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Great design/Bad Execution?

Uncle FesterUncle Fester Senior MemberPosts: 1,405 Senior Member
in General Firearms #1
In your opinion, what gun design held the most promise only to be foiled by horrible manufacturing/timing/other execution issues?

My nominee: Automag
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Replies

  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,810 Senior Member
    #2
    Judge
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  • wizard78wizard78 Senior Member Posts: 1,004 Senior Member
    #3
    Caseless ammo. I honestly believe that this is purposely being held back by law enforcement so they have better tracking info of what type of weapon is used in crimes. JMHO


    “When guns are outlawed, only patriots will have guns.”
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  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    #4
    That weird Chiappa under barrel revolver....the...Rhino?

    The FN Five-seveN...
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
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  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    #5
    wizard78 wrote: »
    Caseless ammo. I honestly believe that this is purposely being held back by law enforcement so they have better tracking info of what type of weapon is used in crimes. JMHO

    Bullet type lends more evidence to the type of firearm used than casings.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
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  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,086 Senior Member
    #6
    The Gyrojet and the Dardick....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
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  • FreezerFreezer Senior Member Posts: 1,812 Senior Member
    #7
    The WWI French Machine gun Chauchat and the Japanese WWII pistol Nambu. both were the worst weapons ever put into the hands of a soldier.
    I like Elmer Keith; I married his daughter :wink:
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  • Uncle FesterUncle Fester Senior Member Posts: 1,405 Senior Member
    #8
    Freezer wrote: »
    The WWI French Machine gun Chauchat and the Japanese WWII pistol Nambu. both were the worst weapons ever put into the hands of a soldier.

    But weren't they bad designs from the start?
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  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,395 Senior Member
    #9
    Freezer didn't read the question.

    I'm thinking for me, since I've shot the Automag a few times, it's top on my list as well. The outward design, was sleek, sexy and evoked everything a hand gunner would look for. In practice, the grip felt like a barely rounded 2X4 and it was a jam0matic. The switch barrel and caliber change option was far ahead of its time. It's too bad.
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
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  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    #10
    Ithaca pump shotguns. I know there are lot of them still around, but they should still be building them. I used one a few times when I was a teenager and I loved it. It was light weight and felt good.
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  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,521 Senior Member
    #11
    Also an electronic solenoid trigger can make a bullpup work without all the mechanical linkage lag that causes problems.
    Overkill is underrated.
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  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 11,138 Senior Member
    #12
    wizard78 wrote: »
    Caseless ammo. I honestly believe that this is purposely being held back by law enforcement so they have better tracking info of what type of weapon is used in crimes. JMHO

    I do not know why the technology has been held back and not used more. But having a Daisy VL rifle, I can say that it is not only unique, but surprisingly simple and easy to use. Not sure what re-loaders would think of it, but imagine making reloads by taking a bullet, attaching something resembling a small dab of clay to the end of it, let it dry, load and shoot.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
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  • wizard78wizard78 Senior Member Posts: 1,004 Senior Member
    #13
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    Bullet type lends more evidence to the type of firearm used than casings.

    Not if you if the bullet can't be found or you use accelerator bullets in conjunction with caseless components.

    https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTlNtd80w-yi2UeMHjMyahkIkrbvN65MQpnhAHio8612YIQYW6y

    http://www.ammo-one.com/sitebuilder/images/RemAccAd-240x227.jpg

    “When guns are outlawed, only patriots will have guns.”
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  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,521 Senior Member
    #14
    cpj wrote: »
    Nope. I haven't. And it's still a dumb idea. I don't want to rely on electronics for any weapon.
    So... your SJS has backup iron sights?
    Overkill is underrated.
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  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,973 Senior Member
    #15
    Remington R51...

    easy.png

    So much promise and so poorly made.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
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  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    #16
    I think the R51 is back. Saw them at the Remington display when Cabelas opened a few weeks ago. Hope they have better luck this time around.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
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  • Uncle FesterUncle Fester Senior Member Posts: 1,405 Senior Member
    #17
    BigDanS wrote: »
    Remington R51...

    easy.png

    So much promise and so poorly made.

