Home Main Category Personal Defense

A Biblical perspective on carrying a weapon

MississippiBoyMississippiBoy Posts: 819 Senior Member
For those of you interested and patient enough to read the whole thing, here's an article written by John Piper, a well-known theologian in the Christian community.

http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/should-christians-be-encouraged-to-arm-themselves?utm_medium=feed&utm_source=feedpress.me&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dg-articles

My brain hurt reading that, but I still read it all the way through.
I really don't have any words for this....
«1

Replies

  • bisleybisley Posts: 10,815 Senior Member
    I read it through all the way, and all I can say is that God gave us brains to be used for solving our earthly problems, and mine does not compute pacifist horseshiite.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Posts: 12,419 Senior Member
    The guy is purposely misrepresenting things. He is saying all this stuff about not resisting persecution- I agree. If someone is trying to keep me from worshiping, sure- dont use guns.

    But if someoneis trying to kill me- that is something different. That's not persecution, that is self preservation. And if you won't fight for your life, then that is telling God that you do not find this ultimate gift worth fighting for.

    Pap like this is why Ihave become non-denominational. Too many people like this in the leadership of most of the major churches
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • TeachTeach Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Anyone who refuses to defend themselves against a violent attack is a coward- - - -religious belief has little or nothing to do with it. I will not deprive my family of whatever benefit they might derive from my survival, just because some idiot who would do me harm supposedly has an eternal soul. Once he/she crosses that line, let's hope God will have mercy, because I won't!
    Jerry
  • jaywaptijaywapti Posts: 5,114 Senior Member
    We all know that some people interpret the Bible to suit themselves, I personally have no time or use for anyone that cannot answer a question or solve a problem by using the brain his God gave him without using the Bible as a crutch.

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • NNNN Posts: 25,235 Senior Member
    I'm not going to do the research; but, I expect some of his points are used out of context to fulfill his theory.
  • snake284snake284 Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    I read it through all the way, and all I can say is that God gave us brains to be used for solving our earthly problems, and mine does not compute pacifist horseshiite.

    I agree, this guy is a little overboard on his forgiveness. There comes a time that we should pic up the sword to defend ourselves. What are we do to? Cow in the face of the attackers and let them shoot everybody?
    If it's not for the defenders of the faith there would be no Christianity anymore. The Muslims would have wiped out everyone a long time ago. That's what Falwell was getting at and I agree with him.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Murphy's LawMurphy's Law Posts: 313 Member
    It's not just biblical.

    "...the farmers have no arms, the workers have neither land nor arms; this makes them virtually the servants of those who do poses arms."

    Aristotle 384-322 BC
    Greek philosopher and scientist.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Posts: 6,583 Senior Member
    :roll:
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    I have read the Bible cover to cover, at least 4 times, and am in the process of number 5. I have not come across anything that indicates one may not defends their life or another. Ridicule, insult, and persecution are all things Christians are commanded to put up with. The Bible never says stand there and let another take your life. Though it does say many will lose their lives for Christ's name.

    I would also point out that using deadly force to defend yourself, or another, is not in and of itself done out of fear. It is often done as a proper duty.
  • timctimc Posts: 6,684 Senior Member
    The apostle Paul called Christians not to avenge ourselves, but to leave it to the wrath of God

    Reminds me of a story about the faithful guy sitting on his roof in a flood, a boat came by and they said "Hop in we will take you to safety!" The guy replied, "God is my Shepard, he will save me!" Later anther boat came by, the water was up to the guy's waist and they said "Hop in we will take you to safety!" The guy replied, "God is my Shepard, he will save me!" Soon the water was up to the guy's neck and a helicopter came by and they said "Get on the ladder , we will fly you to safety!" The guy replied, "God is my Shepard, he will save me!"
    The water soon went over the guy's head and he drowned; standing before God the guy said "Lord I believed in you, why did you not save me?" The lord said, "I sent you two boats and a helicopter, what the heck do you want?"

    The moral is, God gave us tools to help ourselves, if we are too stupid to use them we will meet him sooner than later!
    timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
    AKA: Former Founding Member
  • MississippiBoyMississippiBoy Posts: 819 Senior Member
    timc wrote: »
    Reminds me of a story about the faithful guy sitting on his roof in a flood, a boat came by and they said "Hop in we will take you to safety!" The guy replied, "God is my Shepard, he will save me!" Later anther boat came by, the water was up to the guy's waist and they said "Hop in we will take you to safety!" The guy replied, "God is my Shepard, he will save me!" Soon the water was up to the guy's neck and a helicopter came by and they said "Get on the ladder , we will fly you to safety!" The guy replied, "God is my Shepard, he will save me!"
    The water soon went over the guy's head and he drowned; standing before God the guy said "Lord I believed in you, why did you not save me?" The lord said, "I sent you two boats and a helicopter, what the heck do you want?"

    The moral is, God gave us tools to help ourselves, if we are too stupid to use them we will meet him sooner than later!

