O'Rilley gets it wrong about Armslist as a backdoor way to get a gun

Big ChiefBig Chief Senior MemberPosts: 32,995 Senior Member
O'Rilley show tonight had their reporter on the ground in Chattanooga and the question came up about where the Terrorist got his guns and he told BO some were purchased the legal regular way and some through Armslist. Then BO starts blabbing about it being a backdoor way to obtain guns without getting a background check.

The reporter correctly says it was started by two Air Force Academy graduates who did it after eBay and like sites refused to list guns anymore.

I have never bought anything off Armslist, but common sense would tell me or anyone they would have been shutdown long ago if they were breaking any gun laws. This is on their front page of their site.

I'm thinking you have to follow all the local laws and anything from out of state will have to be a transaction through an FFL with a background check, unless say like here in FLA it is legal to have a private gun sale between two individuals. Here I can scan the classified ads and if I see one I'm interested in, call and go look at it and buy it just between me and the seller and like wise I can place an ad and sell a gun myself with the only stipulation that I believe the buyer is a law abiding citizen and for my protection look at his ID to make sure he is a FLA resident or from a state which allows the transaction. Also I'd get a bill of sale with BOTH our data on it.

Anti gun groups have went after Armslist with their usual lies and distortions.

For someone who prides himself on getting the facts straight he needs to do his homework on Armslist before condemning a legal activity. Are people really stupid enough to think you can get a AR-15 from a guy say in TX mailed to you in FLA without going through an FFL dealer and getting a BC? Or criminals use Armslist exclusively to obtain a gun illegally say in a state which allows private gun transactions.


http://www.armslist.com/


"Disclaimer

Always comply with local, state, federal, and international law. ARMSLIST does not become involved in transactions between parties. Review our privacy policy and terms of use for more information. Report Illegal Firearms Activity to 1-800-ATF-GUNS FREE."

And their terms of use on the same site.
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!

Replies

  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    Bill the blowhard orielly is a gun hating liberal er. I hate that sorry loudmouth yellow bellied sap sucker.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    I think he really doesn't know. Sure here in FLA or any state with the same private sales laws a person could buy a gun without going through an FFL and from a parking lot or a Thrifty Nickel Ad, newspaper or a 3X5 card posted on the bulletin board at the local range.

    Of course, I'd refuse a private sale to anyone who I was suspicious about and who couldn't produce valid ID. And I'd be the first to call the police and report them if I felt they were up to something nefarious.

    He lives in where, NY? Where you can't do things like that.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Let Fox News know your feeling on his erroneous comments about Armslist.

    [email protected]
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    Bill the blowhard is not gun friendly. Any time guns are in the news he has something stupid to say. He knows NOTHING about guns and only spouts stupid liberal mantra.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,407 Senior Member
    Oleblowhard routinely calls AK's and AR's "Heavy Weapons". As well as being a draft dodging coward who wouldn't serve his country, he's also woefully ignorant of even the most basic firearms terminology. No point in trying to correct him, the arrogant offspring of a canine just ignores facts to promote his own agenda.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • N320AWN320AW Senior Member Posts: 648 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    O'Rilley show tonight had their reporter on the ground in Chattanooga and the question came up about where the Terrorist got his guns and he told BO some were purchased the legal regular way and some through Armslist. Then BO starts blabbing about it being a backdoor way to obtain guns without getting a background check.

    The reporter correctly says it was started by two Air Force Academy graduates who did it after eBay and like sites refused to list guns anymore.

    I have never bought anything off Armslist, but common sense would tell me or anyone they would have been shutdown long ago if they were breaking any gun laws. This is on their front page of their site.

    I'm thinking you have to follow all the local laws and anything from out of state will have to be a transaction through an FFL with a background check, unless say like here in FLA it is legal to have a private gun sale between two individuals. Here I can scan the classified ads and if I see one I'm interested in, call and go look at it and buy it just between me and the seller and like wise I can place an ad and sell a gun myself with the only stipulation that I believe the buyer is a law abiding citizen and for my protection look at his ID to make sure he is a FLA resident or from a state which allows the transaction. Also I'd get a bill of sale with BOTH our data on it.

    Anti gun groups have went after Armslist with their usual lies and distortions.

    For someone who prides himself on getting the facts straight he needs to do his homework on Armslist before condemning a legal activity. Are people really stupid enough to think you can get a AR-15 from a guy say in TX mailed to you in FLA without going through an FFL dealer and getting a BC? Or criminals use Armslist exclusively to obtain a gun illegally say in a state which allows private gun transactions.


    http://www.armslist.com/


    "Disclaimer

    Always comply with local, state, federal, and international law. ARMSLIST does not become involved in transactions between parties. Review our privacy policy and terms of use for more information. Report Illegal Firearms Activity to 1-800-ATF-GUNS FREE."

