I almost went into SF underwater mess-kit repair school, but in-flight Nuclear Missile Repairman paid a bigger bonus :conehead: :conehead: :tooth:
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
I agree that there does appear to be an inflated sense of entitlement, which isn't a good thing. But I also think that we're a lot further from even equality of opportunity, which I do think is an ideal this country should strive for. it certainly appears to me and many others that the nation as a whole has been moving further and not closer to that ideal over the past few decades.
You are right!! Thanks to racial quota systems, we have been embracing racism, and have even taken it to a whole new level! EVERYBODY should be judged by their accomplishments, and not their appearance!
Luis
Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
I agree that there does appear to be an inflated sense of entitlement, which isn't a good thing. But I also think that we're a lot further from even equality of opportunity, which I do think is an ideal this country should strive for. it certainly appears to me and many others that the nation as a whole has been moving further and not closer to that ideal over the past few decades.
The "nation as a whole" is "moving further and not closer to that ideal over the past few decades," for a totally predictable reason.
There is a system in place, whereby justice can be served for an individual who has been discriminated against, which is the proper venue for dealing with it. Very few intelligent people will argue against a specific case that has been properly proved in a court of law. Those who do disagree can usually be demonstrated to harbor bias, and be rendered irrelevant. A minority group can be elevated to equal status under the law, but that is only the first step in actually achieving equality, and what follows cannot be legislated - it has to be earned in the same way that the members of the majority race achieve status in the various communities. It's much more difficult for the minority that has to overcome century-long biases, but it can be done in the span of one generation, two at the most, because we have seen it done with various immigrant groups.
The fact that one political party has co-opted that venue, in favor of carving out a one-size-fits-all permanent victim constituency has resulted in the 'equal outcome' philosophy that the majority will never agree with, because it is unjust. Yes, it takes a long time to do it right, and that sucks. But that is the simple reality, because when government tries to speed up the process, they create more problems than they solve. After decades of making the problem worse, they don't even attempt to fix it any more. They just demagogue the hell out of it for political gain.
You are close, but it has nothing to do with race. If a guy goes out and trys, accepts that no one is going to pay him for existing, and takes charge of his own opportunity, he will do OK. Doesnt matter if that person is black, white, female, brown, yellow, or burnt orange with pink polka dots. If that person puts forth the effort, ESPECIALLY when it really sucks, he will succeed. If you quit, blame someone else, or decide to coast at any time without making a plan or setting a goal, you are done. Can good things happen to make ones life better? Sure. Do they do anything other than accelerate the plan for those who are successful? Nope. There is the term, "Money follows money." Well, normally it does. Because the person who has money is converting it into wealth and knows how to make it work for him because he has a plan.
I heard a comedian sum it up talking about his successful brother. It went something like this.
Com "What makes you so much more successful than me? You're not that much smarter, not better looking and I have a degree."
Bro, "You remember telling me that you just watched the entire run of Jeresy Shore back to back?"
Com, "Yep."
Bro, "Well I didnt."
The Com said he got a life lesson, put down by his brother, and had a joke written for him.
In 28 years of going into all types of homes and businesses, I have learned a few things about successful people and those who complain about not having opportunity. The biggest truism has no grey area, people make their own opportunity. I have always noticed that most of the good things that happen to "lucky" people only seem to happen because of good decisions made by those people. "Unlucky" people are the ones who finance toys, go on nice trips financed by getting a "windfall" tax return drive nice cars that the bank owns, have season passes to a sports team, 3 credit cards, and a standing table at the local restaurant and cant figure out why they aren't getting ahead other than someone else is lucky or privileged.
It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
You are close, but it has nothing to do with race....
Race and entitlement was the subject I was commenting on. As everyone knows, I stalk alf all over the forum, so I can beat up on liberalism/progressive-ism at every opportunity.
I don't understand why anyone on Earth would ever borrow $60,000 to go to college for four years in the first place. More money for public education? I question that because I have doubts that it will improve the outcome for students. There are some things money can't solve-- or maybe it can if it is used correctly. Either it can't or it isn't.
Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
It's certainly a valid question these days. I don't know that I'd recommend it to young people who aren't in the top 10% of their high school class who knew exactly what they wanted to study. That said it's still the default advice given to high school kids and pretty much the primary path into the upper middle class before age 50.
If you dont know what you want to study before you go to school, how do you expect to get employed? You are hitting on one thing that is wrong with our education system. The primary advice about getting ANY degree just to get a degree. That bad advice was around in my time and I was told by the guidance counselor that I would never make anything of myself because I wasnt going to college out of HS. It is not a path to middle class. It is a door opener to give you a shot at doing something with your life. My kid should be into it for about the price of a real nice mid sized car. The fact that that money spent on a hard science degree means that it is a investment no less than a truck and trailer if one wants to go into excavating.
It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
Spending four years (or maybe six) regurgitating the claptrap some liberal professor spouts, to earn a piece of paper identical to thousands of others is a recipie for failure because all those little clones who march across the stage together are all going to be competing for the same sort of entry-level jobs. Borrowing a pile of money to make that happen is just stupid!
Find a skill that's in demand, and become the best of the best at doing it. I'd much rather be one of 100 applicants for a thousand jobs than vice versa! Oh, yeah, I was! The only time I've ever been unemployed was when I wanted to be, for some reason. The only exception to that general rule was being a veteran in Commiefornia in the late 1970's, and then I opened my own business.
Jerry
One of the richest guys I know is a plumber that never went to school. Started as an apprentice plumber right out of high school, did a whole bunch of .... work (literally), worked hard, and started buying broken down houses in east Austin every time he got some extra capital built up. Started his own plumbing company, fixed up the houses, did all the work himself, rented out the houses to low income renters, got stabbed by one renter, and shot at by another, kept building his equity and holdings. He is now a multi-millionaire, with a BUNCH of property in 'gentrifying' hipster neighborhoods. Sold his company, and is just managing the properties now. Still drives an old plumbing truck, lives in the same house with none of the trappings of wealth.
But I guess that's white privilege as well. Making the hard choices, working hard, risking his livelihood and business, getting STABBED by a renter who found out he owned the place and was not just a worker sent over to fix the sink, and not wasting money on frivolous stuff.
One other thing- as a poor white kid who went to college I could not pay for, I took loans. But I worked hard and paid them off in just a couple of years. You HAVE to make the choice to pay your bills instead of wasting money on frivolous stuff. Choices have repercussions. live with them and fix em. Don't just sit back and whine that it's someone else's fault
To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
-Mikhail Kalashnikov
College is simply not the correct solution for at least half of the population, maybe more. Smart people are needed in almost every occupation, and more than a few have had to start out as 'menial' laborers for a while, before their abilities were recognized by themselves and others. There's nothing like digging ditches to get your brain calculating for the future. That is an education that produces results. If you don't think so, just look at all the Mexican immigrants that start their own businesses, once they have mastered the language. Many of them are 'coming up' exactly like some of our fathers and grandfathers.
The difference between the generations is that too many people won't do uninteresting work for low wages, even temporarily, because they have never had to. You can chalk most of that up to the government assistance programs becoming so corrupted that politicians can buy votes by enhancing what was originally intended to be subsistence level aid, by removing the work requirement and offering loopholes in the time limit. Add illegal immigration, that gobbles up most of the low-skilled jobs, and the government's over-taxing of business and increasing regulations to the point that they cannot compete against foreign companies, and you have a cycle that is causing the middle classes to disappear.
College is a wonderful thing for the kid that knows what he wants to do, and takes the classes that will get him/her there. But for those who don't, vocational training is a lot cheaper, and a lot more likely to earn a decent paycheck. If you don't like what you're doing, you can branch off into management in some related field, or take more training while earning a living wage. For a few lucky ones, like me, it's even possible to learn a professional trade without ever getting 'formal' training, by simply working hard, accepting challenges, and not giving up.
It's certainly a valid question these days. I don't know that I'd recommend it to young people who aren't in the top 10% of their high school class who knew exactly what they wanted to study. That said it's still the default advice given to high school kids and pretty much the primary path into the upper middle class before age 50.
