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Cecil the Lion Killed by Dentist Causes Uproar

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Replies

  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    The pictures remind me of Vladamir Putin.
    2AE866FA00000578-3177303-image-a-12_1438095539460.jpg
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Well then, we can be unpopular together. :up:

    I don't mind Trophy Hunting, as long as it's totally legal and not some pet that had to be lured off a preserve or out of some park where it was protected. If that's all true then it totally sucks and I don't think any of us are unpopular for thinking so. If I'm unpopular, what else is new???

    But seriously, you can't tell me this jerk didn't have a clue what he was doing. He just underestimated the outrage it would Cause. Now this just really made jerks out of all us hunters the world over. Makes me sick!!!
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    My statement was in general. From what I see in this specific situation, it stinks horribly. First off, bringing a bow and arrow to shoot a lion is pretty lame. It is NOT enough gun! And it was clearly evidenced by them having to track the animal for two days. If they skinned the animal and left the meat to waste, they are dicks-- every one of them! Then there is the matter of it being GPS collared and the luring from the park, and all the other stuff. It sounds like this dentist was forking out so much money for this hunt, they would do just about anything for their trophy fee. It also seems like this dentist needs that kind of thing to get an **** anymore but that isn't trophy hunting in general...

    I am cool with killing elephants. I am not cool with killing elephants just to saw off the tusks and make their foot into an ashtray, nor am I cool with killing elephants if it does not align with good conservation. Or with an inadequate weapon.

    I agree. I'm cool with hunting of course, else I'm the biggest hypocrit this side of hell. But I'm not cool with killing anything for the wrong reasons. I have a deer head on the wall here. I hope to put a couple more up there some day. But, the meat got eaten. Even the hide got used by my Grandson Blayne. He's into tanning the hides now. I'm happy with all that, as long as that animal doesn't die in vain so some arrogant prick can hang its head on his wall and blow about what a great hunter he is, even if he had to lure it out of a park because he wasn't good enough of a hunter to find one in the wild. Now most people don't eat cats, I know some here say it's good, but I don't think it's my cup of tea. But the hungry people there eat it, and if this cat's meat went to waste then double shame on this jerk. If all or hell any of this is true, then this Dentist should be banned from hunting here in the U.S.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,035 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    Probably ought to ask that question to Africans whose livestock (and sometimes the Africans themselves) are preyed upon by lions. Throughout Rhodesia and South Africa lions were treated as vermin for many years. The only reason that changed is that it's more profitable to charge wealthy Europeans and Americans healthy license and trophy fees for the opportunity to kill one.

    That being said, the act of baiting this cat (or any animal) off a reserve in order to kill it and for the people (the rangers) who are paid to protect the animal to be part and party to it is IMHO despicable.....

    Not a whole lot of difference between hunting the border of Yellowstone park like some outfitters/guides used to do for elk.
    In that case they baited/drew the elk out with salt. I believe the G&F dept. knew about it, but turned a blind eye. I don't know if it's still happening or not. By the way, I saw on TV last night that the average life span for an adult male lion is 12-14 years.
    Cecil was 13 I believe. The bunny huggers are sure having a field day with this. CNN is like a pit bull, it chomped down and won't let go.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,616 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    Probably ought to ask that question to Africans whose livestock (and sometimes the Africans themselves) are preyed upon by lions. Throughout Rhodesia and South Africa lions were treated as vermin for many years. The only reason that changed is that it's more profitable to charge wealthy Europeans and Americans healthy license and trophy fees for the opportunity to kill one.

    That being said, the act of baiting this cat (or any animal) off a reserve in order to kill it and for the people (the rangers) who are paid to protect the animal to be part and party to it is IMHO despicable.....

    Good point, especially the last one. While lions did kill Africans and livestock, and here in America they've killed livestock and occasionally a human, African lions don't kill humans on parks. Over here they're rare enough to not hunt them down to extinction, and I understand the same applies to African lions.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • FreezerFreezer Senior Member Posts: 2,384 Senior Member
    This is an opportunistic black eye to hunters. The media celebrities, anti hunters and anti gunners are all over this before the facts are known. For that reason I hold judgment. This is too complicated to explain in 30 second news blurbs. If there is wrong doing I hope the book is thrown at them. I doubt if the dentist did nothing illegal the media will acquit him but still make an issue of how bad hunting is. I'm so tired of these hypocrites. When a pedophile drug addict dies everyone should celebrate but the media and celebrities cried for Michael Jackson. I don't understand. That's a good thing.
    I like Elmer Keith; I married his daughter :wink:
  • SlanteyedshootistSlanteyedshootist Senior Member Posts: 3,947 Senior Member
    And here I thought Cecil was a sea sick sea serpent. Which, by the way, is an endangered species.

