Spitez or hollows. I needs to know.

tubabucknut

The .243 thread here, and Jason's hijacked Mossberg Patriot thread got me hot and bothered about loading for my .243. I am interested in the 85 gr game kings. These come in the spitzer, or hollow point. What say you? Is there any difference in terminal performance? I am thinking deer and smaller with this.

Varmintmist

spz

snake284

tubabucknut wrote: »

The .243 thread here, and Jason's hijacked Mossberg Patriot thread got me hot and bothered about loading for my .243. I am interested in the 85 gr game kings. These come in the spitzer, or hollow point. What say you? Is there any difference in terminal performance? I am thinking deer and smaller with this.

Do you want big wounds or penetration. Sometimes Hollow points WILL penetrate, but often they will open up like a daisy and stop a few inches in, IF they don't come a part. A Spitzer will penetrate and in a Game King it will also expand usually quite nicely. I love Spitzer Game Kings. They have been my primary hunting bullet for years. But I don't leave out Pro Hunters either. They are great bullets in their own right. The original purpose with Boattails was longer range. They have less wind resistance due to the boat tail. But out to 300-400 yards you won't know any difference in Pro Hunter and Game King. I prefer Game Kings only because they tend to be just a bit more frangible, but I have used both and I like both.

BigDanS

The 85 gr bullet is light, and in a .243 will be making 3100 FPS + kind of velocity at muzzle, at 100 yards about 2900 FPS and at 200 yards, 2600 fps and is laser beam flat to 250 yards. The bullet is going to impact whatever at a high velocity and I would tend to think an HP would be better if you are shooting under 200 yards. I am afraid with my .243 that the bullet will just go "splat" at too high a rate of speed. I use the Speer SPBT. Because of the high velocity I think you want a tougher jacket / bonded core

D

tubabucknut

Thanks Varmint, snake, Dan.

Six-Gun

In a .243 Win, I'm going spritzer all day long. I like the hollowpoint variety in the 7mm WSM, where the slower, heavier bullet and heavier jacket will offer more controlled expansion. But in a notably faster 85 gr. load with a lighter bullet jacket, take the spitzer.

snake284

Six-Gun wrote: »

In a .243 Win, I'm going spritzer all day long. I like the hollowpoint variety in the 7mm WSM, where the slower, heavier bullet and heavier jacket will offer more controlled expansion. But in a notably faster 85 gr. load with a lighter bullet jacket, take the spitzer.

Hey Tuba, read this. Six gun nailed what I was trying to pull out of my hat. This is as plain as you can say it.

I have some 160 grain Sierra Game King HPBTs I haven't used yet. I was thinking of loading some for my .280. I was afraid they'd be too frangible for my 7 Mag.

Jayhawker

snake284 wrote: »

Sometimes Hollow points WILL penetrate, but often they will open up like a daisy and stop a few inches in, IF they don't come a part.

I've killed a bunch of deer with a 110 grain HPBT between 50 and 250 yards...and never saw either of the phenomenon you describe. In every case the hit resulted in complete shoot throughs with significant exit wounds....

"but often they will open up like a daisy and stop a few inches in"...I'd like to see some evidence of this claim

snake284

Jayhawker wrote: »

I've killed a bunch of deer with a 110 grain HPBT between 50 and 250 yards...and never saw either of the phenomenon you describe. In every case the hit resulted in complete shoot throughs with significant exit wounds....

"but often they will open up like a daisy and stop a few inches in"...I'd like to see some evidence of this claim

Sorry, but if something will blow up in a rabbit, I believe it will do it on a deer. A lot if this has to do with velocity as Sixgun pointed out. Maybe if you have a well constructed bullet at lower velocity it won't do it as often. Anyway, from what I've seen, that's my opinion. If your experience is different so be it.

Jayhawker

tubabucknut wrote: »

I am interested in the 85 gr game kings.