Yea, tuition is getting crazy silly in this day and age. Piss poor advice from high schools, brainwashing kids into thinking a college degree is necessary to be successful in life, and politicians acting like everyone getting degrees will solve poverty in our society causes many people that shouldn't be in college to be in college with piss poor results and a considerable waste of time and resources-- leaving many kids with loans for not only useless degrees, but no degrees at all.
It is like the false logic that if everyone had a million dollars, we would all be rich. If everyone had college degrees, we would all be successful and in the upper middle class. The reality is that somebody has to make the french fries, pick up the trash, mow the yards, pick the lettuce, and change Granny's bedpan. There is nothing wrong with any of those jobs! Honest work is honorable.
Throwing money at schools-- Detroit gets considerably more money per child than my kids' school does. It doesn't help. I see poor, uneducated parents raising poor, uneducated children to become poor, uneducated adults as the real problem. Children raised in an environment where education is valued tend to get a much better education than ones that aren't.
Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
Yea, tuition is getting crazy silly in this day and age. Piss poor advice from high schools, brainwashing kids into thinking a college degree is necessary to be successful in life, and politicians acting like everyone getting degrees will solve poverty in our society causes many people that shouldn't be in college to be in college with piss poor results and a considerable waste of time and resources-- leaving many kids with loans for not only useless degrees, but no degrees at all.
It is like the false logic that if everyone had a million dollars, we would all be rich. If everyone had college degrees, we would all be successful and in the upper middle class. The reality is that somebody has to make the french fries, pick up the trash, mow the yards, pick the lettuce, and change Granny's bedpan. There is nothing wrong with any of those jobs! Honest work is honorable.
Throwing money at schools-- Detroit gets considerably more money per child than my kids' school does. It doesn't help. I see poor, uneducated parents raising poor, uneducated children to become poor, uneducated adults as the real problem. Children raised in an environment where education is valued tend to get a much better education than ones that aren't.
You hit the nail on the head with the bolded part. When the parents get involved and value education, the kids do as well. The other issue, as I see it, a great many of the ones racking up great amounts of debt, are unwilling to work at jobs "beneath them". Go to college, (hopefully on mom and dad's dime), then off to the high-paying, low amounts of work jobs,
that just don't exist.
The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
I do find it slightly interesting that it is primarily baby boomers who are members of the most privileged generation in history have such strong opinions about the opportunities available to young people today. You are the last generation that will mostly retire with pensions. You will collect more SS and Medicare benefits than any generation previously or after. When you graduated high school a year of college tuition at a state school with all fees ran approximately $400 a year and could easily be paid cash by working an entry level service job like bagging groceries (like my father did). If you chose not to go to school there were still plenty of well paying jobs that paid a living middle class wage as long as you were willing to work.
Ah yes, by all means bash us baby boomers. After all, as every millennial and gen-xer knows, all of their problems are directly due to us. We're such a greedy and ungrateful bunch.
Ever wonder which generation kept this country afloat while you pups were still learning the fine art of whining? I'll leave that conversation for another day. I wouldn't want to inject an opinion that might offend you.
Jerry
Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
I do find it slightly interesting that it is primarily baby boomers who are members of the most privileged generation in history have such strong opinions about the opportunities available to young people today. You are the last generation that will mostly retire with pensions. You will collect more SS and Medicare benefits than any generation previously or after. When you graduated high school a year of college tuition at a state school with all fees ran approximately $400 a year and could easily be paid cash by working an entry level service job like bagging groceries (like my father did). If you chose not to go to school there were still plenty of well paying jobs that paid a living middle class wage as long as you were willing to work.
You're painting with a pretty wide brush here. The baby boomer era spaned 20 years and I would have liked to seen 400.00 a year tuition. I separated from the military in 1980 and went to school on the GI bill in 1981. I got 235.00 a month if I took 12 credits (which I did) but still had to work 52 hours a week to pay for rent and food and tuition. That 235.00 a month barely covered my books and that was at a junior college. Once again you're pulling data out of your backside.