    My take on this whole affair is that the antihunters, attention whore celebrities, etc., etc. will grab on to anything and everything to push their agenda and get more media time. Legal, illegal, trophy, sustenance, whatever. They just want to impress their will on everyone who doesn't agree with them.

    Case in point is Kendall Jones. She gets death threats, insults and stuff on a regular basis. Some guy even offered a reward for nude pics of her. The trolls even insult her makeup. Kerist on a crutch.
    The answer to 1984 is 1776
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    Fat Billy wrote: »
    It is a shame that the lion was killed after leading it off the preserve. Sounds like a baited field to me. The new media needed the lion story to keep the sale of aborted babies being sold for profit. Cecil is a shame, Planned Parenthood is a crime. I wish we had a camouflage system as good during WW II. Japan would have been unable to find Pearl Harbor. Any word on the aircraft part found in the Indian ocean? As usual, not much. :popcorn: Later,

    I've started a topic on PP harvesting and selling fetal tissue. It's in the political forum. Please feel free to state your views there. Here's a pointer.

    http://forums.gunsandammo.com/showthread.php?25244-Planned-Parenthood-harvesting-and-selling-fetal-tissue
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 25,146 Senior Member
    And here I thought Cecil was a sea sick sea serpent. Which, by the way, is an endangered species.

    My take on this whole affair is that the antihunters, attention whore celebrities, etc., etc. will grab on to anything and everything to push their agenda and get more media time. Legal, illegal, trophy, sustenance, whatever. They just want to impress their will on everyone who doesn't agree with them.

    Case in point is Kendall Jones. She gets death threats, insults and stuff on a regular basis. Some guy even offered a reward for nude pics of her. The trolls even insult her makeup. Kerist on a crutch.
    :agree:
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    My statement was in general. From what I see in this specific situation, it stinks horribly. First off, bringing a bow and arrow to shoot a lion is pretty lame. It is NOT enough gun! And it was clearly evidenced by them having to track the animal for two days. If they skinned the animal and left the meat to waste, they are dicks-- every one of them! Then there is the matter of it being GPS collared and the luring from the park, and all the other stuff. It sounds like this dentist was forking out so much money for this hunt, they would do just about anything for their trophy fee. It also seems like this dentist needs that kind of thing to get an **** anymore but that isn't trophy hunting in general...

    I am cool with killing elephants. I am not cool with killing elephants just to saw off the tusks and make their foot into an ashtray, nor am I cool with killing elephants if it does not align with good conservation. Or with an inadequate weapon.

    Don't tell a dedicated fanatic bow hunter this. Hell, some of them I know, such as my son inlaw, think you can kill Godzilla with a bow. Me, I believe everything has its limits. That's why you don't hear of too many PHs using a 222 For elephants (Sorry Alec).
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    And here I thought Cecil was a sea sick sea serpent. Which, by the way, is an endangered species.

    My take on this whole affair is that the antihunters, attention whore celebrities, etc., etc. will grab on to anything and everything to push their agenda and get more media time. Legal, illegal, trophy, sustenance, whatever. They just want to impress their will on everyone who doesn't agree with them.

    Case in point is Kendall Jones. She gets death threats, insults and stuff on a regular basis. Some guy even offered a
    reward for nude pics of her. The trolls even insult her makeup. Kerist on a crutch.

    You got that right Craig.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 25,146 Senior Member
    IMO with all the demonstrating out side the dentist's office, as soon as someone from Mn shoots Bullwinkle hunting and fishing will be outlawed in MN.
  • 1965Jeff1965Jeff Senior Member Posts: 1,648 Senior Member
    From what I've read so far what this troll did does not meet my definition of hunting. That being said , if 55k is the going rate for a bow hunted lion, I have no clue . To me this this guy is a slob who should be investigated.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    To add further fuel to the "how the media is handling this" fire, consider the following.

    Last night on Bill O'Reilly's show, he stated that the three major networks (NBC, ABC and CBS) news programs had devoted a bit over 30 minutes of coverage to the Cecil the Lion story, and just a little over 10 to Planned Parenthood's harvesting and selling of fetus tissue.