    And their terms of use on the same site.

    I've purchased and sold firearms on Gun Broker and Guns America. Their requirements are that all transactions go through an FFL holder. Obviously those sites don't have any control over that, but all the private individuals I've bought guns from stipulate that I send an FFL to them before they will ship. I also require a faxed or email copy of the buyers FFL before I will accept a firearm.

    O'Rielly has always been a knee-jerk idiot. Then again, a lot of people here, responding to my earlier poll, voted overwhelmingly that Fox was their favorite news site. Go figure.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,099 Senior Member
    N320AW wrote: »
    I've purchased and sold firearms on Gun Broker and Guns America. Their requirements are that all transactions go through an FFL holder. Obviously those sites don't have any control over that, but all the private individuals I've bought guns from stipulate that I send an FFL to them before they will ship. I also require a faxed or email copy of the buyers FFL before I will accept a firearm.

    O'Rielly has always been a knee-jerk idiot. Then again, a lot of people here, responding to my earlier poll, voted overwhelmingly that Fox was their favorite news site. Go figure.

    I see your problem. O'Reilly is not a news provider. His program is an editorial format that promotes HIS OPINION on the news stories of the day. You are confusing news with opinion.

    O'Reilly has a large staff that could be tasked with finding out the facts of such things as Armslist and sales going only through FFL holders, but he is a blowhard that will not check facts if the facts might disprove his own OPINION of what he thinks the facts should be.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • N320AWN320AW Senior Member Posts: 648 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    I see your problem. O'Reilly is not a news provider. His program is an editorial format that promotes HIS OPINION on the news stories of the day. You are confusing news with opinion.

    O'Reilly has a large staff that could be tasked with finding out the facts of such things as Armslist and sales going only through FFL holders, but he is a blowhard that will not check facts if the facts might disprove his own OPINION of what he thinks the facts should be.

    I haven't seen a NEWS REPORTER yet on FNC. Why don't they have a White House reporter? Why don't they have an evening news show? All Fox has is talking heads/pundits with LEGS.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,851 Senior Member
    O'reilly is a whole lot more conservative than he is Liberal. What do y'all expect? He's born and raised in New York. I doubt he ever fired a gun in his life. But, I have heard him take up for the second amendment. Also he refers to Obummer as a Pin Head. He can't be too bad.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • N320AWN320AW Senior Member Posts: 648 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    O'reilly is a whole lot more conservative than he is Liberal. What do y'all expect? He's born and raised in New York. I doubt he ever fired a gun in his life. But, I have heard him take up for the second amendment. Also he refers to Obummer as a Pin Head. He can't be too bad.

    I basically agree with you Snake. However, he is all for himself. As Colbert once joked about BO's show, . . . "Its not about ME." Of course it is. Now he's trying to push this San Francisco tragedy into Kate's Law. I agree with that proposition, but BO is trying to garner support for himself as this name, I assume, was created by him. More notoriety for himself. I detest him.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    He taught HS in Miami and was a news caster in several cities..............I am highly disappointed in him over this. He usually checks the facts or has his staff do it to make sure sure he has it right, like he does with charities and so forth.

    He does own a gun(s) and said on his show he would use one to protect his family/home. I'm sure he has other security around too in his neighborhood.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,451 Senior Member
    N320AW wrote: »
    I haven't seen a NEWS REPORTER yet on FNC. Why don't they have a White House reporter? Why don't they have an evening news show? All Fox has is talking heads/pundits with LEGS.


    Ed Henry is Fox's Whitehouse correspondent. Brit Hume and Brett Baier do the evening show last I checked. If you want to look at Hume's legs, I guess I won't judge...
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,851 Senior Member
    N320AW wrote: »
    I basically agree with you Snake. However, he is all for himself. As Colbert once joked about BO's show, . . . "Its not about ME." Of course it is. Now he's trying to push this San Francisco tragedy into Kate's Law. I agree with that proposition, but BO is trying to garner support for himself as this name, I assume, was created by him. More notoriety for himself. I detest him.

    I don't detest him because he's mostly on the right side of issues I care about, but he can be an arrogant B...tch. I love Sean Hannity. He gives the libtards no quarter.

    I like Britt Hume and Brett Baier . And it's funny to watch Ed Henry talking to Josh Ernst or Ernest however you spell it. The Prez's mouth piece. He get's him pretty flustered sometimes. But I guess one reason I take up for almost everyone on Fox News is because all my life all we had was the commie net work. And they make everybody on fox look like Michael Savage. And Savage is so far right the radar don't even go there.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    The whole buying firearms on the internet thing escapes most people, they don't follow the complete process, that folks either have an FFL or need to pick up those ordered firearms at a local to them FFL, that all firearms are being shipped to FFL holders, to include holders of C&R licenses.

