on paper at 100 yards. Actually it has been proven time and time again that the tip of a bullet can be quite defective and won't affect accuracy, but the base is a different story.

    I have done this with U.S. Lake City M1 ammo and although I haven't ever killed anything with it, my friends used to use it in their Grandfather's Model 70 pre war 30-06 and they killed deer coming and going with that rifle and mil surp ammo.

    You can use a dremmel with a thin, flat cutter wheel on it. Just drill a deep half inch hole in a short piece of 2x4 clamped to a work table and stick the butt of the cartridge in it to hold it while you grind.

    I wouldn't take these to a bench rest meet, but for shooting within 200 yards, which is probably as far as most would shoot a mil surp at game, it is way accurate enough. I have some 8x57 ammo I'm going to do that with so I can hunt with my latest Yugo build which will still have the mil surp barrel in place for a couple of years until I decide to rebarrel it. I know this sounds like Bubbaville but it actually works very well for deer and hogs. I would probably not take it elk hunting.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,854 Senior Member
    Well, a shootable cull buck came in when the light was still too poor to see the SMLE sights. But I still wanted this guy in my freezer and out of the gene pool. So I pulled up the old, trusty NEF .308 with the Leupold VX-II, and shot him at the base of the skull.

    photo-704342.JPG

    He was about a 3.5 year old with a small unsymmetrical rack with some gnarly mass that you can't see in this pic. So he is down with the tenderloins and backstrap in the fridge, and the rest being turned into Jerky and stew meat.

    Back out in a few hours, still trying to get one with the SMLE
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    I learned an old trick from an Old Guy once about military ammo. Unless it's AP, for deer hunting, most military ammo will work fine if you can get it to expand because it does have a lead core. The best way to insure fast expansion is to cut an eX as even as you can across the tip. It doesn't have to be real big, just where you cut into the metal jacket. This should insure expansion.

    Snake, the modification you're describing was done on .303 Brit rounds at the Dumdum arsenal in India back in the early years of the 20th. Century. The result was a bunch of blown-up Enfields when the lead core squirted out of the jacket, leaving it stuck in the bore. When the jacket is cut on a FMJ bullet, the open base where the lead core was swaged into the jacket and the damaged tip creates an open-ended tube that's inviting disaster, no matter how often you get lucky enough not to leave a jacket lodged in the barrel. Regular softpoint bullets have a closed-end jacket and the lead core is swaged into the front, creating a tight gas seal with the jacket material. Do a web search on "Dum-Dum bullets" and see what I mean. Like this one:

    http://www.answers.com/topic/dumdum

    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,965 Senior Member
    Yes Teach I just read the article. But those original dum dums were made on bullets that the jacketing didn't extend to the rear of the bullet like it does now. The jacket of a modern bullet extends around the base of the bullet where as the Mark II Dum Dum did not. So when the pressure of the gases pushes on the base of the bullet it pushes the entire bullet out the barrel.

    However I will say that this is a Bubba cure for a problem where there is a better remedy available, that being to just get the correct bullets in the first place and use the Mil Surp bullets for the range.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,965 Senior Member
    If you don't handload, the American Eagle M1 Garand ammo is great. Also if you do handload, about 48-49 grains of H4895 or IMR 4895 (No they are not identical powders but they are close enough not to be dangerous) under a Sierra 150 Grain Pro Hunter or a 150 Gr. Nosler Ballisitic Tip with a CCI Standard LRP or I use Winchester LRP, and they both work well in a Garand with this recipe. Just don't use a slower powder than this in a Garand unless you don't mind a jam-a-matic with a bent operating rod. Edited to Add: Unless you have modified the gas system in your Garand.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
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