I know this is a foreign concept to some, but I'm actually capable of putting myself is someone else's shoes and feeling empathy for them. I'm also self aware enough to recognize my own privilege. I basically had every advantage that I could ask for and has resulted in me being more successful than at least 95% of my peers. If I were an arrogant conservative I might assume that my success was 100% because of my own awesomeness, but I'm humble enough to recognize the fact that I grew up in a wealthy community with awesome parents, and very good schools, and had parents that helped me pay for college so I could focus on my studies rather than worry about how I was going to feed myself. Would I still have been successful if I was raised in another environment? Maybe, probably at least to a degree, but my environment helped a lot.
Yes, yes, and you love puppies, too, and nobody who disagrees with you about problem-solving can possibly be capable of empathy.
Short-term liberal 'solutions' are fine for salving the conscience, but they leave the problems unsolved. What is worse, liberals try to thwart any efforts to objectively identify the problems and find genuine solutions, because it makes them look incompetent.
I know this is a foreign concept to some, but I'm actually capable of putting myself is someone else's shoes and feeling empathy for them. I'm also self aware enough to recognize my own privilege. I basically had every advantage that I could ask for and has resulted in me being more successful than at least 95% of my peers. If I were an arrogant conservative I might assume that my success was 100% because of my own awesomeness, but I'm humble enough to recognize the fact that I grew up in a wealthy community with awesome parents, and very good schools, and had parents that helped me pay for college so I could focus on my studies rather than worry about how I was going to feed myself. Would I still have been successful if I was raised in another environment? Maybe, probably at least to a degree, but my environment helped a lot.
Wow. That is just... Wow.
You start off by saying that you are the only one to put themselves in others shoes, then call others arrogant. That is pretty damn arrogant in and of itself.
You may have had priveledge, so you assume everyone else white and successful has as well. That is pretty damn arrogant, not to mention racist. I can tell you that a lot of us poor whitetrash kids from flyover country did not have the priveledge that is assumed by the progressive liberals that want to make us feel bad for what we have achieved- and then want to screw a government gun in my ear and take what we have worked hard for.
I am proud of what I have achieved. I am grateful for the lessons and help my family provided to me. I am proud of the achievements of others, and am sorrowful for those that have thrown away opportunities that have been afforded them. I know rich white kids that pissed away every advantage given to them, and also know minorities that have overcome insurmountable odds and roadblocks and have excelled. "White privilege" is a myth. It all comes down to individual choices and actions. Some people have a harder lot in life, and that sucks for them. But it does not mean that someone else's achievements mean less because of the color of their skin.
To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
-Mikhail Kalashnikov
Does white privilege exist? Yes, to a degree. It however shouldn't be used as an excuse or a crutch as it seems to be portrayed so often. There are all sorts of factors outside of your control that will impact how difficult your life will be (genes, health, wealth of your parents, where you grow up, quality of your education, how attractive you are, etc.). Yes, a rich, white, trust fund baby is going to have a much easier time than a poor, black, inner city kid. But it doesn't mean one can't become more talented and successful than the other. It will just be more challenging. It sucks, but we don't all start out at the same place, and we all have to do the best we can with the cards we're dealt. If you spend your whole life complaining about your cards, you've already lost.
This is kinda what I believe, WHAT??? Did you say this Alpha??? Damn! There is hope for you after all!!! That was a great response man! You hit it on the head Bro! I would agree with your every point. Beautiful!
Daddy, what's an enabler?
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
I know this is a foreign concept to some, but I'm actually capable of putting myself is someone else's shoes and feeling empathy for them. I'm also self aware enough to recognize my own privilege. I basically had every advantage that I could ask for and has resulted in me being more successful than at least 95% of my peers. If I were an arrogant conservative I might assume that my success was 100% because of my own awesomeness, but I'm humble enough to recognize the fact that I grew up in a wealthy community with awesome parents, and very good schools, and had parents that helped me pay for college so I could focus on my studies rather than worry about how I was going to feed myself. Would I still have been successful if I was raised in another environment? Maybe, probably at least to a degree, but my environment helped a lot.
