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Little kid shoots himself with gramps' gun -- excellent writeup on this sad event

samzheresamzhere BannedPosts: 10,923 Senior Member
A 3yr old Houston boy shot himself in the face with his grandfather's handgun. Unknown at this time the kid's condition.

This sort of terrible tragedy occurs far too often and people need to learn responsibility about guns where there are children present. Of course we know this very well -- unfortunately it's the "semi-gun" people who don't take firearms seriously, as we do. We know their power and inherent danger to very young kids and understand what is needed to both protect and educate kids on this. Sadly, lots of idiots have guns lying around here and there and don't think that kids will find them or try to play with them. Very young kids really do think the gun is like on TV cartoons and have no idea about the reality. I blame the grandfather for this event.

The story here is well written, not anti-gun at all, and has good quotes from firearm experts that stress keeping guns away from little kids and also teaching them about guns.

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/3-year-old-shoots-self-with-grandfather-s-gun-in-6367523.php

Replies

  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    We need to be particularly cautious around kids who aren't able to grasp the danger involved- - - -too young, or otherwise unlikely to respond to our warnings. My son's stepdaughter is a Down's Syndrome child, 16 years old with a mental capacity of about 6, and little if any impulse control. When she comes to visit, all the SD guns get locked up out of sight- - -out of mind. "Normal" kids can be taught all the conventional precautions, but some just don't, or can't respond appropriately.
    Jerry
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    We need to be particularly cautious around kids who aren't able to grasp the danger involved- - - -too young, or otherwise unlikely to respond to our warnings. My son's stepdaughter is a Down's Syndrome child, 16 years old with a mental capacity of about 6, and little if any impulse control. When she comes to visit, all the SD guns get locked up out of sight- - -out of mind. "Normal" kids can be taught all the conventional precautions, but some just don't, or can't respond appropriately.
    Jerry

    So very sad but it's the adults who are responsible. Latest is that the boy died. Now they're likely to seek charges against the grandfather. I know that this wouldn't do any good for the case at hand but it may serve as a publicized example to others.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Teach is correct, with youngsters that have special needs, if for let's say, your sidearm is holstered and on your person, you may have to be extra cautious around those with poor impulse control.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    According to recent accounts, the grandparents left a loaded gun on the nightstand next to where they put the kid down for a nap.

    The news tonight was very evenly treated. The sheriff said that people need to lock their guns away from kids, but others said that it's not possible to type in a code or remember a combination under a home invasion, so the news said that the issue is a difficult balance. Which is true.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,636 Senior Member
    You need a gun handy when there is a kid in the house? Only one answer- it need to be on your belt. Leaving it just lying next to the bed is irresponsible.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    A 3yr old Houston boy shot himself in the face with his grandfather's handgun. Unknown at this time the kid's condition.

    This sort of terrible tragedy occurs far too often and people need to learn responsibility about guns where there are children present. Of course we know this very well -- unfortunately it's the "semi-gun" people who don't take firearms seriously, as we do. We know their power and inherent danger to very young kids and understand what is needed to both protect and educate kids on this. Sadly, lots of idiots have guns lying around here and there and don't think that kids will find them or try to play with them. Very young kids really do think the gun is like on TV cartoons and have no idea about the reality. I blame the grandfather for this event.

    The story here is well written, not anti-gun at all, and has good quotes from firearm experts that stress keeping guns away from little kids and also teaching them about guns.

    http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/3-year-old-shoots-self-with-grandfather-s-gun-in-6367523.php

    Thanks for posting Sam, this hit me right between the eyes. I've got two small grand kids here in the house for an, AS YET, undetermined period of time, and after I read this and what you and Teach and all said, I'm locking them up for now. I don't have any of those pesky gun locks, but I may get me one that I can get off fast, but the boys won't be able. I don't know how I'm going to do that, but I'll come up with something. But while those kids are in the house, I'm going to get them put up out of sight.

    This is a great opportunity. Anybody have any good suggestions?
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Put a couple of shaker pegs above a bedroom closet door, on the inside. It's way out of reach of a toddler, and out of sight unless someone goes inside the closet and looks up. Good place to hang a SD shotgun, or a couple of handguns.
    Jerry
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,692 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    You need a gun handy when there is a kid in the house? Only one answer- it need to be on your belt. Leaving it just lying next to the bed is irresponsible.
    Agreed.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,635 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    You need a gun handy when there is a kid in the house? Only one answer- it need to be on your belt. Leaving it just lying next to the bed is irresponsible.
    X2
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Not having guns is NOT the answer, what is the answer ? securing guns not in a holster, in a manner that prevents unauthorized access to said firearms.

