Cincinatti police officer arrested

Gene LGene L Senior MemberPosts: 10,037 Senior Member
Saw the video of the shooting, just short of him shooting the guy in the head. I'm convinced the UofC officer should have been arrested and fired. There was absolutely no threat to him. The driver was merely obeying the officer's order to remove his seat belt. The tone of the victim was not insulting or hostile, not that that would justify a shooting.

I don't understand the reasons behind the officer shooting at all. He's under $1million bail, which he won't make.
Not too many problems you can't fix
With a 1911 and a 30-06
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Replies

  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,472 Senior Member
    I pretty much agree with you, Gene. It did appear to me that the driver was trying to drive off, but even that doesn't justify shooting.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,715 Senior Member
    From what the video shows (I've seen the unedited version that shows the shot to the head) the murder charge should stick. Even if he was attempting to drive off(car didn't move until he was shot), a missing front plate and not having his driver's license on him is pretty thin reason to draw a weapon, much less shoot him in the head. Already had his license plate # and description of vehicle. Just put out a warrant for his arrest and be done with it if he drove off.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,802 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    From what the video shows (I've seen the unedited version that shows the shot to the head) the murder charge should stick. Even if he was attempting to drive off(car didn't move until he was shot), a missing front plate and not having his driver's license on him is pretty thin reason to draw a weapon, much less shoot him in the head. Already had his license plate # and description of vehicle. Just put out a warrant for his arrest and be done with it if he drove off.

    This cop is screwed. The attitude of a lot of the country right now is anti cop anyway. He just didn't think about what he was doing. Maybe he accidentally pulled the trigger, but from what I heard on the video, the cop was over reacting anyway. He probably should never have drawn his gun. That's probably why the victim was trying to drive off. Stupid is as Stupid Does I guess...
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,253 Senior Member
    Running from an out of control idiot with a gun is a pretty basic instinct. Just because the idiot is wearing a badge doesn't change the flight instinct much.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,037 Senior Member
    Up to what I saw, which is up to the shot fired, the guy didn't try to drive off. I understand the car rolled forward after the shot.

    There is a lack of trust in LE and the inner city, and such as this is why. I was in the biz for 30+ years and never fired a shot during that time and only pulled my weapon twice or so, and never on a traffic stop.

    The cop didn't seem to be out of control, which is a major reason I don't understand it. Up until he drew and shot the guy, both hands were pretty much in sight. He was officious, but didn't seem to be out of control.1
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,976 Senior Member
    All these folks getting shot/mistreated by cops have one thing in common, they all argue with them and refuse to comply with their instructions. Then the situation escalates off the chart.

    Most are not little angels and they said this latest one had 70 previous arrests on his record.

    No excuses for some of the behavior exhibited by police. If nothing else we should all remember when confronted, stopped in the street or the side of the road by a cop IS NOT the time to argue and get belligerent. Things can head south quick from a relatively minor infraction.

    I also think Ferguson, Baltimore and other incidents and follow on disturbances have given some folks a false sense of empowerment where they feel it is OK to get non-compliant with police and push disobedience to the limits, it is not.

    It could and has ended up costing them their lives.

    Dead is Dead, doesn't matter to them if charges are filed later against the police.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,976 Senior Member
    This is a Lose Lose situation for all involved.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,472 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    I also think Ferguson, Baltimore and other incidents and follow on disturbances have given some folks a false sense of empowerment where they feel it is OK to get non-compliant with police and push disobedience to the limits, it is not.

    It could and has ended up costing them their lives.

    Dead is Dead, doesn't matter to them if charges are filed later against the police.

    Well put, Chief. I agree 100%.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,017 Senior Member
    Not that it matters, but I think I heard that the shooting victim was the father of TEN kids?
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,037 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    All these folks getting shot/mistreated by cops have one thing in common, they all argue with them and refuse to comply with their instructions. Then the situation escalates off the chart.

    Most are not little angels and they said this latest one had 70 previous arrests on his record.