    I wonder if PETA members and others who strongly feel that "meat is murder" would be ok if unborn calves, sheep, pigs, etc. were aborted and their body parts sold for consumption?
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,591 Senior Member
    I've never agreed with trophy hunting; I think it's just a waste of animals. I have always believed that if you take game, it should be for consumption. I accept that this doesn't apply to pest species, but if, for example, I had a buddy call me up and ask me to take care of some feral hogs ruining his property, I'd be on that like a fly on cow pies. I love bacon.

    In any case, as far as the stuffed animals they're leaving outside the dentist's office, I'd be glad that they did. Gather them up and donate them to Toys for Tots or a local Children's Hospital.
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 18,141 Senior Member
    :rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao: This is rich.....

    http://news.yahoo.com/lion-zimbabweans-ask-amid-global-cecil-circus-140822692.html

    "What lion?' Zimbabweans ask, amid global Cecil circus"

    "As social media exploded with outrage this week at the killing of Cecil the lion, the untimely passing of the celebrated predator at the hands of an American dentist went largely unnoticed in the animal's native Zimbabwe.

    "What lion?" acting information minister Prisca Mupfumira asked in response to a request for comment about Cecil, who was at that moment topping global news bulletins and generating reams of abuse for his killer on websites in the United States and Europe.

    The government has still given no formal response, and on Thursday the papers that chose to run the latest twist in the Cecil saga tucked it away on inside pages.

    One title had to rely on foreign news agency copy because it failed to send a reporter to the court appearance of two locals involved.

    In contrast, the previous evening 200 people stood in protest outside the suburban Minneapolis dental practice of 55-year-old Walter Palmer, calling for him to be extradited to Zimbabwe to face charges of taking part in an illegal hunt.

    Local police are also investigating death threats against Palmer, whose location is not known. Because many of the threats were online, police are having difficulty determining their origins and credibility.

    Palmer, a lifelong big game hunter, has admitted killing Cecil with a bow and arrow on July 1 near Zimbabwe's Hwange national park, but said he had hired professional local guides with the required hunting permits and believed the hunt was legal.

    For most people in the southern African nation, where unemployment tops 80 percent and the economy continues to feel the after-effects of billion percent hyperinflation a decade ago, the uproar had all the hallmarks of a 'First World Problem'.

    "Are you saying that all this noise is about a dead lion? Lions are killed all the time in this country," said Tryphina Kaseke, a used-clothes hawker on the streets of Harare. "What is so special about this one?"

    As with many countries in Africa, in Zimbabwe big wild animals such as lions, elephants or hippos are seen either as a potential meal, or a threat to people and property that needs to be controlled or killed.

    The world of Palmer, who paid $50,000 to kill 13-year-old Cecil, is a very different one from that inhabited by millions of rural Africans who are more than occasionally victims of wild animal attacks.

    According to CrocBITE, a database, from January 2008 to October 2013, there were more than 460 recorded attacks by Nile crocodiles, most of them fatal. That tally is almost certainly a massive underrepresentation.

    "Why are the Americans more concerned than us?" said Joseph Mabuwa, a 33-year-old father-of-two cleaning his car in the center of the capital. "We never hear them speak out when villagers are killed by lions and elephants in Hwange."

    (Additional reporting by Ed Stoddard in Johannesburg; Editing by Ed Cropley and Giles Elgood)
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    :rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao: This is rich.....

    http://news.yahoo.com/lion-zimbabweans-ask-amid-global-cecil-circus-140822692.html

    "What lion?' Zimbabweans ask, amid global Cecil circus"

    "As social media exploded with outrage this week at the killing of Cecil the lion, the untimely passing of the celebrated predator at the hands of an American dentist went largely unnoticed in the animal's native Zimbabwe.

    "What lion?" acting information minister Prisca Mupfumira asked in response to a request for comment about Cecil, who was at that moment topping global news bulletins and generating reams of abuse for his killer on websites in the United States and Europe.

    The government has still given no formal response, and on Thursday the papers that chose to run the latest twist in the Cecil saga tucked it away on inside pages.

    One title had to rely on foreign news agency copy because it failed to send a reporter to the court appearance of two locals involved.

    In contrast, the previous evening 200 people stood in protest outside the suburban Minneapolis dental practice of 55-year-old Walter Palmer, calling for him to be extradited to Zimbabwe to face charges of taking part in an illegal hunt.

    Local police are also investigating death threats against Palmer, whose location is not known. Because many of the threats were online, police are having difficulty determining their origins and credibility.

