Gun Free Zones, what if?

Diver43Diver43 Senior MemberPosts: 8,669 Senior Member
What if you find yourself in a gun free zone such as a movie theater, park, mall etc, and you find yourself in a position needing to use your firearm? You ignored the signs not wanting to take a chance, but now the thing we hope never happens , happens. You shot the bad guy before he could hurt anyone else. What happens now?
Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
«1345

Replies

  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,865 Senior Member
    In this state, in malls, theaters etc, the signs carry VERY LITTLE legal weight.
    If the catch me carrying (and I do) they can ask me to leave. If I don't they can have me removed and charged with trespassing. If I do leave when asked, that's the end of it.

    SO, actually having to use it, the cops aren't going to let me leave for a little while, but having it on me PROBABLY won't be an issue and there shouldn't be any legal issues just from me having it.
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • Gator MonroeGator Monroe Banned Posts: 655 Senior Member
    If I come out alive (After using my EDC weapon ) from a gun free zone , I'm pretty sure my CCW would be yanked , after that it could go downhill farther)
  • Fat BillyFat Billy Senior Member Posts: 1,813 Senior Member
    Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozJTenNzUKM
    Enjoy. Easy solution. :up: Later,
    Fat Billy

    Recoil is how you know primer ignition is complete.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,429 Senior Member
    I'm looking for a "free gun zone"- - - - -I'm tired or paying through the nose for them!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • N320AWN320AW Senior Member Posts: 648 Senior Member
    Diver43 wrote: »
    What if you find yourself in a gun free zone such as a movie theater, park, mall etc, and you find yourself in a position needing to use your firearm? You ignored the signs not wanting to take a chance, but now the thing we hope never happens , happens. You shot the bad guy before he could hurt anyone else. What happens now?

    Here is what is going to happen, since you asked.

    First, the cops are going to do a thorough examination of what actually happened. Remember, you just SHOT someone. The chance of your going home to your comfy bed are slight. You will be taken into custody, transported from the scene and interrogated. IF they find you acted in an appropriate manner, which will probably require several witnesses, you can go home. However, this can take days.

    The matter of a "gun free zone" will be the last thing the investigators are going to be concerned with. THAT will come up later, for sure. I hate to use the term, but being a HERO or something like that does not and will not diminish any law you have broken.

    Food for thought.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,968 Senior Member
    Dellrose,.......
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,070 Senior Member
    It's important for you to know your State's laws....in many nowadays "gun buster" signs no longer carry the force of law...on the other side of the coin....in some places, there are places where carrying is prohibited by law and that varies from state-to-state...you could expect to see the inside of a jail cell for defending yourself there...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,855 Senior Member
    There'll be somebody that's going to "We don't care if you saved 50 people, a hundred people you broke the law and had a gun where you shouldn't have. There'll be others that will take the other side of the street. It depends on how many on each side and the Judges in your area. But there will be some who rightly recognize you as the hero you are and realize you risked everything and saved some lives. It's a hard call and which way things go is a crap shoot. Our DA here is kind of a libtard, but he's a nice guy and would probably cut you some slack if you didn't get wise with him. But the bottom line is, if I have it with me and I'm put in a position where I'm backed into a wall and it's life or death, I'm taking life. In other words, I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Okay, I'm talking about the sort of "no gun" place as Diver describes, like a privately owned business (movie theater) that puts up the sign, not the specifically prohibited places like a courtroom or an airport secure zone.

    In Texas, the gun free zone thing, worst case, is a misdemeanor and only then if you're spotted carrying and are asked to leave, and you do not. We all know this already.

    I checked the concealed carry law in Texas and here, there's a special disclaimer: If you ARE carrying in a commercial "no gun" zone (movie) and you are confronted by a situation in which you need to defend yourself -- in other words, a "legit" self defense situation, then your having been carrying is specifically defensible.

    In short, you're off the hook.