    No excuses for some of the behavior exhibited by police. If nothing else we should all remember when confronted, stopped in the street or the side of the road by a cop IS NOT the time to argue and get belligerent. Things can head south quick from a relatively minor infraction.

    I also think Ferguson, Baltimore and other incidents and follow on disturbances have given some folks a false sense of empowerment where they feel it is OK to get non-compliant with police and push disobedience to the limits, it is not.

    It could and has ended up costing them their lives.

    Dead is Dead, doesn't matter to them if charges are filed later against the police.

    While the victim argued with the cop, he didn't get belligerent. A LOT of people argue with cops, maybe even most do when getting a ticket. From what I heard, this was a low-grade argument at that. As they say in the Verbal Judo classes, being a cop is in the " taking business."

    While I agree people should be compliant, cops shouldn't be shooting people for opening the doors of their cars. I see nothing that was in the least way mitigating the cop's position.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,345 Senior Member
    It appears like the cop tried to reach in to either turn off the ignition, or maybe to try and put the vehicle in park. I don't know what DuBose was attempting to do, maybe he was trying to drive off, maybe he was doing something else. Why this escalated so quickly, I think, gives us a little window into the mindset of both officers and the people they deal with. It seems to me that these interactions are a lot more adversarial than they need to be. I mean this across the board, not just white cop/black suspect interactions. My own (admittedly limited) experiences bear this out. The days of 'Officer Friendly' seem to be behind us. It may be cliché, but the older cops seem to be MUCH easier to deal with, while 'younger' ones (say, mid thirties, maybe younger) are the ones sporting the attitudes. I understand that a cop's attitude is often determined by the actions of the people he/she is dealing with, so I'm not laying all the blame at the feet of our police. Folks in general seem to be less tolerant of those around them. Cops with attitudes may just be a symptom of that...:uhm:
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,017 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    Saw the video of the shooting, just short of him shooting the guy in the head. I'm convinced the UofC officer should have been arrested and fired. There was absolutely no threat to him. The driver was merely obeying the officer's order to remove his seat belt. The tone of the victim was not insulting or hostile, not that that would justify a shooting.

    I don't understand the reasons behind the officer shooting at all. He's under $1million bail, which he won't make.

    He did make bail.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,656 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    He's under $1million bail, which he won't make.
    Actually, my local news say he IS out on bond
    guess I should have read all the replies before posting
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,037 Senior Member
    I only saw the video twice, and didn't see the officer reach in, or at least I don't remember him doing so. I saw the victim start to open his door and the officer backed up and shot. Maybe I missed it.

    Yeah, he made the bail. I don't see how; I think he's a flight risk. Someone had to drop some serious cash.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,887 Senior Member
    I thought the officer tried to open the door and the driver try and close it and castigate the officer, then then officer backed up.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,037 Senior Member
    If anything, I think this thread demonstrates the power or lack of power of memory. You can find the video on the net, look at it carefully and see how our collective memories stack up.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,253 Senior Member
    Just watched it again - - - -at 2:10 of the attached video, the driver (or maybe the cop?) unlatches the door, then the driver recloses it and starts the engine. The cop backs up and starts firing. The driver has one hand on the door, and the other on the ignition key, both hands in plain view of the body cam, and apparently, the cop. I'd have a hard time defending the officer's actions to a jury!

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/police-video-deadly-cincinnati-shooting-released-32762162

    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,887 Senior Member
    just saw the scene again, the cop has his hand on the exterior door latch when the door cracks open
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    From what the video shows (I've seen the unedited version that shows the shot to the head) the murder charge should stick. Even if he was attempting to drive off(car didn't move until he was shot), a missing front plate and not having his driver's license on him is pretty thin reason to draw a weapon, much less shoot him in the head. Already had his license plate # and description of vehicle. Just put out a warrant for his arrest and be done with it if he drove off.

    I agree. If the cop was trapped in the window -- which does happen occasionally -- then yes, shoot. But under the circumstances that I see via the video -- and I may be wrong, often am -- the cop shot the guy without proper cause. Not necessarily murder but homicide, likely 2nd degree or similar.

