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Introducing the .430 SJS and My First Bear

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  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 wrote: »
    Have you shot targets for groups at 100 (or more) yds yet? Very nice autopsy photos, thanks.
    Thanks. I got a very informal 2" with that 4x scope. When I get the correct test barrel in, I will have a rifle set up for strain gage pressure testing and a 6-24x target scope. I will have a much better idea of the pressures I am running, be able to work up some reliable load data, and get real accuracy readings. I think my current load is running around 52,000 psi. The .308 case is rated for 60,000+.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • WeatherbyWeatherby Senior Member Posts: 4,953 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Yes.

    :tooth: being your first did the hair on the back of your neck get all tingly ?
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    Sounds like a winner! :) I have to say I am impressed with my Marlin X7 rifles as well. Pity Remington has decided to discontinue them.
    Remington screwed up with that one and keep pushing those turd 783's. Their loss! I will be working with Savages, Mossberg Patriots, and Ruger Americans too for platforms.
    BigDanS wrote:
    So what are you going to make out of the meat? Who is tanning your hide?
    I am thinking about doing hams with the back quarters, and doing the shoulders like pulled pork. Then of course I will have my bear loin, bear shank, and plenty of burger to make bear sausage.

    I am having a local taxidermist finish up the cape by skinning out the claws and head then doing the skull. Sivco Tanning, out of NY will do the tanning and rugging.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    Weatherby wrote: »
    :tooth: being your first did the hair on the back of your neck get all tingly ?
    Being in the middle of freaking NOWHERE-- where Yoopers call "Up North", with help over 30 minutes away if I was lucky, and no cell service? Potentially wounded bear, darkness quickly coming, and wolves in the area.... I could have easily got tingly in another way! That death moan is creepy.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    I take one night off and miss this. This is awesome Jerm.

    I really want to try some 180XTPs. Just for S&G, maybe even find a coyote.

    Now I am really excited for this.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 7,927 Senior Member
    You dirty dog! And you know what you do. :win:

    Congratulations!!!!!
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    There is also the .375 SJS (think a .375 Winchester shortened to 1.8"), .41 SJS, and the .500 SJS (that will exceed .500 S&W performance plus be in a bolt rifle platform).
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Being in the middle of freaking NOWHERE-- where Yoopers call "Up North", with help over 30 minutes away if I was lucky, and no cell service? Potentially wounded bear, darkness quickly coming, and wolves in the area.... I could have easily got tingly in another way!


    Afterwards, did ya walk down the road, side by each, and go drink a Strohs?

    And are we gonna have bear fajita's at the next SE shoot?
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • HvyMaxHvyMax Senior Member Posts: 1,786 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Full disclosure: I do intend to market the .430 SJS. I have an LLC formed, lines of credit, bank accounts, domain names purchased. It is currently not for sale. It is still in experimental stages, but I feel it is something that adds to the body of knowledge of this forum and has value in that way. Mods-- If I cross a line, please let me know. When I intend to market it, you will know it!

    The reason I developed this is because Michigan finally changed their laws regarding rifles in the lower half of the lower peninsula. For ages, all that was allowed was handguns with straight walled cases, .35 caliber and larger, shotguns, and muzzle loaders. Last year, they allowed rifles. The rule is that they have to be straight walled, .35 caliber or larger, and the case cannot exceed 1.8" in length. Indiana and Ohio have passed similar legislation for deer hunting. My intent is to market it at gun shows in the region so hunters have an alternative to lever action .44 mag rifles. My cartridge works in standard .308 bolt rifles. People in those areas can now hunt deer with bolt action rifles like God intended!

    I was talking about this years ago when they were only talking about making the change to the law. I put it on hold until they actually passed something. It was supposed to be a .45 caliber round. Come to find out, someone else had the same idea. That is now the .45 Raptor. Once I heard about that, I had to change gears and found that a .44 caliber bullet works great in a .308 case. The .430 SJS is essentially a longer version of the .44 Automag. Ballistically,it either meets or exceeds a .444 Marlin. My conservative load using Hornady 265gr FTX bullets exceeds .444 Marlin velocities at 2200fps.

    Lot of people developing loads for those areas. 357AR and 444 Biggun are a few.
    Wal Mart where the discriminating white trash shop.
    Paddle faster!!! I hear banjos.
    Reason for editing: correcting my auto correct
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    Afterwards, did ya walk down the road, side by each, and go drink a Strohs?