Excuse me for being a Johnny Come Lately to this thread. I made some small comment on it when it was just getting steam and then tried to avoid it because this sort of thread seems to go nowhere and just ends up pissing me off in general. But I read your first comment and was overjoyed at your response. Then I read more and it sounds like the same old you. Make up your mind alfa, which side of the fence you want to land on.
You say whites are privileged but you ignore all the perks your party has afforded blacks and some other minorities over white males. I see blacks all the time that have advantage over guys like me. I was passed over for promotion more than a few times because of affirmative action giving the promotion to a questionably lesser candidate so they could say they were all about equal rights. That right there more than leveled the playing field and in fact turn the tables away from at least 50% of whites like myself, because it made no difference how hard I worked, what I accomplished or what I was willing to do for the team, I had to settle for a status quo job, while I saw mediocre minorities move up the ladder and laud it over me.
What am I? the sacrificial lamb of my race? The company gets to pick and choose who to sacrifice?
They evidently liked my knowledge and ability because every time they needed that ability to get something done they were never afraid to ask me or try to put me in that role. But when it came time for the gravy to be ladled out it went to those that helped their company image.
Daddy, what's an enabler?
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
You start off by saying that you are the only one to put themselves in others shoes, then call others arrogant. That is pretty damn arrogant in and of itself.
You may have had priveledge, so you assume everyone else white and successful has as well. That is pretty damn arrogant, not to mention racist. I can tell you that a lot of us poor whitetrash kids from flyover country did not have the priveledge that is assumed by the progressive liberals that want to make us feel bad for what we have achieved- and then want to screw a government gun in my ear and take what we have worked hard for.
I am proud of what I have achieved. I am grateful for the lessons and help my family provided to me. I am proud of the achievements of others, and am sorrowful for those that have thrown away opportunities that have been afforded them. I know rich white kids that pissed away every advantage given to them, and also know minorities that have overcome insurmountable odds and roadblocks and have excelled. "White privilege" is a myth. It all comes down to individual choices and actions. Some people have a harder lot in life, and that sucks for them. But it does not mean that someone else's achievements mean less because of the color of their skin.
I agree with Alfa that there is something to white privilege. Or there used to be. But there is also that overlooked privilege that now exists for minorities where they are afforded privilege for just being a minority. Also, that white privilege he percieves to be fact is not white privilege but rather just plain privilege. Some people are privileged above all the rest of us, white, black, everybody.
My post above explains what happened to me because of affirmative action and I am not alone in this by any stretch. there's loads of other victims. So, Alfa has no point here. The two offset each other. Why can't we just throw the playbook away and rezero this whole thing and make it totally even on every point. That might work if they could do away with affirmative action and sew the mouths shut of people like Jesse and Al.
Daddy, what's an enabler?
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
Agreed. The problem is the costs have gone up so much in the past 30+ years, way way higher than inflation. Now at many schools it costs more than a house. I don't know where your kid is going, but most state schools are on the order of $15k a year just for tuition (and many require expensive dorm living and meal plans the first few years that can ad another $10+k per year). Ohio State has more than doubled (close to trippled) since I graduated. Community colleges are largely still cheap and one way to cut costs, but that option is rarely presented to kids as a good one if at all.
Penn State, and 15K is pretty close. Paying expensive dorm living and meal plans are part of the "bad idea" area. She is going to a satellite campus where tuition is about 4K lower and she is working and living at home and her degree will still say Penn State. With what she should have to put on the loan at the end of school from working and what I put away for her, her payoff wont take as long. I have a BIL from your generation that is trying to convince her that she needs to go to U-Park for "the experience" and because she could go to football games. Since she is paying her own way, she has so far made a good decision and told him that that would be stupid. When we talk finances, I bring up any of my wifes family as examples of how not to do XXXX because if there is a bad decision to be taken, they have dont it and compounded on it.
It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
I know this is a foreign concept to some, but I'm actually capable of putting myself is someone else's shoes and feeling empathy for them. I'm also self aware enough to recognize my own privilege. I basically had every advantage that I could ask for and has resulted in me being more successful than at least 95% of my peers. If I were an arrogant conservative I might assume that my success was 100% because of my own awesomeness, but I'm humble enough to recognize the fact that I grew up in a wealthy community with awesome parents, and very good schools, and had parents that helped me pay for college so I could focus on my studies rather than worry about how I was going to feed myself. Would I still have been successful if I was raised in another environment? Maybe, probably at least to a degree, but my environment helped a lot.