    Groucho paints a bleak picture to this but it's not correct for Texas or any other "okay" gun state. His statement that you'll be held in jail for several days after a "good shoot" is simply not correct. Okay, maybe in Nuu Yawk or wherever, but certainly not in a fairly pro-gun state. For ALL the civilian defense shootings I've read about here in Texas, unless the shooter was otherwise a felon or whatever, the shooter civilian was never detained or arrested at all, let alone held for several days. Now Groucho may be talking about where he lives, so I'm sure his statement is true for his state or city. Not so in Texas however. Here, as in most other gun-friendly states, your being a HERO will definitely be a plus -- the cops likely will give you a medal.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,657 Senior Member
    In my part of the world, if a DA were to actively prosecute a citizen for successfully defending against a thief or a violent criminal, he might as well move somewhere and begin his political career all over, again. Presenting the facts to a grand jury would be acceptable in cases where the righteousness of the defender's actions was unclear to the investigating officers. Keeping the peace is a partnership between good citizens and lawmen, here, and they know it and appreciate it.

    I hope that never changes, because it benefits everyone but the criminal.

    EDIT: Here is an example of how state and local government treats citizen intervention in the defense of others.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyler_courthouse_shooting
  • Gator MonroeGator Monroe Banned Posts: 655 Senior Member
    In ANY Deep blue State you would be vilified in local media and Law enforcement would show little mercy .
  • Elk creekElk creek Senior Member Posts: 5,751 Senior Member
    Judged by 12 or carried by 6, you make the call!
    Aim higher, or get a bigger gun.
  • Gator MonroeGator Monroe Banned Posts: 655 Senior Member
    Elk creek wrote: »
    Judged by 12 or carried by 6, you make the call!

    The wave of the future ...
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Perhaps your friend Groucho was detained after his personal defense encounter(s) We see how the Military prosecutes personal defense if Military personnel illegally use personally owned firearms.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    Presenting the facts to a grand jury would be acceptable in cases where the righteousness of the defender's actions was unclear to the investigating officers.

    Yeah, my point exactly. If there are extenuating circumstances, such as if you are a semi-thug and shot another semi-thug during a hassle, you'd likely be held. But "Mr. Average Citizen with a CHL?" nope. Not in Texas, at least.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    In ANY Deep blue State you would be vilified in local media and Law enforcement would show little mercy .

    Of course. Which is one reason I live in Texas.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    Perhaps your friend Groucho was detained after his personal defense encounter(s) We see how the Military prosecutes personal defense if Military personnel illegally use personally owned firearms.

    No idea what N320AW (Groucho, his avatar) is talking about, a "good shoot" and 100% civilian self defense shooting where the person is detained for several days, even it occurs in a "no gun" commercially-posted area.

    But I also don't know where he lives. He may live in a rust belt liberal dominated area, which in that case may be what happens, and is another reason to move.

    He didn't mention military so I excluded that from consideration. Active military people have a different code of conduct, just as do active LEOs. But the general question dealt with a total civilian, I think.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • N320AWN320AW Senior Member Posts: 648 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    No idea what N320AW (Groucho, his avatar) is talking about, a "good shoot" and 100% civilian self defense shooting where the person is detained for several days, even it occurs in a "no gun" commercially-posted area.

    But I also don't know where he lives. He may live in a rust belt liberal dominated area, which in that case may be what happens, and is another reason to move.

    He didn't mention military so I excluded that from consideration. Active military people have a different code of conduct, just as do active LEOs. But the general question dealt with a total civilian, I think.

    Sam you're missing the point. By the way, I live in Georgia . . . a VERY gun friendly state.

    Are you saying that in the event of a shooting the officers who respond are going to do just a cursory examination at the scene and tell you, "See ya later. We'll call you if we need you." That ain't gonna happen when someone is dead at your feet. Even in Texas. They will have detectives on the scene and if they find that your actions were questionable, you're not going home right away. Savvy? I already said that the no-gun area has little consequence compared to the shooting itself.

    When I worked for the Helen, GA PD our Chief was shot one morning just after I got off duty. He traveled to a store about 10 miles away to see a gal who worked there. The girls husband was waiting for him in his pickup truck. He went in to the store and assaulted Chief Medforth with an iron poll. The struggle ended up outside the door where Medforth was reaching for his revolver. The attacker shot him in the stomach. Medforth tried to crawl under his parked car. He died at the scene.

    The attacker was arrested and spent 6 months in the county jail. A grand jury was convened. His actions were ruled by the DA as a "crime of passion." He was released.