    And are we gonna have bear fajita's at the next SE shoot?
    We had no time for beers afterward. We didn't get finished until 4am. Kip had to work his day job at 7am and I had to drive back home afterward. I wound up pulling off at a rest area and getting a few winks half way home so I could finish the drive back safely. That was a long night!

    SE Shoot-- I am thinking of doing at least one shoulder like a pork butt and pulling it for you guys. So you will essentially be eating my bear butt!
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    HvyMax wrote: »
    Lot of people developing loads for those areas. 357AR and 444 Biggun are a few.
    I know about the .357-- that is a .223 case necked up to .357. That has some other name too. I can't recall. Yep, those law changes did spur quite a bit of wildcat activity!
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • HAWKENHAWKEN Senior Member Posts: 1,720 Senior Member
    Well done Jerm! I can see someone chambering that round in a handgun......robin
    I don't often talk to people that voted for Obama, but when I do I order large fries!
    Life member of the American Legion, the VFW, the NRA and the Masonic Lodge, retired LEO
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    HvyMax wrote: »
    Lot of people developing loads for those areas. 357AR and 444 Biggun are a few.


    Some are further along than others. The first person that has the best combination of good ballistics, availability of parent case and bullets, ease of forming cases, and availability of affordable platforms to use it in will be way ahead of all the others. From what I've been reading, Jerm seems to be a bit further along that many of the others.


    Congrats with all of it Jerm, and I hope it pans out for ya.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 12,621 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Thanks. I got a very informal 2" with that 4x scope. When I get the correct test barrel in, I will have a rifle set up for strain gage pressure testing and a 6-24x target scope. I will have a much better idea of the pressures I am running, be able to work up some reliable load data, and get real accuracy readings. I think my current load is running around 52,000 psi. The .308 case is rated for 60,000+.

    Here is to hoping that a custom barrel provides stellar accuracy:beer:
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    Pity Remington has decided to discontinue them. There are some .270 and 30-06 Marlin X7 rifles on GB right now for $250 new. Really an incredible buy.
    Davidson's Gun Genie still has quite a few of the short action ones in stock-- .243, 7/08, and .308. They are quoting me $330 OTD to have a new one sent to my LGS. Get them while you can kids! That is quite a rifle for the money.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Davidson's Gun Genie still has quite a few of the short action ones in stock-- .243, 7/08, and .308. They are quoting me $330 OTD to have a new one sent to my LGS. Get them while you can kids! That is quite a rifle for the money.

    Right now Palmetto State Armory is having a scratch and dent gun sale. There are a couple different X7s for $249 with a junk scope.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Kids... buy this!!! If you are woods hunters and 150 yards may as well be the moon.... while we all want to be Jack O'Connor and shoot across canyons to kill our prey, the reality is that most of my shots are within 50 yards (many under 20) but may need to take one at the extreme range of 100 yards. This 1-4x scope is perfect for woods hunting! I bought this scope for hunting season last year, but it was sent somewhere else by mistake and was in limbo for awhile. I had to buy a Leupold VX-III 1.5-5x locally so I could let my son use the Ruger 44/77 to hunt with last season.

    The VX-III is freaking awesome! That said, I was too lazy to switch it to the SJS and put the turkey scope on it instead. Want value? It is going for $217 at Midway right now...
    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/812958/leupold-vx-1-shotgun-scope-1-4x-20mm-turkey-plex-reticle-matte
    My hunting hours are 30 minutes before sunrise to 30 minutes after sunset. This scope allowed me to hunt that way in a darkened blind, in darkened woods. I could see just as well through the scope as I could with my naked eye. I shot my bear at 8:11-- 11 minutes before last legal light on the last day of hunting-- 19 minutes after sunset. People with lesser scopes and sights would have already been in the truck because they can't see crap in light like that. The scope was set at 1x. It weighs 9 ounces.

    I told y'all, the VX-1 is not junk. I've got a few of em and they transfer light well. Remember it wasn't 20 years back and the Same Level scope was one of Leupold's better ones. Coating's technology just took off about 15-20 years back. But that right there is a fine scope none the less. And it's more than up to any task within 300-400 yards.