    Palmer, a lifelong big game hunter, has admitted killing Cecil with a bow and arrow on July 1 near Zimbabwe's Hwange national park, but said he had hired professional local guides with the required hunting permits and believed the hunt was legal.

    For most people in the southern African nation, where unemployment tops 80 percent and the economy continues to feel the after-effects of billion percent hyperinflation a decade ago, the uproar had all the hallmarks of a 'First World Problem'.

    "Are you saying that all this noise is about a dead lion? Lions are killed all the time in this country," said Tryphina Kaseke, a used-clothes hawker on the streets of Harare. "What is so special about this one?"

    As with many countries in Africa, in Zimbabwe big wild animals such as lions, elephants or hippos are seen either as a potential meal, or a threat to people and property that needs to be controlled or killed.

    The world of Palmer, who paid $50,000 to kill 13-year-old Cecil, is a very different one from that inhabited by millions of rural Africans who are more than occasionally victims of wild animal attacks.

    According to CrocBITE, a database, from January 2008 to October 2013, there were more than 460 recorded attacks by Nile crocodiles, most of them fatal. That tally is almost certainly a massive underrepresentation.

    "Why are the Americans more concerned than us?" said Joseph Mabuwa, a 33-year-old father-of-two cleaning his car in the center of the capital. "We never hear them speak out when villagers are killed by lions and elephants in Hwange."

    (Additional reporting by Ed Stoddard in Johannesburg; Editing by Ed Cropley and Giles Elgood)
    Only indolent western culture allows people to get this pissed off over a dead animal. The bulk of the world have bigger issues such as water and food for the table tonight.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 25,146 Senior Member
    Only indolent western culture allows people to get this pissed off over a dead animal. The bulk of the world have bigger issues such as water and food for the table tonight.
    And we should have bigger issues as well
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,577 Senior Member
    I've hunted coyote that I could never prove beyond even elementary levels of likelihood had anything to do with being a pest to another human or domesticated animal--pet or livestock. But I shoot them anyways.

    It's sporting, and has a visceral satisfaction of some kind; even if retrospectively macabre or basely-distasteful. But I'll do it again and again. I enjoy it. A lot.

    Now apply that to trophy hunters. Admittedly there are exponentially fewer lion than there are coyote, but I think fundamentally the mentality of the hunter is the same with both species. On one hand with coyote the trophy is a pelt (if kept) and the intangible satisfaction of the hunt and kill. On the other hand with a lion, the trophy is the hide and mount along with the same intangible satisfaction of the hunt and kill. And it's even more satisfying due to the distance traveled and absurd money staked, I'm sure.

    I don't look down my nose at trophy hunters...I fundamentally can't. Hell, if anyone has ever killed an animal for sport and still regards it as acceptable then neither can they.

    A prairie dog killed no where near civilization for the sake of it bears no philosophical difference to killing a lion for the sake of it. Only their majesty in the eyes of man contrasts.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,561 Senior Member
    There are things I do not care about.


    This is one.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,577 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    There are things I do not care about.


    This is one.

    11 words that sum up my probably 500.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 25,146 Senior Member
    Well, I care
    the lion was too familiar with people it was just a matter of time until he killed someone.
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    There are things I do not care about.


    This is one.
    This is because you are mean, and in the name of science test the effects of heavy metals, when introduced to various animals at high velocities.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,996 Senior Member
    Cecil_zps1p63h0lu.jpg
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 18,141 Senior Member
    From 1990 to 2005 at least 563 villagers were attacked by lions and many were eaten. Where's the outrage?
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,561 Senior Member
    This is because you are mean, and in the name of science test the effects of heavy metals, when introduced to various animals at high velocities.
    Speaking of which........where is the autopsy? Where was he hit? What organs were struck? How far did he run? What did they finish him with? How many finishing shots? For crying out loud!!!!! Where is the terminal ballistics report?!? Where is the science, man?!?!?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    It is Africa !
    Do you think Africa is like America as far as laws ?
    Anything is legal in Africa if you pay off the right people in Government and are discreet about it.
    And when you do pay enough, the trophy will be delivered.
    I don't care much for trophy hunting, or canned hunts etcetera, however I support people's rights to do so.
    This guy perhaps does not give a rat's ass about being notorious, if I were to hunt such a trophy, my name would never appear anywhere because I hate notoriety.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    I'm thinking of starting a protest alliance called "Lion Lives Matter".

    Who's with me?
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,080 Senior Member
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Where do I sign up!!!

    You start by paying a registration fee. PM me and I'll provide the details.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
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