    D

    Great point. I forgot about it.
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  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,521 Senior Member
    #18
    cpj wrote: »
    Not even in the same ballpark you ape.
    Depends on who you talk to. Honestly. Mount a laser or anything with a battery in it on a firearm and some folks go me-poop crazy.
    Overkill is underrated.
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  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    #19
    Winchester 351 WSL

    Sleek trim beautiful auto loader, inadequate cartridge.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
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  • DurwoodDurwood Senior Member Posts: 970 Senior Member
    #20
    The Ruger 77. Fantastic looking wood stock, great feel and balance...poor accuracy and triggers ruin the package.
    You have the right to your own opinion, but you don't have the right to your own facts:guns:
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  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,086 Senior Member
    #21
    Freezer wrote: »
    The WWI French Machine gun Chauchat and the Japanese WWII pistol Nambu. both were the worst weapons ever put into the hands of a soldier.

    You are forgetting the Italian Carcano...unarguably the WORST rifle fielded in WWII...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
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  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,086 Senior Member
    #22
    cpj wrote: »
    Nope. I haven't. And it's still a dumb idea. I don't want to rely on electronics for any weapon.


    This...having to change batteries on a rifle is dumb...having to plug it in for a re-charge is dumber. This particular rifle had the ability to lock the user out....damn useful idea in my opinion....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
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  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,131 Senior Member
    #23
    I could see it for a bench rifle-- a trigger that is infinitely adjustable and darn near no lock time, but for any field use? No way in hell.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
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  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,521 Senior Member
    #24
    A fellow built a bullpup on a 788 action in 7mm-08. Used an electronic trigger to work the trigger, which also fixed the 788's notoriously poor trigger. I remember reading it in the 1988 Gun Digest. I believe he used a Shilen or Krieger barrel. I remembered reading the article, but didn't realize it was built on a 788 until I dug up the photos. Barrel's 20" long.

    bullpup4.jpg
    bullpup1.jpg
    Overkill is underrated.
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  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,543 Senior Member
    #25
    Kimber KDP40 (I think that was the name)
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
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  • Cheetoh734Cheetoh734 Senior Member Posts: 714 Senior Member
    #26
    Seems like Kel-tec has had some really neat stuff come out and then disappear. The RFB, the KSG, the PMR30. I know the KSG is still around but hearing about people breaking the rails off the fore-grip didn't make me want to run out and get one no matter how cool they seem. I've shot a PMR30 and it looked like it was going to be really neat, felt cheap and jammed a lot...bummer.
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  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,035 Senior Member
    #27
    Chuckles Schumer's pet idea/ project that was a dismal failure...the "Smart Gun". Actually it was a Demotard's dream that never made it to prototype.
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  • toymachinetoymachine Senior Member Posts: 761 Senior Member
    #28
    shootbrownelk wrote: »
    Chuckles Schumer's pet idea/ project that was a dismal failure...the "Smart Gun". Actually it was a Demotard's dream that never made it to prototype.

    That seems like a great design to you?
    "Is 'milk bottle' literally a racist term?"
    "It is now." - Jack Fraggs
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  • toymachinetoymachine Senior Member Posts: 761 Senior Member
    #29
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    You are forgetting the Italian Carcano...unarguably the WORST rifle fielded in WWII...

    Good enough for "executive" work.
    "Is 'milk bottle' literally a racist term?"
    "It is now." - Jack Fraggs
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  • RugerFanRugerFan Senior Member Posts: 2,394 Senior Member
    #30
    bisley wrote: »
    Ithaca pump shotguns. I know there are lot of them still around, but they should still be building them. I used one a few times when I was a teenager and I loved it. It was light weight and felt good.

    They are still in business. I love my M37 20ga. They make a pretty 1911A1 also. Well, except for the billboard on the slide. A bit pricey too
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  • Wild TurkeyWild Turkey Member Posts: 78 Member
    #31
    Freezer wrote: »
    The WWI French Machine gun Chauchat

    Execution was so bad parts from one weapon couldn't be used to repair a different weapon.

    One program I saw said it's only redeeming quality was parts could be used to make a nice still. . .
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