Not yet. We are still working on getting solid data for H110. Once we do, we will move on to other powders.
I would think you would be looking at 444 marlin data. IMR 4198, or H 4895.
D
"A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
I would think you would be looking at 444 marlin data. IMR 4198, or H 4895.
D
The SJS has a lower case capacity so those powders are too slow to get optimum velocities. The trick is that lever action rifles are limited to about 45,000 psi because the cases will not extract reliably at higher pressures-- that is why you are only seeing one lever 454 Casull (65,000 psi) on the market and no others. We are using bolt action rifles that can handle and extract 65,000 psi loads without issue. To make up for case capacity, we can load the 430 SJS to higher pressures with faster burning powders and still get the same performance as the .444 Marlin. The loads we have been using are at a projected 52,000 psi. Once I get my barrel for pressure testing, I will be able to find the true upper limit for the cartridge which should exceed .444 ballistics.
Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
To give you an example, if we stuffed as much H4198 in the case as we could (30.1gr) we would only get about 2000fps using the 265gr Hornady FP that Zee just tested (at about 40,000psi). If we used H4895, we could fit 41.6gr in the case but we will wind up with a velocity of 1759fps and pressures at only about 25,000psi.
Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
The Red Dot obscures the pasters at that distance. I adjusted left after the first 3-shot group. Then came back half after the second 3-shot group. Calling it good. Didn't have a lot of ammo loaded.
Then, I set up 8 jugs at 50 yards to see what this bullet would do screaming 450 fps faster than the manufacturer recommended velocity.
Yeah.............I think it's a little fast there, Butch!
Recovered bullet weighed 133.7 grains with jacket/core separation.
Penetrated 3 jugs. Stopping in the third without touching the back. There were lead bits in the second jug as well. I'm thinking we are a little fast for that bullet. But, in the interest of science........I am going to shoot a pig with it anyway. Just hopefully further than 50 yards. We will see................I have 5 rounds left.
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
"A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
As an outsider, those look interesting but they have a BC of .138. Pretty sure a rock has the same BC.
I am guessing you could push those to 2600 fps, and over 3000 FPE at muzzle, but by 100 yards it will have dropped to 2000 fps and about 1800 fpe, and by 200 yards about 1500 FPS and 1000 FPE. Still more energy than most point blank .44 mags . Now, if they are accurate, you have a winner.
D
D
"A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
Dan-- I am not sure where you are going with the copper solid concept. Please explain? Is it because they tend to stay together with higher velocities? Environmental concerns?
With this cartridge, any acceptable bullet used for .444 Marlin is going to work great. While there is not a ton of choices, there are some good ones out there. We haven't scratched the surface on the variety yet.
Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
That's my thinking as well Dan. Might have to rethink that a bit if and when the change to an AR happens.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill
We can taper crimp them just like you would with any pistol cartridge that headspaces on the case mouth, but roll crimps are out. Lee makes them and I have one, I just haven't had a chance to play around with it at this point.
Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
Replies
Ok. Cool. Was just wondering. Seems like that would be a nice powder for that cartridge. Be waiting to see what yall can do with it. :up:
I would think you would be looking at 444 marlin data. IMR 4198, or H 4895.
D
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
Got her relatively zeroed at 50 yards.
The Red Dot obscures the pasters at that distance. I adjusted left after the first 3-shot group. Then came back half after the second 3-shot group. Calling it good. Didn't have a lot of ammo loaded.
Then, I set up 8 jugs at 50 yards to see what this bullet would do screaming 450 fps faster than the manufacturer recommended velocity.
WOW!!!!!
Video:
http://vid26.photobucket.com/albums/c106/lovinmycaitlynn/Shooting/240gr%2050yrd%20Test_zpsjzlpwvd6.mp4
Frames:
Yeah.............I think it's a little fast there, Butch!
Recovered bullet weighed 133.7 grains with jacket/core separation.
Penetrated 3 jugs. Stopping in the third without touching the back. There were lead bits in the second jug as well. I'm thinking we are a little fast for that bullet. But, in the interest of science........I am going to shoot a pig with it anyway. Just hopefully further than 50 yards. We will see................I have 5 rounds left.
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
As long as I don't hit bone on a large hog............it should deliver quite dramatic hydrostatic shock to the system.
D
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/249593/copper-only-projectiles-cop-solid-copper-bullets-44-special-430-diameter-200-grain-hollow-point-lead-free-box-of-50?cm_vc=subv249593
As an outsider, those look interesting but they have a BC of .138. Pretty sure a rock has the same BC.
I am guessing you could push those to 2600 fps, and over 3000 FPE at muzzle, but by 100 yards it will have dropped to 2000 fps and about 1800 fpe, and by 200 yards about 1500 FPS and 1000 FPE. Still more energy than most point blank .44 mags . Now, if they are accurate, you have a winner.
D
D
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
With this cartridge, any acceptable bullet used for .444 Marlin is going to work great. While there is not a ton of choices, there are some good ones out there. We haven't scratched the surface on the variety yet.
Oh, you mean a real pig? Awesome dude! I can't wait to see the field report.
Dad 5-31-13
No problems with the bullets staying in place?
Not that I'm aware.
That's my thinking as well Dan. Might have to rethink that a bit if and when the change to an AR happens.
Winston Churchill