More like you are looking at others from your perspective and cant figure out how it can be done without the perks you had and are assuming that yours is the only way. A lot of us worried about feeding ourselves and keeping the heat on while we went to school. 400 a year is a fantasy that you pulled out of your seat. I am thinking 260-280/credit, which is why I pulled 18/semester. You pay for the first 12, then you are full time.
I feel empathy, but I dont shoulder any blame for people who dont make it. I think (not feel) that assisting someone by explaining why they failed does more for them than throwing money at them and making the stupid decision a moot point. I dont feel any remorse when they fail. I will not sit back and be belittled by those who wont do the work.
Awesomeness? Scuse me? Well, I guess if you had everything handed to you then seeing someone work and achieve is pretty awesome.
It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
Im a selfish white prick who's busted his ass for everything he has. And I continue to do so. Will till I die. Or until I hit that lottery. Then I ain't doin a damn thing. But anyway. I don't really give two **** about any whiny ing ass bag who claims that I had an advantage because of my "white privilege". Guess what cupcake? I've you white privilege swinging.
So, are you saying that white privilege doesn't amount to much, or that it's just cold, and we should make allowances? :jester:
"Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
George Carlin
Well put Wambli. I'm all for helping the poor as in basic necessities like big cans of peanut butter/cheese like the GOVT used to hand out and help with some housing/utilities, but not where able-bodied recipients can live the "Life of Riley" without lifting a finger to help themselves.
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
Replies
Jerry
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
You are right!! Thanks to racial quota systems, we have been embracing racism, and have even taken it to a whole new level! EVERYBODY should be judged by their accomplishments, and not their appearance!
Luis
The "nation as a whole" is "moving further and not closer to that ideal over the past few decades," for a totally predictable reason.
There is a system in place, whereby justice can be served for an individual who has been discriminated against, which is the proper venue for dealing with it. Very few intelligent people will argue against a specific case that has been properly proved in a court of law. Those who do disagree can usually be demonstrated to harbor bias, and be rendered irrelevant. A minority group can be elevated to equal status under the law, but that is only the first step in actually achieving equality, and what follows cannot be legislated - it has to be earned in the same way that the members of the majority race achieve status in the various communities. It's much more difficult for the minority that has to overcome century-long biases, but it can be done in the span of one generation, two at the most, because we have seen it done with various immigrant groups.
The fact that one political party has co-opted that venue, in favor of carving out a one-size-fits-all permanent victim constituency has resulted in the 'equal outcome' philosophy that the majority will never agree with, because it is unjust. Yes, it takes a long time to do it right, and that sucks. But that is the simple reality, because when government tries to speed up the process, they create more problems than they solve. After decades of making the problem worse, they don't even attempt to fix it any more. They just demagogue the hell out of it for political gain.
I heard a comedian sum it up talking about his successful brother. It went something like this.
Com "What makes you so much more successful than me? You're not that much smarter, not better looking and I have a degree."
Bro, "You remember telling me that you just watched the entire run of Jeresy Shore back to back?"
Com, "Yep."
Bro, "Well I didnt."
The Com said he got a life lesson, put down by his brother, and had a joke written for him.
In 28 years of going into all types of homes and businesses, I have learned a few things about successful people and those who complain about not having opportunity. The biggest truism has no grey area, people make their own opportunity. I have always noticed that most of the good things that happen to "lucky" people only seem to happen because of good decisions made by those people. "Unlucky" people are the ones who finance toys, go on nice trips financed by getting a "windfall" tax return drive nice cars that the bank owns, have season passes to a sports team, 3 credit cards, and a standing table at the local restaurant and cant figure out why they aren't getting ahead other than someone else is lucky or privileged.
Race and entitlement was the subject I was commenting on. As everyone knows, I stalk alf all over the forum, so I can beat up on liberalism/progressive-ism at every opportunity.