    Also that instant check background checks are being performed.
    Nobody legitimately purchasing firearms is circumventing any normal sales or Government procedures.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Email Fox News.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,539 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Email Fox News.

    I hope that Armslist will contact O'Reilly and Fox News. I think that would carry far more weight than any interested third party. I'll contact Armslist to make sure they are aware of what BS Bill had to say.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,539 Senior Member
    If you want to know exactly what O'Reilly said about Armslist, go to http://www.billoreilly.com/video#play, and play the video titled "An update from Chattanooga Factor Followup". Starting at about the 3:15 mark, O'Reilly starts talking about Armslist.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,851 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    If you want to know exactly what O'Reilly said about Armslist, go to http://www.billoreilly.com/video#play, and play the video titled "An update from Chattanooga Factor Followup". Starting at about the 3:15 mark, O'Reilly starts talking about Armslist.

    I listened to the whole spill. I didn't think O'Reilly bashed Arms List, he was taking his lead from the reporter, John Roberts. But both failed to realize that all firearms sales still have to go through an authorized FFL holder. There's no bypassing the law here. But with all the BS the lame stream media spews, if you aren't up on the regulations of firearm purchasing, you can get it wrong real easily. And this is why the left has made the inroads into gun control it has.

    What we can all do is email Fox (The more the better) and straighten Bill out. Not only Bill O but the rest of Fox's reporters. I don't know why Hannity hasn't jumped right in his back yet. He knows better and he's as pro gun as you get. And that's really amazing considering he's a Nu Youka too.

    One thing about Hannity, he lived down south a while when he was younger. and his wife is from Alabama. He is a concealed handgun carrier and active shooter.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,539 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    I listened to the whole spill. I didn't think O'Reilly bashed Arms List, he was taking his lead from the reporter, John Roberts. But both failed to realize that the sales still have to go through an authorized FFL holder. There's o bypassing the law here.

    Some states allow private sales which do not have to go through an FFL holder. Bill also stated that there were a couple of murders in NY that were by committed by someone(s) who had purchased a gun via Armslist. Neither of these make the purchase illegal by themselves.

    Bill conveniently left out that the guns purchased by the Chattanooga shooter might have been purchased legally. I sent email to him asking if he knew whether or not the purchase was legal. I'll be surprised if there will be a follow up, though.

    From my reading of the Armslist FAQ I don't think that O'Reilly did a very thorough investigation of how it operates.

    I really wish that Armslist would respond. I think that would be best.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,274 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    Some states allow private sales which do not have to go through an FFL holder. Bill also stated that there were a couple of murders in NY that were by committed by someone(s) who had purchased a gun via Armslist. Neither of these make the purchase illegal by themselves.

    Bill conveniently left out that the guns purchased by the Chattanooga shooter might have been purchased legally. I sent email to him asking if he knew whether or not the purchase was legal. I'll be surprised if there will be a follow up, though.

    From my reading of the Armslist FAQ I don't think that O'Reilly did a very thorough investigation of how it operates.

    I really wish that Armslist would respond. I think that would be best.

    I thought most states, the free ones anyhow, allowed private sales w/o backround checks. Many listings here in AL the sellers stipulate they will only sell to concealed carry holders or at least people with an AL DL. I think it's more a CYA thing, not an Armslist requirement.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,851 Senior Member
    OK I emailed O'Reilly and pointed out the error of his way. I suggest all of you do that. Even if you don't like O'Reilly, your personal dislike for him or anybody isn't going to change the fact that he has a lot of people's ear. And they aren't going to fire him, because he's a hot item whether you like it or not. So hold your nose and email him and point out the error of his ways that no internet gun purchases happen without going through a licensed FFL holder.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,851 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    Some states allow private sales which do not have to go through an FFL holder. Bill also stated that there were a couple of murders in NY that were by committed by someone(s) who had purchased a gun via Armslist. Neither of these make the purchase illegal by themselves.

    Bill conveniently left out that the guns purchased by the Chattanooga shooter might have been purchased legally. I sent email to him asking if he knew whether or not the purchase was legal. I'll be surprised if there will be a follow up, though.

    From my reading of the Armslist FAQ I don't think that O'Reilly did a very thorough investigation of how it operates.

    I really wish that Armslist would respond. I think that would be best.

