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My .430 SJS lives!

ZeeZee Senior MemberPosts: 24,508 Senior Member
Got her built last Friday and spent yesterday making loads so i could hit the range this afternoon.

.430%20SJS%20Range%20Report%2010-25-15%2024_zpsjmnouawx.jpg

Took the barrel off my .308 Winchester Savage Hog Hunter and put the 20" Stainless Heavy Magnum Contour barrel on as a replacement. Topped it with a 10x Leupold mark 3 scope for load development.

.430%20SJS%20Range%20Report%2010-25-15%2017_zps98kcejdq.jpg

The barrel is a right handy length and weight.

.430%20SJS%20Range%20Report%2010-25-15%2022_zpsvn3wtbek.jpg

With a cool hole in the end.

First order of business was to find a viable load for the 240gr Hornady XTP bullet. Using QL, we decided to test the following charges.

38.5gr H110
39.0gr H110
39.5gr H110
40.0gr H110

Bore sighted the rifle and fired 1 round with the 38.5gr charge at 50 yards to make sure I was on paper. Yes........I was hoping I'd have a face left after that round. I wore eye protection.

It was rather anti-climactic and recoil wasn't nothing! Adjusted the sight and moved to 100 yards.

First group did NOT give me warm fuzzies. About a 2.5" group. I was hoping for better. So, I moved on to the 39.0gr load.

.430%20SJS%20Range%20Report%2010-25-15%2028_zpsczmdo9v6.jpg

WOW! What a difference 1/2 a grain makes!! Now, we were on to something! Bullets were moving along at 2,354 fps.

Here is a video of the recoil.

http://vid26.photobucket.com/albums/c106/lovinmycaitlynn/Shooting/240gr%20XTP%20with%2039gr%20H110%202_zpsuokdf3ww.mp4

Not bad at ALL!

Then, I moved on to the 39.5gr load and groups went to crap again at 2.25" for a 3 shot group.

Finished the XTP bullets with the 40.0gr load and found the gem.

.430%20SJS%20Range%20Report%2010-25-15%2027_zpseofuayyg.jpg

Suckers are moving at 2,419 fps!

And they shoot some FLAMES!!

IMG_2778_zpsq53cfl2b.png

After those loads, I moved to the 325gr WFN-GC bullets. First off, they load catiwhompus in the cases as though off center. Still chambered in the rifle, but looked weird. Anyway, accuracy was unacceptable for me at 2" for the 35.0gr load and 2.25" for the 35.5gr load. Those were 3 shot groups. But, both loads threw a 4th round way off course to the tune of 2.5" away for the first load and 6" for the second. Then, I tried the 36.0gr load and only fired 2 rounds. they were 4.5" apart. Called it quits at that.

I have a little more work to do and I'm gonna kill a pig with the 240gr XTP bullets. Next weekend, maybe.

Note: I DID NOT bell any of the cases before seating the bullet. We were concerned that we were getting inconsistent case mouth tension due to no crimp. So, I treated the case like a bottleneck cartridge and VLD chamfered the case mouth. Then, just seated the bullets like a regular flat base rifle bullet.

Might try to test some 265gr FN XTP bullets as well this week.

I.........like..........the project.
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
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Replies

  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,973 Senior Member
    It's an interesting project.

    The loads bleed off energy quickly, at over 3150 FPE at muzzle, down to 2200 FPE at 100 yards and 1450 at 200 yards. With a 100 yard zero the drop at 200 is just 6 inches.

    Still at 200 yards it would put a hurtin' on almost anything.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    I am glad you gentlemen get to do all the real work on this. I fully expect to keep my dashing good looks while loading for this.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,508 Senior Member
    The cases fireformed nicely once fired. They will need to be trimmed back .005" as they all stretched to 1.8" in length. The max for the chamber. I don't want to play on that edge. So, I'll trim them back and see if they stretch on the second firing.

    01D8AE96-2952-48BD-915F-C1A23B71E9AA_zps9ji0kmy9.jpg
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    It's an interesting project.