While you're looking a bullets...I suggest that you take a look at the 95 grain Hornady SST or the 105 grain AMAX.
In past years, I had good luck with 6mm 95 grainNosler Ballistic Tips - however they are about twice as pricey as the SST

tubabucknut

Thanks Jayhawker. When I bought the rifle it came with 300 A-max bullets. I will certainly be trying these as well. I know Zee has published a billion scientific photo essays on the efficacy of the A-max. I will consider the sst also.

snake284

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/07/10/us-army-is-considering-hollow-point-bullets-to-go-with-new.html

http://www.corneredcat.com/article/ammunition/are-hollowpoint-bullets-more-dangerous/

http://ammo.net/bullet-type/hollow-point-hp

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/07/robert-farago/breaking-u-s-army-switching-to-hollow-point-ammunition/

http://bearingarms.com/u-s-military-makes-monumental-shift-hollowpoint-pistol-ammunition/

Here's four stories on why most of us consider hollow points less likely to penetrate and go all the way through an animal and also expand to a higher degree than a more solid design.

Six-Gun

snake284 wrote: »

Hey Tuba, read this. Six gun nailed what I was trying to pull out of my hat. This is as plain as you can say it.

I have some 160 grain Sierra Game King HPBTs I haven't used yet. I was thinking of loading some for my .280. I was afraid they'd be too frangible for my 7 Mag.

I can promise you right now, they aren't too frangible. This cow elk was hit with that exact, 160 gr. HPBT GameKing bullet out of my 7mm WSM. Sierra tells you straight away in the product description that the hollowpoint in that larger bullet is not going to be an overly easy-opening, explosively expansive bullet like many folks might think. I got one clean, round exit hole with very little meat damage, as you can see in the second shot. Per the official product description...

https://www.sierrabullets.com/store/product.cfm/sn/1925/284-dia-7mm-160-gr-HPBT

Contrary to a usual assumption, this hollow point bullet is not particularly fragile. The nose opening is closed slightly to help **** initial upset, but even expansion is assured by four skives cut into the jacket.

breamfisher

snake284 wrote: »

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/07/10/us-army-is-considering-hollow-point-bullets-to-go-with-new.html

http://www.corneredcat.com/article/ammunition/are-hollowpoint-bullets-more-dangerous/

http://ammo.net/bullet-type/hollow-point-hp

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/07/robert-farago/breaking-u-s-army-switching-to-hollow-point-ammunition/

http://bearingarms.com/u-s-military-makes-monumental-shift-hollowpoint-pistol-ammunition/

Here's four stories on why most of us consider hollow points less likely to penetrate and go all the way through an animal and also expand to a higher degree than a more solid design.

I hate to point this out but....

those all concern pistol ammunition.

knitepoet

breamfisher wrote: »

I hate to point this out but....

those all concern pistol ammunition.

Don't confuse things with facts like that :nono:

Linefinder

I've had great luck with 95 grain NBT's in my 6mm. So has JerryBobCo in his .243. Between the two of us, we've shot antelope from 90 yards to 440, and pretty much every range in between. Bullet performance at both extremes couldn't have been better.

Mike

Jayhawker

snake284 wrote: »

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/07/10/us-army-is-considering-hollow-point-bullets-to-go-with-new.html

http://www.corneredcat.com/article/ammunition/are-hollowpoint-bullets-more-dangerous/

http://ammo.net/bullet-type/hollow-point-hp

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/07/robert-farago/breaking-u-s-army-switching-to-hollow-point-ammunition/

http://bearingarms.com/u-s-military-makes-monumental-shift-hollowpoint-pistol-ammunition/

Here's four stories on why most of us consider hollow points less likely to penetrate and go all the way through an animal and also expand to a higher degree than a more solid design.

You're comparing apples and oranges....

knitepoet

Jayhawker wrote: »

You're comparing apples and oranges....

as I said....

knitepoet wrote: »

Don't confuse things with facts like that :nono:

:tooth:

Jayhawker

knitepoet wrote: »

as I said....
:tooth:

I hadn't read down to your post yet before I started typing....

knitepoet

Jayhawker wrote: »

I hadn't read down to your post yet before I started typing....