    Even adults can do something improper, my dad had access to my safe, he took my S&W 645, loaded it, chambered a round, fired a round, a LE only 230 gn HP +P+ , the bullet went through a closet door, old style hardwood, all my dad's suits,, another lathe and plaster wall, missed all my suits, lodged halfway through another lathe and plaster wall.

    Lucky for me, nobody either heard the shot, reported the shot, or it was never looked into..... I could have had much trouble, dad was an old hand with firearms too......lots of training.
    Yet he did something unfathomable for him !!

    After that, my safe was always locked, New combination........
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    You need a gun handy when there is a kid in the house? Only one answer- it need to be on your belt. Leaving it just lying next to the bed is irresponsible.

    Leaving a gun lying around is of course stupid if there are small kids. On the belt isn't however the answer all the time. You can't carry all your guns on your person or you'll look like a mall ninja, ha ha. And in the shower or whatever?

    Unless someone lives in an area subject to constant thug breaking in and riot, that sort of ghetto thing, I'm guessing that it's pretty okay to just put the gun into a lockbox for while the kiddos are around. If the kids live there however, then other measures are at hand, such a a very high reach storage area.

    As was said in the writeup, it's a delicate problem, needing a gun at hand and having kids too. When my kids were young I simply kept the guns locked up but loaded. We didn't need to fend off more than 20 or 30 home invasions a year, so it was acceptable.

    Seriously, that grandfather might not be criminally charged but he needs to be given the riot act major, and lectured and shamed for hours. Stupid and the poor little kid paid for it.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    We didn't buy our first firearm until our son was grown and out on his own. So naturally, we never inquired about the firearm status of any home he visited. And no parent who sent a child in our home asked us. Later we learned that several of the families in our circle were firearm owners. Seems odd that none of them asked us.

    On second thought...It never occurred to me to ask what my Dad did with his guns when our son was there. I grew up with loaded guns scattered all over the house...but my son didn't. So I know our son wouldn't have known how to handle, or not handle one. And yet...it was so far off my radar, never even thought to ask.

    When I was a little older, like 7 or so, Dad took me shooting and all that sort of stuff, and he taught me very well about firearm safety. I was old enough to realize that real guns weren't cap guns and so on, and I was maybe 9 when I was given my own Mossberg .22 carbine (which I still have).

    In the bedside table on his side, Dad had his 1911, cocked and locked. On Mom's side, she had a .38 S&W snubbie. I knew this and also knew hands off. But I also knew not to ever go into my parents' bedroom anyway, unless I was asked to "Run upstairs and get five dollars from my purse" Mom might say.

    And I'd no more think of "playing" with those real guns than I would to take money from my Dad's wallet or look thru Mom's purse. It never entered my mind.

    But when I was little? I really don't know what my folks did with guns during that time. But Dad was always very responsible so I assume he kept them unloaded or put away.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    You sure love to exaggerate Sam !!!

    Carry all ones firearms on one's person ?

    The general idea is to have a sidearm in a holster for general defense, the rest are inaccessible.....

    There are of course other ways to keep firearms accesible to authorized people, yet not accessible to kids or anyone with poor impulse control etc..
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Very true, knowing that he was the cause of his grandchild's suffering can be worse punishment than anything the law might dish out.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    You sure love to exaggerate Sam !!!

    Carry all ones firearms on one's person ?

    The general idea is to have a sidearm in a holster for general defense, the rest are inaccessible.....

    There are of course other ways to keep firearms accesible to authorized people, yet not accessible to kids or anyone with poor impulse control etc..

    I was of course just kidding, as you well know.

    Not having to defend against continual invasions where I live in Houston, I'm content to have my home defense pistols ready nearby and not necessarily on my waist. Others of course, depending on the dire conditions where they live, may need ready and fast access and therefore wear the gun while walking around the house. Each gun owner decides on this, based on the crime rate and number of attempted home invasions in the place where he lives.

    But anyway, yeah, it's essential that dangerous objects be kept from access by little kids.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    Very true, knowing that he was the cause of his grandchild's suffering can be worse punishment than anything the law might dish out.