    I was the last person to talk to him on the radio before he was MURDERED.

    ARTICLE:
    https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=348&dat=19960220&id=QQBNAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ZzMDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6617,5167817&hl=en
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    The operative word is "questionable" in your reply. Of course if there's a problem, yes they will likely detain you.

    Some years ago I came damn near shooting a guy who had approached me, and thankfully he decided to run and I thankfully didn't have to fire. But it was close. And the cops who investigated wrote it all down, and we even rode around for a while looking for the 2 guys who ran off. The cops were friendly and cordial and one of them even told me that I should have fired anyway. And after the ride-around, they thanked me and said goodbye.

    I have read all sorts of civilian shooting reports in the area and in no place were the "good shooter" people detained, even overnight. IF the situation was of course clear and clean and there were no odd circumstances. But in a "good shoot" the cops question the shooter and say bye bye.

    Naturally, in Texas, ALL intentional shootings, justified or not, are required to be presented to the grand jury. What happens in "good" self defense cases, the county attorney on advice from the investigating cops declines to seek an indictment and the case is closed.

    The event you relate is tragic but it's not what we're discussing. This was a dispute where a man was ambushed and it was personal, not random. Regardless of the unfair circumstances, this case is not relevant.

    We're talking about a 100% civilian who finds himself in the middle of a thug attack, maybe a robbery or whatever, maybe a jihad thing, maybe just a nutjob, and the licensed gun carrier civilian shoots the thug dead.

    I have not read about a civilian shooting a jihad or nutjob but there are plenty of cases here where total civilians shoot an attempted mugger or robber or whatever, and after answering some questions, the cops let the guy go home. And yes, this is a "clean" shoot with no unusual circumstances.

    If under this sort of a shoot where you live, the cops detain the civilian shooter for several days, well, things are different here.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,070 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Okay, I'm talking about the sort of "no gun" place as Diver describes, like a privately owned business (movie theater) that puts up the sign, not the specifically prohibited places like a courtroom or an airport secure zone.

    In Michigan, before I moved, there were several privately owned businesses that were prohibited by law....

    Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian

    Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.

    Sports arena or stadium

    A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises

    Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials allow concealed weapons

    An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more

    A hospital

    A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university

    A Casino

    "Premises" does not include the parking areas of the places listed above.
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Texas has similar places, just fewer of them listed.

    These are prohibited by law. But the "no gun" signs that businesses put up are different, in that taking a firearm into the place is a misdemeanor, so this is a little different.

    My biggest gripe on the Tx carry law is not being able to carry in a tavern. Not because of problems in the bar, but heading out to the parking lot late night after seeing a band that I enjoy.

    Far as the "no gun" signs in places like a movie theater? Mmm, my carrying a gun there is a choice I may or may not make. My bad. And despite this latest theater problem, my principal concern is about getting to my car in the big unfriendly parking garage after the movie. But with this problem recently? Maybe being armed at the movie isn't a bad idea, sign or no sign.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    I carry everywhere I know I won't be scanned or wanded, gun-free zones be darned. But if I happen to be in one when something goes down, I won't be intervening to save anyone except myself and the people in my party. I am not a wannabe hero. Instead, I'm (we're) diving for cover and staying put until it's over. I might possibly discreetly draw my weapon, but I would fire only if a James Holmes type character was about to have me in his sights.
  • N320AWN320AW Senior Member Posts: 648 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    The operative word is "questionable" in your reply. Of course if there's a problem, yes they will likely detain you.

    Some years ago I came damn near shooting a guy who had approached me, and thankfully he decided to run and I thankfully didn't have to fire. But it was close. And the cops who investigated wrote it all down, and we even rode around for a while looking for the 2 guys who ran off. The cops were friendly and cordial and one of them even told me that I should have fired anyway. And after the ride-around, they thanked me and said goodbye.

    I have read all sorts of civilian shooting reports in the area and in no place were the "good shooter" people detained, even overnight. IF the situation was of course clear and clean and there were no odd circumstances. But in a "good shoot" the cops question the shooter and say bye bye.

    Naturally, in Texas, ALL intentional shootings, justified or not, are required to be presented to the grand jury. What happens in "good" self defense cases, the county attorney on advice from the investigating cops declines to seek an indictment and the case is closed.