    That was the EXACT parable I thought of when I was reading this.
    It boggles my mind that this guy would equivocate when he's talking about defending someone else's life. If anyone is asked, "Would you use force, up to and including LETHAL force, to defend your wife/child/significant other/family member while they're being attacked?" and they quibble about, hem and haw, but don't say, "Yes, I would.", then they're not worth having in your life. I wouldn't associate with a person like that, in any manner. If this came up in conversation with any of my friends, especially those with wives and children, and they answered in a similar manner to what this guy wrote, I would try to make them see the error of their ways at first. But if I couldn't convince them that defending their loved ones is a vital part of loving them, then we wouldn't be friends anymore.....it's as simple as that.
  • timctimc Posts: 6,684 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Quite frankly his main argument is that God does not want us to avenge or exert revenge on others. All that shows is his piss poor command and his twisting (on purpose or otherwise) of the English language and the Word. Self defense is not an act of vengeance, it is the act of stoping of an evil and we are taught to fight evil through out the whole Book(s).

    God uses all of us as tools at one time or another and if He wants to use me as a tool of His wrath against evil, so be it.

    And for some being a tool is quite natural! :jester:
    timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
    AKA: Former Founding Member
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Posts: 14,838 Senior Member
    The devils job is to steal, kill, and destroy. If a devil is kicking in your front door, you unload your .357, and then you reload.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Had some twit ask me if I was "really prepared" (mentally) to take someone's life using my ccw weapon in defense of me or my family. I responded with " I'm prepared to beat someone to death with a claw hammer in defense of my self or my family."
    She first thought I was being funny.
    I had someone tell me I was violent. I said no, but I am prepared for violence if it comes my way.
    cpj wrote: »
    While I was always certain I'd have no issues defending my self or others, the second I held my first born, a precious yet helpless 4 pound 2 ounce baby girl, a switch in my head was flipped. It went from " I'm cool with defending my family", to " I'll go to the ends of the earth to rip you apart piece by tiny piece in defense of my family."
    Anyone who has family and thinks differently is a , and a sad excuse for a man.
    Pretty much.
  • BigslugBigslug Posts: 9,856 Senior Member
    If he wants to believe that his god put him on earth to be a ****, I guess that's his prerogative.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • snake284snake284 Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Had some twit ask me if I was "really prepared" (mentally) to take someone's life using my ccw weapon in defense of me or my family. I responded with " I'm prepared to beat someone to death with a claw hammer in defense of my self or my family."
    She first thought I was being funny.

    While I was always certain I'd have no issues defending my self or others, the second I held my first born, a precious yet helpless 4 pound 2 ounce baby girl, a switch in my head was flipped. It went from " I'm cool with defending my family", to " I'll go to the ends of the earth to rip you apart piece by tiny piece in defense of my family."
    Anyone who has family and thinks differently is a , and a sad excuse for a man.

    Me too, most definitely, but thank God I have more guns than Claw Hammers and I actually happen to be more proficient with the guns.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Dr. dbDr. db Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    I have thought, and written about this. Some day I'll post the writings. For now I will just post this quote.
    Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

    Robert Heinlein
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Posts: 2,614 Senior Member
    I completely reject the conclusions Piper puts forth. It's not only ok for me to be armed, but I consider it my responsibility to protect myself and my family. Touch my grandkids and you win an all-expense-paid first-class ticket to oblivion.
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • TxwheelsTxwheels Posts: 151 Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Had some twit ask me if I was "really prepared" (mentally) to take someone's life using my ccw weapon in defense of me or my family. I responded with " I'm prepared to beat someone to death with a claw hammer in defense of my self or my family."
    She first thought I was being funny.

    While I was always certain I'd have no issues defending my self or others, the second I held my first born, a precious yet helpless 4 pound 2 ounce baby girl, a switch in my head was flipped. It went from " I'm cool with defending my family", to " I'll go to the ends of the earth to rip you apart piece by tiny piece in defense of my family."
    Anyone who has family and thinks differently is a , and a sad excuse for a man.


    Need a double like button for this reply!
    If I don't answer the phone, I'm probably in the Senate taking a POTUS and wiping my Congress
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    This guy studied at the Ned Flanders school of theology....
    Scripture twisting at its finest as well as taking the scriptures out of context....

    One man's views on personal defense using misinterpreted bible verses to back his claims....
    Just like those that claim you cant drink wine etc.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Posts: 6,583 Senior Member
    God-shmod. When it comes to actually and wholly defending family, spouse, children, life-long friends from anything fatal/mortal/brutal/destructive (including capture/prosecution for capital crimes) there is no flippin' playbook--the Bible included.

    I'm not religious but I generally enjoy the moral teachings and philosophical musings of some books of the scripture with regards to the human societal conditions. But it's all out the window when the chips are down; sorry.

    The ***t I would do for my family and two real friends would shock the public morals to complete disgust. When the chips are down religion is rarely a filter for actions.