But I agree with your comments.
:roll:
Jerry
Find a skill that's in demand, and become the best of the best at doing it. I'd much rather be one of 100 applicants for a thousand jobs than vice versa! Oh, yeah, I was! The only time I've ever been unemployed was when I wanted to be, for some reason. The only exception to that general rule was being a veteran in Commiefornia in the late 1970's, and then I opened my own business.
Jerry
But I guess that's white privilege as well. Making the hard choices, working hard, risking his livelihood and business, getting STABBED by a renter who found out he owned the place and was not just a worker sent over to fix the sink, and not wasting money on frivolous stuff.
One other thing- as a poor white kid who went to college I could not pay for, I took loans. But I worked hard and paid them off in just a couple of years. You HAVE to make the choice to pay your bills instead of wasting money on frivolous stuff. Choices have repercussions. live with them and fix em. Don't just sit back and whine that it's someone else's fault
-Mikhail Kalashnikov
The difference between the generations is that too many people won't do uninteresting work for low wages, even temporarily, because they have never had to. You can chalk most of that up to the government assistance programs becoming so corrupted that politicians can buy votes by enhancing what was originally intended to be subsistence level aid, by removing the work requirement and offering loopholes in the time limit. Add illegal immigration, that gobbles up most of the low-skilled jobs, and the government's over-taxing of business and increasing regulations to the point that they cannot compete against foreign companies, and you have a cycle that is causing the middle classes to disappear.
College is a wonderful thing for the kid that knows what he wants to do, and takes the classes that will get him/her there. But for those who don't, vocational training is a lot cheaper, and a lot more likely to earn a decent paycheck. If you don't like what you're doing, you can branch off into management in some related field, or take more training while earning a living wage. For a few lucky ones, like me, it's even possible to learn a professional trade without ever getting 'formal' training, by simply working hard, accepting challenges, and not giving up.
It is like the false logic that if everyone had a million dollars, we would all be rich. If everyone had college degrees, we would all be successful and in the upper middle class. The reality is that somebody has to make the french fries, pick up the trash, mow the yards, pick the lettuce, and change Granny's bedpan. There is nothing wrong with any of those jobs! Honest work is honorable.
Throwing money at schools-- Detroit gets considerably more money per child than my kids' school does. It doesn't help. I see poor, uneducated parents raising poor, uneducated children to become poor, uneducated adults as the real problem. Children raised in an environment where education is valued tend to get a much better education than ones that aren't.
You hit the nail on the head with the bolded part. When the parents get involved and value education, the kids do as well. The other issue, as I see it, a great many of the ones racking up great amounts of debt, are unwilling to work at jobs "beneath them". Go to college, (hopefully on mom and dad's dime), then off to the high-paying, low amounts of work jobs,
that just don't exist.
Ah yes, by all means bash us baby boomers. After all, as every millennial and gen-xer knows, all of their problems are directly due to us. We're such a greedy and ungrateful bunch.
Ever wonder which generation kept this country afloat while you pups were still learning the fine art of whining? I'll leave that conversation for another day. I wouldn't want to inject an opinion that might offend you.
Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
You're painting with a pretty wide brush here. The baby boomer era spaned 20 years and I would have liked to seen 400.00 a year tuition. I separated from the military in 1980 and went to school on the GI bill in 1981. I got 235.00 a month if I took 12 credits (which I did) but still had to work 52 hours a week to pay for rent and food and tuition. That 235.00 a month barely covered my books and that was at a junior college. Once again you're pulling data out of your backside.
Yes, yes, and you love puppies, too, and nobody who disagrees with you about problem-solving can possibly be capable of empathy.
Short-term liberal 'solutions' are fine for salving the conscience, but they leave the problems unsolved. What is worse, liberals try to thwart any efforts to objectively identify the problems and find genuine solutions, because it makes them look incompetent.
Wow. That is just... Wow.
You start off by saying that you are the only one to put themselves in others shoes, then call others arrogant. That is pretty damn arrogant in and of itself.