You know I'm just yanking your chain, because I hoped I AT LEAST made you smile :tooth:

Six-Gun

Linefinder wrote: »

I've had great luck with 95 grain NBT's in my 6mm. So has JerryBobCo in his .243. Between the two of us, we've shot antelope from 90 yards to 440, and pretty much every range in between. Bullet performance at both extremes couldn't have been better.

Mike

I meant to ask you guys this a long time ago, but are those NBTs giving you complete pass-through or are they stopping short/showing up in the offside hide?

snake284

Well for one thing I don't look at a Ballistic tip as a classic hollow point design. From what I have seen when I recover them from animals, and I have done this at least twice, on a deer and a hog, they have a lot of mass around that hollowed point more so than I believe a classic hollow point would. That hole in the front with the plastic inset I believe is there only to speed up expansion, but not to hand grenade.

I also believed that the 160 grain Sierra Hollow points for my 7mms are beefier around the hole than a classic hollow point. That's just speculation on my part, I didn't dissect one.



As for the addresses I added above, I couldn't find many articles on hollow point rifle bullets. I did find a couple but one led into a discussion about pistol bullets too. The other one talked about both and was really anti hollow point. I'm not anti hollow point. I just think most hollow points are probably too frangible for hunting deer. I've seen deer that were shot with too frangible bullets and in at least two cases we had to track the deer down and finish it off.

Zee

Killed several pigs and an antelope with the 85gr BTHP-GameKing. Works like a champ.

That bullet and the 105gr A-Max are my Go-To 6mm bullets.

Jayhawker

Six-Gun wrote: »

I meant to ask you guys this a long time ago, but are those NBTs giving you complete pass-through or are they stopping short/showing up in the offside hide?

I've never had a shoot through with a NBT or an SST on deer...on boiler room hits they have entered, grenaded and homogenized the contents of the chest cavity...Never found an intact bullet either...only fragments - once I found a bullet base..Of course I have a tendency to run them a little fast

Jermanator

Snake-- the hollow point design can work both ways. The difference between a medium game bullet and a varmint bullet is the jacket thickness and the way it tapers. A hollow point designed to expand rapidly is going to suck for deer, but one designed to open up, expand some, then keep going without shedding too much mass will work awesome on deer.

I think what you are missing is that not all hollow point bullets act the same.

breamfisher

Jermanator wrote: »

I think what you are missing is that not all hollow point bullets act the same.

Kinda like not all tipped bullets are VMaxes?

tubabucknut

Thanks for all of the input.

Linefinder

Just goes to show you, you never know.

Jayhawker's never had a pass through with NBT's or SST's.

I've shot about 30 deer and five antelope with them and found jacket material on the offside in one deer. All the rest went completely through. At ranges from 80 yards to 440, at almost every angle you're likely to encounter. All the deer were taken with a .270, and all the antelope with a 6mm Rem.

Mike

Mike

bisley

In my opinion, a heart-lung shot with either is going to bleed a whitetail out in 15-30 seconds. He's either going to drop immediately from massive and immediate loss of blood pressure, or, more likely, bolt and run 10-50 yards before he faints and bleeds out completely. I can't say how far he will run with a straight double-lung shot, but if it damages the heart or major arteries close to it, tracking is not going to be necessary with a high velocity rifle shot in the right place.

bisley

cpj wrote: »

Oh get over yourself and your "putting the bullet in the right place " garbage. You are taking away excuses for why deer run off never to be found when shot....

I just do it to aggravate people who shoot little bitty deer a dozen times with a .45-70, when their little girls are killing giant bucks DRT with smaller-bore rifles.

shootbrownelk

Jayhawker wrote: »

I've killed a bunch of deer with a 110 grain HPBT between 50 and 250 yards...and never saw either of the phenomenon you describe. In every case the hit resulted in complete shoot throughs with significant exit wounds....

"but often they will open up like a daisy and stop a few inches in"...I'd like to see some evidence of this claim

I saw that happen once on a big mule deer buck that a friend shot in the shoulder with a .243 nosler ballistic tip, ugly shallow wound with no penetration. I killed it with a 30.06 and a nosler partition. I'm no fan of ballistic tips, I have no experience with Sierra's however. I like to stick with solid copper alloy bullets nowadays. I've never had one of them fail on me.