    The loads bleed off energy quickly, at over 3150 FPE at muzzle, down to 2200 FPE at 100 yards and 1450 at 200 yards. With a 100 yard zero the drop at 200 is just 6 inches.

    Still at 200 yards it would put a hurtin' on almost anything.

    D

    I wouldn't even point it at anything beyond 150 yards, but that's about 75-100 yards father than most any deer I've shot in years. Now I have killed some hogs farther out, but that's the exception more than the rule. I could very well live with this cartridge. If I want to shoot at longer range, I have "OTHER"artillary.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,131 Senior Member
    Zee wrote:
    Note: I DID NOT bell any of the cases before seating the bullet. We were concerned that we were getting inconsistent case mouth tension due to no crimp. So, I treated the case like a bottleneck cartridge and VLD chamfered the case mouth. Then, just seated the bullets like a regular flat base rifle bullet.
    That is what I did and it seemed to work for me.

    I do want everyone to note: The loads Zee is using are preliminary only. They may or may not be above the 62,000 psi maximum pressure that the .308 parent brass cases are rated for. Actually, the loads we have been using are predicted by Quickload software to be closer to 52,000 psi. I have a barrel being made that will be set up with a strain gage and I have a machine and software that can get me some fairly reliable pressure readings. At this point, there is no good reason to push our luck and take unnecessary risks. With the baseline loads we have been using, I can work up to a true max load from there.

    That said, there may be a node that likes those cast bullets. We just haven't found it yet. Yet.

    Good shooting Zee!
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,508 Senior Member
    I looked in my Hodgdon manual. I am getting 24" barreled .444 Marlin velocities out of a 20" barreled .430 SJS. That's kinda cool! And consider, I am screaming those 240gr XTP bullets for what they are designed for. Don't see the need to push them any faster. Sub MOA accuracy and 2,400 fps with a 240gr Hornady XTP.

    Win!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Looks like a ballistic twin to the .444 Marlin with the loads Z was using. The .444 Marlin has more energy at 200 yards than a .44 Rem mag fired from a 4" bbl revolver at the muzzle according to this article.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.444_Marlin

    But Jerms creation is way more cool and has all kinds of possibilities from a bolt rifle that a lever can't and its best is yet to come.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,508 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Looks like a ballistic twin to the .444 Marlin with the loads Z was using. The .444 Marlin has more energy at 200 yards than a .44 Rem mag fired from a 4" bbl revolver at the muzzle according to this article.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.444_Marlin

    But Jerms creation is way more cool and has all kinds of possibilities from a bolt rifle that a lever can't and its best is yet to come.

    I'd like to see the Lever Action .444 Marlin that shoots sub MOA at 100 yards. :devil:
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,508 Senior Member
    Forgive my ignorance. What is the .430 SJS?


    A creation of our very own Jerminator.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,391 Senior Member
    So is that a .454 Casull bullet in .308 brass that was re-sized to accept it?

    Did I say the right?
    same diameter bullets as a 44 mag
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,508 Senior Member
    So is that a .454 Casull bullet in .308 brass that was re-sized to accept it?

    Did I say the right?

    .308 Win case cut down to 1.8" (Max) and blown out to accept a .44 cal bullet.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,861 Senior Member
    You're quite mad, you know.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,131 Senior Member
    Forgive my ignorance. What is the .430 SJS?
    It is a .308 Winchester case that has been necked up to 44 caliber (.430) bullets, then trimmed down to 1.80". So yea, it takes the same bullets a .44 magnum and a .444 Marlin does. The goal was to get .444 marlin ballistics or better. We have been doing that easily.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,131 Senior Member
    I quit doing that after my brother turned pro-brewer years ago. Me and him are building a (legal) distillery though...

    www.shawbrothersdistilling.com
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,131 Senior Member
    A patent is about useless. If they change one measurement, just a hair, they can get around that. My chamber and reamer dimensions are proprietary though. I own the only ones, and Dave Manson won't make them for anyone else without my authorization.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,508 Senior Member
    For those concerned about recoil after CPJ used his ultra light weight rifle, it is NOT an issue with my weight and contour. Easy to shoot. As you can see in the video.