You may have had priveledge, so you assume everyone else white and successful has as well. That is pretty damn arrogant, not to mention racist. I can tell you that a lot of us poor whitetrash kids from flyover country did not have the priveledge that is assumed by the progressive liberals that want to make us feel bad for what we have achieved- and then want to screw a government gun in my ear and take what we have worked hard for.
I am proud of what I have achieved. I am grateful for the lessons and help my family provided to me. I am proud of the achievements of others, and am sorrowful for those that have thrown away opportunities that have been afforded them. I know rich white kids that pissed away every advantage given to them, and also know minorities that have overcome insurmountable odds and roadblocks and have excelled. "White privilege" is a myth. It all comes down to individual choices and actions. Some people have a harder lot in life, and that sucks for them. But it does not mean that someone else's achievements mean less because of the color of their skin.
-Mikhail Kalashnikov
This is kinda what I believe, WHAT??? Did you say this Alpha??? Damn! There is hope for you after all!!! That was a great response man! You hit it on the head Bro! I would agree with your every point. Beautiful!
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
Excuse me for being a Johnny Come Lately to this thread. I made some small comment on it when it was just getting steam and then tried to avoid it because this sort of thread seems to go nowhere and just ends up pissing me off in general. But I read your first comment and was overjoyed at your response. Then I read more and it sounds like the same old you. Make up your mind alfa, which side of the fence you want to land on.
You say whites are privileged but you ignore all the perks your party has afforded blacks and some other minorities over white males. I see blacks all the time that have advantage over guys like me. I was passed over for promotion more than a few times because of affirmative action giving the promotion to a questionably lesser candidate so they could say they were all about equal rights. That right there more than leveled the playing field and in fact turn the tables away from at least 50% of whites like myself, because it made no difference how hard I worked, what I accomplished or what I was willing to do for the team, I had to settle for a status quo job, while I saw mediocre minorities move up the ladder and laud it over me.
What am I? the sacrificial lamb of my race? The company gets to pick and choose who to sacrifice?
They evidently liked my knowledge and ability because every time they needed that ability to get something done they were never afraid to ask me or try to put me in that role. But when it came time for the gravy to be ladled out it went to those that helped their company image.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
I agree with Alfa that there is something to white privilege. Or there used to be. But there is also that overlooked privilege that now exists for minorities where they are afforded privilege for just being a minority. Also, that white privilege he percieves to be fact is not white privilege but rather just plain privilege. Some people are privileged above all the rest of us, white, black, everybody.
My post above explains what happened to me because of affirmative action and I am not alone in this by any stretch. there's loads of other victims. So, Alfa has no point here. The two offset each other. Why can't we just throw the playbook away and rezero this whole thing and make it totally even on every point. That might work if they could do away with affirmative action and sew the mouths shut of people like Jesse and Al.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
Penn State, and 15K is pretty close. Paying expensive dorm living and meal plans are part of the "bad idea" area. She is going to a satellite campus where tuition is about 4K lower and she is working and living at home and her degree will still say Penn State. With what she should have to put on the loan at the end of school from working and what I put away for her, her payoff wont take as long. I have a BIL from your generation that is trying to convince her that she needs to go to U-Park for "the experience" and because she could go to football games. Since she is paying her own way, she has so far made a good decision and told him that that would be stupid. When we talk finances, I bring up any of my wifes family as examples of how not to do XXXX because if there is a bad decision to be taken, they have dont it and compounded on it.
I feel empathy, but I dont shoulder any blame for people who dont make it. I think (not feel) that assisting someone by explaining why they failed does more for them than throwing money at them and making the stupid decision a moot point. I dont feel any remorse when they fail. I will not sit back and be belittled by those who wont do the work.
Awesomeness? Scuse me? Well, I guess if you had everything handed to you then seeing someone work and achieve is pretty awesome.
So, are you saying that white privilege doesn't amount to much, or that it's just cold, and we should make allowances? :jester:
George Carlin
George Carlin
Exactly. Some people will make bad choices, and some people are just stupid. There is no way to equalize that.
The best you can do is to make discrimination illegal, and let people make the best of it they can through hard work.
ANY form of racism (including "affirmative action" etc) will only perpetuate discrimination.
Luis
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!