    The event you relate is tragic but it's not what we're discussing. This was a dispute where a man was ambushed and it was personal, not random. Regardless of the unfair circumstances, this case is not relevant.

    We're talking about a 100% civilian who finds himself in the middle of a thug attack, maybe a robbery or whatever, maybe a jihad thing, maybe just a nutjob, and the licensed gun carrier civilian shoots the thug dead.

    I have not read about a civilian shooting a jihad or nutjob but there are plenty of cases here where total civilians shoot an attempted mugger or robber or whatever, and after answering some questions, the cops let the guy go home. And yes, this is a "clean" shoot with no unusual circumstances.

    If under this sort of a shoot where you live, the cops detain the civilian shooter for several days, well, things are different here.

    "The operative word is "questionable" in your reply. Of course if there's a problem, yes they will likely detain you." That is what I have been saying all along.


    "But in a "good shoot" the cops question the shooter and say bye bye." A "good shoot"? Just how long is law enforcement going to take to figure that out? Your word for it? Doubtful in the least. They want EVIDENCE. BTW, never heard of a "good shoot."

    "Naturally, in Texas, ALL intentional shootings, justified or not, are required to be presented to the grand jury. What happens in "good" self defense cases, the county attorney on advice from the investigating cops declines to seek an indictment and the case is closed." Really? What is an INTENTIONAL SHOOTING? In Georgia that can easily be construed as malice aforethought. In the case of a death of someone here . . . that is possibly murder.

    Sam, I understand what you are saying, but having been "on the streets" as an LEO for many, many years I am very knowledgeable as to how the system works. Every officer, at the end of his/her shift are required to fill out incident reports. Can you just imagine a call an officer gets to go to a shooting, talks to the nice guy who did it, admits to it, and the case is closed. No way. The officer is required to complete a properly executed IR. If the officer states the "good shooter" (your words) says he just defended himself that case is NOT going to be closed as you say. Surely the best way for the officer to handle his report is to finish it saying the case was turned over to the investigator(s).

    I'm all for free carry of a sidearm or anything else for my personal protection. But, I have been on both sides and know of what I speak.

    Groucho
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Okay, "intentional" means that you deliberately shot someone, period. This dismisses accidental discharges which of course may get you arrested anyway, but are a different pot of stew.

    In Texas, any time someone intentionally shoots and kills someone, that case is mandatory to be presented to the grand jury. This includes self defense situations when the defender was attacked by firearm in his own home by a robber who kicked in the door, and whatever. Add all the justified reasons you wish, regardless of having 25 witnesses who testify that old granny was properly defending herself from vicious attack by four armed thugs, etc. regardless, it goes to the grand jury because she deliberately shot and killed someone. Even if justified.

    Incident report is true. All cops file a report on the situation. But in most self defense shootings, no arrest is made nor is the shooter detained. They just are not. Maybe where you live but not in Texas. Of course, I'm saying this for a totally clean and justified shooting, granny vs the bad guys.

    But assuming there are no oddball circumstances, the shooter is just interviewed and let go. They of course take the firearm into evidence and it's kept until the grand jury decides. But otherwise the cops do not detain the person at all UNLESS something is hinky, like maybe a drug deal gone bad and one thug shoots the other. Then of course the cops jump onto the shooter full force.

    But I'm talking about the EXACT scenario that started this thread: You take your family to the movies, and they've got a "no gun" sign on the door. You're licensed and even though concealed licensees are still under the "no gun" rule you ignore it. And some thug or jihadist or nutjob attacks and you're threatened and fear for your life, and you draw and fire, killing the thug.

    In this case the cops here in Texas will NOT detain the shooter except of course for a sit-down with the homicide cops working the case, and IF all things seem okay, the shooter is released on his cognizance and of course is subject to further interviews, but in a clear-cut case of justified self defense, the shooter is released and sometimes is privately told he's a hero.

    Maybe where you live it's different and I don't challenge this, but I'm speaking about how these things are handled in Texas.