    Sorry, but cops have to be properly cognizant of their role and must align themselves with proper police procedure -- an ordinary citizen might over-react but a cop has to stay straight. Tough.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,037 Senior Member
    I don't see any reason to shoot. The cop was backing up and clear of the car when he shot. I think. I won't watch the video again, and maybe I'm wrong, but escaping from a traffic ticket? What's up with that? I guess it depends on the law in Ohio on what's murder and what's 2nd Degree homicide. Or manslaughter here in GA. Murder, here, is with "malice and aforethought" or "with an abandoned heart." Which that may be, I'm not a lawyer.

    A cop has to take a chance every now and then. Especially a slight chance, like this MAY have been. Better to take a slight chance than to wind up in jail with a $1 million dollar bond and blood on your hands. Seems like his arm wasn't trapped inside the vehicle and if he had time to draw, he could have had time to get out of there. I just don't see it. A University cop, used to dealing with Fraternity drunks and student burglaries of condom machines. Wanting to move up to the big time. I'd like to know his record of arrests/tickets.

    I'm pro cop. But not pro bad cop.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    I would like to know what Massad Ayoob has to say about it.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    I would like to know what Massad Ayoob has to say about it.
    Why?
    It's because I hate Trump.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Because he knows a helluva lot more about such matters than I do,
    I don't think the media can supply all pertinent facts in the case.

    It looks like he is guilty, however, I was not there or privy to lots of facts that may or may not be supppresed due to the ongoing investigation.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    Saw the video of the shooting, just short of him shooting the guy in the head. I'm convinced the UofC officer should have been arrested and fired. There was absolutely no threat to him. The driver was merely obeying the officer's order to remove his seat belt. The tone of the victim was not insulting or hostile, not that that would justify a shooting.

    I don't understand the reasons behind the officer shooting at all. He's under $1million bail, which he won't make.
    .

    How so ?
    He needs to post a bond of 10%, or $100,000 often raised by Police unions and others, even George Zimmerman, a non LEO received lots of donations.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    Because he knows a helluva lot more about such matters than I do,
    I'm sure he knows more than me as well, but I don't need Mr. Ayoob to tell me the cop is and under trained, trigger happy, maroon, that needs to be put away for a long time.
    It's because I hate Trump.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,037 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    .

    How so ?
    He needs to post a bond of 10%, or $100,000 often raised by Police unions and others, even George Zimmerman, a non LEO received lots of donations.

    Probably less than 10% on that much money. I'm not sure the UofC police has a union, or even Cincinatti, for that matter. And I haven't heard Unions stepping up and defending him. Although someone did, apparently. With Zimmerman, it was a question of SYG although if I remember, that wasn't used in the defense. An assault on Zimmerman. Same thing with the cop in Ferguson who was attacked by a huge thief.

    I don't see an assault here.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,037 Senior Member
    Actually, just learned his father posted the bond, which was indeed $100,085. I guess the $85 was the bond fee. Must be a rich daddy.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,563 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    I agree. If the cop was trapped in the window -- which does happen occasionally -- then yes, shoot. But under the circumstances that I see via the video -- and I may be wrong, often am -- the cop shot the guy without proper cause. Not necessarily murder but homicide, likely 2nd degree or similar.

    Sorry, but cops have to be properly cognizant of their role and must align themselves with proper police procedure -- an ordinary citizen might over-react but a cop has to stay straight. Tough.
    I'm confident nearly all members here are familiar with the difference between homicide and murder (Homicide. The killing of one human being by another human being.). It is still refreshing to have someone note it. The low information masses using them interchangeably can be blamed on TV and movies portraying homicide detectives always investigating murders.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,887 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    Actually, just learned his father posted the bond, which was indeed $100,085. I guess the $85 was the bond fee. Must be a rich daddy.
    Sometimes property can be put up for bond
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,037 Senior Member
    Yeah, but it has to be paid for and with a clear deed.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
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