    The VX-1 remember was the Vari X II, a really fine scope in its day. My way of thinking is if you're hunting where your shots are never over 300-400 yards or you limit yourself to that range, if you buy a more expensive scope you're spending money on quality and precision you will never use.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    The one I hunted with, I bought new-- I can't remember exactly how much, but cheap. I found another in .308 used at my LGS for $215. I snagged that puppy!
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • Big Al1Big Al1 Senior Member Posts: 7,823 Senior Member
    5090_zpsnlafluwj.jpg

    Very cool!! I like the round, sounds like a winner!! Now you have a new swizzle stick for your martini's!!
  • HvyMaxHvyMax Senior Member Posts: 1,786 Senior Member
    How does the rim compare to a 7.62x 39? If the bolt face is close enough you would only be a barrel away from a badass AR round. I am knocking around a 44mag AR. The magwell is big enough to accommodate the angle needed for an automatic or desert eagle mag. Might need to adapt a rifle mag for these though. Great idea starting with a round with a common bolt face.
    Wal Mart where the discriminating white trash shop.
    Paddle faster!!! I hear banjos.
    Reason for editing: correcting my auto correct
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    My cartridge uses .308 Winchester as the parent case. That, and we have been seating long so it feeds through standard .308 magazines and can fit more powder in the case without spiking pressures. The loads I was using have an overall length of 2.5" (which is fine as long as I keep the case itself to 1.8" or less). Anyway, it will be too long to work in an AR15 platform but should work great in an AR10.

    I have been trying to focus on the budget bolt rifles with the barrel nuts because they are so affordable, versatile, and easy to convert. An AR10/AR15 would certainly be fun, but the market is very limited, competitive, and expensive. I want something that Joe Sixpack can afford and take deer hunting. That, and an affordable lightweight bush gun that is easy to pack and carry.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • HvyMaxHvyMax Senior Member Posts: 1,786 Senior Member
    Yeah Savage and AR10's can be built reasonably inexpensively. Just need a lathe and a chamber reamer. Single shots would work as well. I guess there are plenty of Savage knockoffs out there as well.
    Wal Mart where the discriminating white trash shop.
    Paddle faster!!! I hear banjos.
    Reason for editing: correcting my auto correct
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    If this works out, X-caliber will fill the barrel orders for me that will come pre-chambered. Their thing right now is Savage replacement barrels and AR barrels, but as we have seen, they can do the Marlin barrels now and I will be sending them a Ruger American barrel, and a Mossberg Patriot barrel so they can get the threading right. As we speak, they are short chambering a Ruger 77 barrel for my test rifle.

    When everything is said and done, X-caliber will have the capabilities to crank out prefit barrels for all the lock nutted barrels on the market-- and that is not just for my own cartridge. So if someone wanted to build a Ruger American in .358, they will be able to call them up and order a prefit. It opens up a new world for kitchen table gunsmiths! No longer do they have to employ a gunsmith or have special tooling to build a custom rifle.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,890 Senior Member
    Glad to see this has worked out so well for you:applause:. Huge props for taking and idea from conception to completion:worthy:

    Sako
  • twatwa Senior Member Posts: 2,238 Senior Member
    Congrats on a great hunt and nice write up and pics, even bear pecker pics. (say that as fast as you can 5 times :jester:)
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 7,927 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    My cartridge uses .308 Winchester as the parent case. That, and we have been seating long so it feeds through standard .308 magazines and can fit more powder in the case without spiking pressures. The loads I was using have an overall length of 2.5" (which is fine as long as I keep the case itself to 1.8" or less). Anyway, it will be too long to work in an AR15 platform but should work great in an AR10.

    When I had my 338x284 built, I considered going to either 30 or 35 caliber, but eventually settled on 33. I wish that someone here (in this forum) would try using the .284 Winchester case and neck it up to .308. Probably wouldn't give you much more than you get with a .308, and less than an .06, but you would probably be the only kid on the block with one. Necking up to .358 might shorten the neck to much, so it's probably not a great idea.

    Regardless, it's a great feeling when someone you think up works out.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    Congrats on the bear Jerm. I hope the cartridge ventures go well. I would be interested in an an AR-10 upper.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,967 Senior Member
    Here is an SJS (not fire formed) w/ 240gr XTP next to a .44 Mag and same bullet.

    IMG_2079_zps0pu7vzbl.jpg
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    No joke...me want. Me want bad...
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Here is an SJS (not fire formed) w/ 240gr XTP next to a .44 Mag and same bullet.

    IMG_2079_zps0pu7vzbl.jpg

    :drool:
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
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