    Jerry, going through an FFL is not a state law, it's a federal law. To be legal by mail it has to go through a licensed FFL Dealer. The point in question was not about private purchases. It was about dealing with Arms List. Texas allows private purchases. Heck a third of what I have was by private purchase. But I didn't get them over the internet and I didn't get them in the mail. They were face to face in person purchases. That's something the Fed hasn't addressed (YET).
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,539 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Jerry, going through an FFL is not a state law, it's a federal law. To be legal by mail it has to go through a licensed FFL Dealer. The point in question was not about private purchases. It was about dealing with Arms List. Texas allows private purchases. Heck a third of what I have was by private purchase. But I didn't get them over the internet and I didn't get them in the mail. They were face to face in person purchases. That's something the Fed hasn't addressed (YET).

    Snake, Armslist is basically an online want ads service for folks who want to buy and/or sell firearms. It doesn't restrict sellers to FFL holders. If the sale is local, and private, it's up to the state law as to whether a background check is required. Armslist does not facilitate the sale. It simply connects a buy and seller.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,851 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    Snake, Armslist is basically an online want ads service for folks who want to buy and/or sell firearms. It doesn't restrict sellers to FFL holders. If the sale is local, and private, it's up to the state law as to whether a background check is required. Armslist does not facilitate the sale. It simply connects a buy and seller.

    OK Gotcha, I was thinking it was like Gun Broker. But I think that's what O'Reilly was thinking too. But here's something to consider. Say you see a gun on that list you can't live without and you contact the seller and he lives 1000 miles from you and you really don't want to drive that far. You're going to send him a money order and he's going to send you the gun. But, to do that legally it's got to go to an FFL dealer near you. I would think the post office or UPS or whoever is not going to allow you to send it without a copy of an FFL it's going to. If it's in your home town or 50 or 100 miles down the road and you don't mind the drive, yep thats a legal private purchase where I am.

    Anyway, anyway you look at it Bill O and John Roberts got it wrong.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Gator MonroeGator Monroe Banned Posts: 655 Senior Member
    Bill O'Liely is middle left at best (And he goes out of his way to not pi$$ off his liberal friends in his personal life )
  • N320AWN320AW Senior Member Posts: 648 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    OK Gotcha, I was thinking it was like Gun Broker. But I think that's what O'Reilly was thinking too. But here's something to consider. Say you see a gun on that list you can't live without and you contact the seller and he lives 1000 miles from you and you really don't want to drive that far. You're going to send him a money order and he's going to send you the gun. But, to do that legally it's got to go to an FFL dealer near you. I would think the post office or UPS or whoever is not going to allow you to send it without a copy of an FFL it's going to. If it's in your home town or 50 or 100 miles down the road and you don't mind the drive, yep thats a legal private purchase where I am.

    Anyway, anyway you look at it Bill O and John Roberts got it wrong.

    Small correction about Post Office, UPS, FEDEX or whomever. These entities do not require to see an FFL at all. Frankly, its none of their business. Any handgun, by the way, HAS to be shipped by overnight air. I have a feeling this is to minimize the time a small package is handled by untold how many people. Small packages can find there way into an employees car trunk if you get my drift?
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    When I was a LEO, cameras were already minutely surveying employees in all the major package delivery services, United Postal Service even more so with lots of supervisors and informant employees seeking job promotion from within, not much chance indoors, more chance of deliveries getting stolen by leaving it unattended on a doorstep, than any other means.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,525 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Jerry, going through an FFL is not a state law, it's a federal law. To be legal by mail it has to go through a licensed FFL Dealer. The point in question was not about private purchases. It was about dealing with Arms List. Texas allows private purchases. Heck a third of what I have was by private purchase. But I didn't get them over the internet and I didn't get them in the mail. They were face to face in person purchases. That's something the Fed hasn't addressed (YET).

    Nope. To transfer across state lines, yes, but for example in PA if I wanted to send a rifle to someone who lived in PA, I put it in a box and mail it after the check clears same as a FtF sale. Handguns are required to be processed through a FFL so the NICS gets done. States set their own regulations within their boarders.

    Armslist is just Craigslist for firearms and related.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • Gator MonroeGator Monroe Banned Posts: 655 Senior Member
    Matt "Turbothis" Yeemans (West Coast AK/AKM guru/builder) mailed my Chinese type 56 "Spiker" AK that i previously purchased & DROsed one of his Type 56 Receivers for and had delivered personally to his facility,( along with all the painstakingly gathered correct Chinese parts for which he assembled the Type 56 "Turbo" AK) back to me in Far Nor Cal via brown (no FFL involved due to my having already purchased the "Receiver" from an FFL. But in California Most Face to Face sales (Non DROsed or FFL involved) ended in the late 90s (Unless Firearm is C&R/Antique)
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