    Now I'm criticized by some here for actually having real life armed confrontations over the years, strangely so, being a 100% total civilian but I've had maybe a half dozen near-shooting incidents in Texas. In ALL cases I was thoroughly questioned, of course, and of course my ID checked out and I've got a clean slate. So I was asked if I could talk more if they wanted the next day or so, and on one of these incidents, the case cop came by my house and we chatted some more about helping ID the suspects. Other than that, nuttin.

    Of course there was no gunfire and thankfully I didn't have to shoot. But regardless, it was close and I had lots of questions about the incident, careful queries and such, until I apparently satisfied the cop's needs for the report, and that was it. And for each incident, I was treated with decency and respect, and never harshly at any time by any of the officers. We shook hands, they gave me their cards, and wished me a quiet night. And I'm a nobody. But the circumstances of the incident were patently obvious and I'm no dumbo -- I know how cops can be irritated and I took pains to not do that. I love the cops.

    Now if there were an actual shooting, and that one late night it was very near happening, I'd have obviously been questioned thoroughly not by the "beat" cops but by homicide, which is understandable. So that night, the questioning and interview took maybe an hour, and had there been a shooting, it would have probably gone on till dawn. That I understand.

    But you said that if there is a justified shooting (granny at the movies vs the armed thug, say), granny would be in custody for days?

    Not here. And if she'd been taken into custody where you live, fine, that's your knowledge of the procedures where you live. Texas is I suppose different.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,104 Senior Member
    N320AW wrote: »
    Here is what is going to happen, since you asked.

    First, the cops are going to do a thorough examination of what actually happened. Yes. Remember, you just SHOT someone. The chance of your going home to your comfy bed are slight.Not exactly. You will be taken into custody, transported from the scene and interrogated. Interviewed. An interrogation is aggressive and uses intimidating behavior, generally. IF they find you acted in an appropriate manner, which will probably require several witnesses, you can go home. However, this can take days. Not without formal charges it won't. You cannot be detained in a station or or jail without cause to do so. You will actually likely go home later the same day if witnesses corroborate your story. Heck, even if there are very few witnesses you probably won't be arrested.

    The matter of a "gun free zone" will be the last thing the investigators are going to be concerned with. Super true. THAT will come up later, for sure. I hate to use the term, but being a HERO or something like that does not and will not diminish any law you have broken. Homicide is not always contrary to law. Justifiable homicide, for instance. If no probable cause can be found for murder--which in all cases requires intent--then murder it shall not be.

    Food for thought.

    Not saying some blue state DA won't trump up some charges to offset his viagra usage that weekend, but it's less likely than you think.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • Gator MonroeGator Monroe Banned Posts: 655 Senior Member
    I carried to Catalina the other day (On the Catalina Express too)
  • N320AWN320AW Senior Member Posts: 648 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Okay, "intentional" means that you deliberately shot someone, period. This dismisses accidental discharges which of course may get you arrested anyway, but are a different pot of stew.

    In Texas, any time someone intentionally shoots and kills someone, that case is mandatory to be presented to the grand jury. This includes self defense situations when the defender was attacked by firearm in his own home by a robber who kicked in the door, and whatever. Add all the justified reasons you wish, regardless of having 25 witnesses who testify that old granny was properly defending herself from vicious attack by four armed thugs, etc. regardless, it goes to the grand jury because she deliberately shot and killed someone. Even if justified.

    Incident report is true. All cops file a report on the situation. But in most self defense shootings, no arrest is made nor is the shooter detained. They just are not. Maybe where you live but not in Texas. Of course, I'm saying this for a totally clean and justified shooting, granny vs the bad guys.

    But assuming there are no oddball circumstances, the shooter is just interviewed and let go. They of course take the firearm into evidence and it's kept until the grand jury decides. But otherwise the cops do not detain the person at all UNLESS something is hinky, like maybe a drug deal gone bad and one thug shoots the other. Then of course the cops jump onto the shooter full force.

    But I'm talking about the EXACT scenario that started this thread: You take your family to the movies, and they've got a "no gun" sign on the door. You're licensed and even though concealed licensees are still under the "no gun" rule you ignore it. And some thug or jihadist or nutjob attacks and you're threatened and fear for your life, and you draw and fire, killing the thug.