    Repent later.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • bisleybisley Posts: 10,815 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    God-shmod. When it comes to actually and wholly defending family, spouse, children, life-long friends from anything fatal/mortal/brutal/destructive (including capture/prosecution for capital crimes) there is no flippin' playbook--the Bible included.

    I'm not religious but I generally enjoy the moral teachings and philosophical musings of some books of the scripture with regards to the human societal conditions. But it's all out the window when the chips are down; sorry.

    The ***t I would do for my family and two real friends would shock the public morals to complete disgust. When the chips are down religion is rarely a filter for actions.

    Repent later.

    I may not have said it in exactly the same way, but your words are grounded in cold, hard reality. All the philosophical and moral questions get swept aside when those you care about need you to save them.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Posts: 18,355 Senior Member
    The guy is an idiot...

    When someone gets all "Biblical" on me...my tendency is to say "wait a minute...you're lecturing me based on a book that has been translated, re-translated, interpreted, re-interpreted, edited, added to, subtracted from and condensed by people with dubious cultural and political agendas for how long? " There are over 100+ translations/interpretations of the Scriptures out there...how can anyone nowadays be sure they've got the right one? Because a particular religion says it's the right one?


    Just another reason I am firmly non-denominational and believe that organized religion, in general, is and always has been one of the most divisive entities on the planet..."Religion divides people, belief in something brings them together..."
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Murphy's LawMurphy's Law Posts: 313 Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    The guy is an idiot...

    When someone gets all "Biblical" on me...my tendency is to say "wait a minute...you're lecturing me based on a book that has been translated, re-translated, interpreted, re-interpreted, edited, added to, subtracted from and condensed by people with dubious cultural and political agendas for how long? " There are over 100+ translations/interpretations of the Scriptures out there...how can anyone nowadays be sure they've got the right one? Because a particular religion says it's the right one?


    Just another reason I am firmly non-denominational and believe that organized religion, in general, is and always has been one of the most divisive entities on the planet..."Religion divides people, belief in something brings them together..."

    Pretty much my thoughts as well. Religion for me is a very personal endeavor. I do enjoy reading the Bible now and then but mostly for moral guidance rather than any spiritual means; if that makes sense.
  • TxwheelsTxwheels Posts: 151 Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    The guy is an idiot...

    When someone gets all "Biblical" on me...my tendency is to say "wait a minute...you're lecturing me based on a book that has been translated, re-translated, interpreted, re-interpreted, edited, added to, subtracted from and condensed by people with dubious cultural and political agendas for how long? " There are over 100+ translations/interpretations of the Scriptures out there...how can anyone nowadays be sure they've got the right one? Because a particular religion says it's the right one?


    Just another reason I am firmly non-denominational and believe that organized religion, in general, is and always has been one of the most divisive entities on the planet..."Religion divides people, belief in something brings them together..."


    Anytime someone starts getting 'Biblical' on me, I cover my wallet cause it's a sure bet they are going to start asking for a donation..
    If I don't answer the phone, I'm probably in the Senate taking a POTUS and wiping my Congress
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    .True religion and spirituality does NOT reside in a book or a building made by hands,
    You can have a more spiritual experience hunting and communing with nature than you might napping in Church to a particularly boring sermon.

    Treat people nicely, don't pick on folks sillier than you, defend yourself and your family and friends, however, be nice to other people if it is possible.
    Pretty much sums it up.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • ZeeZee Posts: 28,368 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    While I was always certain I'd have no issues defending my self or others, the second I held my first born, a precious yet helpless 4 pound 2 ounce baby girl, a switch in my head was flipped. It went from " I'm cool with defending my family", to " I'll go to the ends of the earth to rip you apart piece by tiny piece in defense of my family."
    Anyone who has family and thinks differently is a , and a sad excuse for a man.

    :agree:
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Posts: 28,368 Senior Member
    There is a plethora and myriad of LE (and retired LE) who attend my church. Not to mention those with CCW permits. The lack of armed individuals who understand of their ability and responsibility is not something my church suffers from.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • EliEli Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    God-shmod. When it comes to actually and wholly defending family, spouse, children, life-long friends from anything fatal/mortal/brutal/destructive (including capture/prosecution for capital crimes) there is no flippin' playbook--the Bible included.

    I'm not religious but I generally enjoy the moral teachings and philosophical musings of some books of the scripture with regards to the human societal conditions. But it's all out the window when the chips are down; sorry.

    The ***t I would do for my family and two real friends would shock the public morals to complete disgust. When the chips are down religion is rarely a filter for actions.

    Repent later.

    :that:
    x1000.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Lots of folks that spend lots of time getting "BIBLICAL" on others seem to rarely practice what they preach (rant) to others.....

    I say leave before they can ask for your DOUGH - NATION !
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
Sign In or Register to comment.
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Guns & Ammo stories delivered right to your inbox every week.

Advertisement