    I'll get a rifle weight tomorrow.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    I'd like to see the Lever Action .444 Marlin that shoots sub MOA at 100 yards. :devil:

    Yes, I had that covered..................

    "But Jerms creation is way more cool and has all kinds of possibilities from a bolt rifle that a lever can't and its best is yet to come."
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Here is a cool read from Bear Tooth Bullets and yes they got some (the exception rather than the rule it appears) sub MOA with heavy bullets in a .444 Lever rifle, but the recoil was punishing and a bag of lead shot was used..........interesting.

    http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/28
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,131 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    A .44 Automag Long :tooth:
    Exactly!
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,131 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Here is a cool read from Bear Tooth Bullets and yes they got some (the exception rather than the rule it appears) sub MOA with heavy bullets in a .444 Lever rifle, but the recoil was punishing and a bag of lead shot was used..........interesting.

    http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/28
    Those 405gr cast have my attention. They shot like crap for them, but we have 1:20 twist in our barrels, not 1:38.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,570 Senior Member
    Way cool guys!
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    OK, that's what I remember. That mad scientist part of your brain should serve you well there.

    Patent that .430 SJS thing before it leaks out and becomes the next .300 Blackout. :wink:

    Unless you have the financial and legal backing to defend a patent, one should shy away from them.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    I'd like to see the Lever Action .444 Marlin that shoots sub MOA at 100 yards. :devil:

    ..............Right!!!! One of the first lever rifles I bought back in the early 1980's was a lever action marlin chambered for .444. I didn't reload back then just shot factory loads in it.. It wasn't bad for what is was.....Remember my sig. line: "It is what it is." Anyhow neat rifle Zee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Looks great!!!!!!
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,508 Senior Member
    Loaded up some 265gr Hornady Interlock Flap Point bullets and hit the range yesterday.

    265gr%20FP%20Range%20Day%201_zps4klh2flp.jpg

    Accuracy wasn't as good as the 240gr XTP, but for a 200 yard gun..........MORE than acceptable! Velocities from my 20" barrel are still on par with a 24" barreled .444 Marlin.

    265gr%20FP%20Range%20Day%208_zpsf8mqik5e.jpg

    265gr%20FP%20Range%20Day%205_zps6qlopq3y.jpg

    The interesting thing is that, even with a 1/2 grain difference in powder, these two loads have the same velocity. Primers did not look bad and extraction was perfectly fine. I think they would do a good job of stomping anything I'd be likely to hunt.

    But, science must go on. I've removed the 10x scope and mounted my AimPoint. At the request of the designer.........I've loaded some 240gr XTP bullets and am heading to the range now for sight in and water jug testing.

    Will try to kill a pig tonight or tomorrow night if all goes well.

    FULL MOON!!!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,131 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    FULL MOON!!!
    Out of concern for Wambli, Bullsi, Jayhawker, and Linefinder's ulcers, I am going to refrain from posting a photo of a full moon.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,508 Senior Member
    And I just got a call from a rancher friend who wants me to cull a couple of does with management tags. So, I may kill a doe with the SJS on Friday.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 11,138 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    And I just got a call from a rancher friend who wants me to cull a couple of does with management tags. So, I may kill a doe with the SJS on Friday.

    Dang Dude, you have opportunities that many of us dream of. In the name of Science, best of luck
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,131 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    And I just got a call from a rancher friend who wants me to cull a couple of does with management tags. So, I may kill a doe with the SJS on Friday.
    While I would love to see that happen, how about you wait until after this weekend to try it on deer? I am sure you have a whole list of other guns you need to try.
    :yuteseason:
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,508 Senior Member
    Noted.

    Die piggie!!!!!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,913 Senior Member
    Has anyone tried Lil Gun powder in the 430 SJS yet? Just curious.
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