    Correct. And this is also how the law usually sees this. If the gun owner isn't some thug with maybe bags of crack sitting around too, county attorneys here in Texas decline to press charges. The do investigate, and if it's determined that the gun owner is otherwise law abiding, they don't prosecute. They know full well, as you correctly state, that the grandfather will suffer more from his own conscience than the law could ever effect.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    I don't carry in relation to level of threat, or because of specific or special reasons, I carry for the same reasons I learned in LE training, now I may not be fulfilling a LE mission anymore, but the reasoning and training still is sound.
    My sidearm should be,, at my side, loaded and ready to go, not in a safe or other place of concealment.

    If I had advance knowledge of a defensive encounter, I would be armed with the best weapon possible,, sadly,when my crystal ball broke, I can no longer predict personal defense encounters.
    So, I am prepared to face whatsoever may come my way within reason......

    Chances are, when X happens, you will have access to whatever you have in your holster, the guns in the safe may not be available at that time.... Especially If a bad guy is standing in the way....
    Moat of my defensive encounters have rapidly evolved and escalated in a manner resulting in me being armed with whatever I had on me in my holster.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,626 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    Very true, knowing that he was the cause of his grandchild's suffering can be worse punishment than anything the law might dish out.


    Funny thing. I don't care if he feels bad that his grandchild is dead, just the same way I don't feel bad for a drunk driver who wrecks and kills his best friend or relative. Feelings are irrelevant. Why would a justice system take guilt feelings into consideration?
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    You might feel differently if you were in that position, perhaps you might want mercy for yourself, people might not get a lawyer, to defend them, if they felt like you do now.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    coolgunguy wrote: »
    Funny thing. I don't care if he feels bad that his grandchild is dead, just the same way I don't feel bad for a drunk driver who wrecks and kills his best friend or relative. Feelings are irrelevant. Why would a justice system take guilt feelings into consideration?

    Not precisely guilt feelings, but extenuating circumstances. Those should generally be included in any decision for pursuing an indictment.

    For example, if the gun owner is a drug dealer with crackheads in and out all night, then toss him into jail. But otherwise, a law abiding but essentially unthinking guy whose only wrong deed was this awful thing, prosecution generally has no real effect.

    We aren't made for the law. The law is made for us. And so we must use common sense and reason into the equation, not set up a hard code that's always enforced to the letter with zero flexibility.

    At least that's how I see it.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,626 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    You might feel differently if you were in that position, perhaps you might want mercy for yourself, people might not get a lawyer, to defend them, if they felt like you do now.

    I suppose that's possible, if I were an idiot and left my loaded pistol out where a curious child could get ahold of it. However, it still wouldn't matter because I wouldn't be the one making decisions about my punishment would I? If our justice system were based on the repentant, guilty feelings of every skell that was caught, nobody would ever be imprisoned because EVERYBODY would always be really, really sorry...after being caught.:roll:
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,626 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Not precisely guilt feelings, but extenuating circumstances. Those should generally be included in any decision for pursuing an indictment.

    For example, if the gun owner is a drug dealer with crackheads in and out all night, then toss him into jail. But otherwise, a law abiding but essentially unthinking guy whose only wrong deed was this awful thing, prosecution generally has no real effect.

    We aren't made for the law. The law is made for us. And so we must use common sense and reason into the equation, not set up a hard code that's always enforced to the letter with zero flexibility.

    At least that's how I see it.

    I'm not saying the dude goes to the hoosegow forever, or even at all. I'm just saying he has to answer for his actions, regardless of his 'feelings'. We can't convict somebody due to another's bad feelings toward them, nor should we avoid punishing at all somebody who feels bad about consequences to their own actions. The law is not about feelings.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Circumstances, not feelings, if someone is not thinking properly, they might make poor decisions, they might not ordinarily make, you may think, I would never do X, perhaps not, does anybody expect to have an accident ? Soil themselves ? No.

    There can come a time in anyone's life, that a particularly poor decision or act can result in a chain of very harmful events, the law of unintended consequences, do you prosecute those people as you would intentionally criminal violators ?

    No, the law is written to take intent and motive into account as well as a persons state of mind when the act was committed.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,721 Senior Member
    coolgunguy wrote: »
    I suppose that's possible, if I were an idiot and left my loaded pistol out where a curious child could get ahold of it. However, it still wouldn't matter because I wouldn't be the one making decisions about my punishment would I? If our justice system were based on the repentant, guilty feelings of every skell that was caught, nobody would ever be imprisoned because EVERYBODY would always be really, really sorry...after being caught.:roll:

    :that::that: Pretty much
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    I expect that from you, a blithering ah.
    Wise people say, "here but by the grace of God go I."
    All it takes is one error, and you too, may find yourself wishing for Justice to be tempered with mercy....
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
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