    In this case the cops here in Texas will NOT detain the shooter except of course for a sit-down with the homicide cops working the case, and IF all things seem okay, the shooter is released on his cognizance and of course is subject to further interviews, but in a clear-cut case of justified self defense, the shooter is released and sometimes is privately told he's a hero.

    Maybe where you live it's different and I don't challenge this, but I'm speaking about how these things are handled in Texas.

    Now I'm criticized by some here for actually having real life armed confrontations over the years, strangely so, being a 100% total civilian but I've had maybe a half dozen near-shooting incidents in Texas. In ALL cases I was thoroughly questioned, of course, and of course my ID checked out and I've got a clean slate. So I was asked if I could talk more if they wanted the next day or so, and on one of these incidents, the case cop came by my house and we chatted some more about helping ID the suspects. Other than that, nuttin.

    Of course there was no gunfire and thankfully I didn't have to shoot. But regardless, it was close and I had lots of questions about the incident, careful queries and such, until I apparently satisfied the cop's needs for the report, and that was it. And for each incident, I was treated with decency and respect, and never harshly at any time by any of the officers. We shook hands, they gave me their cards, and wished me a quiet night. And I'm a nobody. But the circumstances of the incident were patently obvious and I'm no dumbo -- I know how cops can be irritated and I took pains to not do that. I love the cops.

    Now if there were an actual shooting, and that one late night it was very near happening, I'd have obviously been questioned thoroughly not by the "beat" cops but by homicide, which is understandable. So that night, the questioning and interview took maybe an hour, and had there been a shooting, it would have probably gone on till dawn. That I understand.

    But you said that if there is a justified shooting (granny at the movies vs the armed thug, say), granny would be in custody for days?

    Not here. And if she'd been taken into custody where you live, fine, that's your knowledge of the procedures where you live. Texas is I suppose different.

    Thanks for your post on this intricate subject. I agree with you, for the most part, but maybe my LE experience creeps in a mite. My main concern is that your opinions about shooting someone is hypothetical. Nothing wrong with that at all. However, a LE officer arriving at a shooting incident is not going to take it lightly. The officers preliminary report of the incident has a lot of weight with the DA. I've sat before many grand juries . . . NOT in anyway to indict the accused, but to just relay the facts as I saw them.

    I think you and I are of the same frame of mind, however, your narratives seem to place Texas as an extremely liberal state when a life is taken.

    Groucho
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I will lawyer up to a level never seen before and become a landmark case of constitutional rights.

    Call Massad Ayoob too.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,281 Senior Member
    N320AW wrote: »
    Thanks for your post on this intricate subject. I agree with you, for the most part, but maybe my LE experience creeps in a mite. My main concern is that your opinions about shooting someone is hypothetical. Nothing wrong with that at all. However, a LE officer arriving at a shooting incident is not going to take it lightly. The officers preliminary report of the incident has a lot of weight with the DA. I've sat before many grand juries . . . NOT in anyway to indict the accused, but to just relay the facts as I saw them.

    I think you and I are of the same frame of mind, however, your narratives seem to place Texas as an extremely liberal state when a life is taken.

    Groucho

    Well it is legal to shoot someone robbing your neighbors house as long as it's night
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    N320AW wrote: »
    Thanks for your post on this intricate subject. I agree with you, for the most part, but maybe my LE experience creeps in a mite. My main concern is that your opinions about shooting someone is hypothetical. Nothing wrong with that at all. However, a LE officer arriving at a shooting incident is not going to take it lightly. The officers preliminary report of the incident has a lot of weight with the DA. I've sat before many grand juries . . . NOT in anyway to indict the accused, but to just relay the facts as I saw them.

    I think you and I are of the same frame of mind, however, your narratives seem to place Texas as an extremely liberal state when a life is taken.

    Groucho

    Okay, I'll cover the hypothetical issue just this once, and you may PM me but I won't discuss it further here...

    Age 23 I was involved in a real shooting in semi-rural Missouri near where I grew up in Kansas City. I was questioned for hours by the homicide investigators but never formally detained or charged, allowed to go home, and although I was later subpoenaed to a grand jury I never was called to testify. The shooting was ruled self defense and no charges were ever filed, and the case was closed. A civil lawsuit was filed but it was also dismissed.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
Sign In or Register to comment.
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Guns & Ammo stories delivered right to your inbox every week.