Had some twit ask me if I was "really prepared" (mentally) to take someone's life using my ccw weapon in defense of me or my family. I responded with " I'm prepared to beat someone to death with a claw hammer in defense of my self or my family."
She first thought I was being funny.
While I was always certain I'd have no issues defending my self or others, the second I held my first born, a precious yet helpless 4 pound 2 ounce baby girl, a switch in my head was flipped. It went from " I'm cool with defending my family", to " I'll go to the ends of the earth to rip you apart piece by tiny piece in defense of my family."
Anyone who has family and thinks differently is a , and a sad excuse for a man.
Wow...if I was hearing this as a sermon, I would walk out. Taking the word of God COMPLETELY out of context and twisting it for his own ambitions. No wonder there is no comment section.
As has been said before, if someone is kicking in your door, to rob, plunder, and steal, they care not your denomination or lack thereof.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill
Piper worries too much about Christians killing their adversaries. A Christian does not want to take lives, he shoots only to save lives - his own and perhaps those around him. He is not initiating the action, just reacting to it with the instincts God gave him - self preservation, fight or flight, whatever.
Prior to His crucifixion, Jesus revealed to His disciples the future hostility they would face and encouraged them to sell their outer garments in order to buy a sword (Luke 22:36-38; cf. 2 Corinthians 11:26-27). Here the "sword" (Greek: maxairan) is a dagger or short sword that belonged to the Jewish traveler's equipment as protection against robbers and wild animals. A plain reading of the passage indicates that Jesus approved of self-defense. Self-defense may actually result in one of the greatest examples of human love. Christ Himself said, "Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:14). When protecting one's family or neighbor, a Christian is unselfishly risking his or her life for the sake of others.
When does even that rationalization cross the line? When is the use of lethal force in defense of others in immediate peril of their lives a sin nonetheless? Is a Christian justified in shooting an abortion doctor to save babies from certain death? Would a Christian assassin be right or wrong taking a shot at Adolf Hitler in 1937? Is lethal force in the defense of property ever appropriate? How about the defense of something intangible like one's concept of liberty? There are the freedoms 'from' (privation and want) and the freedoms 'to' (lifestyle choices and economic opportunity). Is the defense of one more important or valid than the other? Or do they have to both be in contention to convert murder into a 'just' war?
Knock yourselves out. The road to truth is paved with dead philosophers and theologians.
Anyway, it is a sure thing that Piper is a heretic. If nothing else, he advocates dogmas that have strayed from Catholic orthodoxy, therefore he will be reported to the Congregation For The Doctrine Of The Faith (formerly the Holy Office, formerly The Inquisition). He will be charged with heresy, blasphemy, apostasy, and not returning his shopping cart to the designated area. If found guilty, he will be confessed, and remanded to the civil authority for auto-da-fe, and purification by fire.
Sometimes you have to burn a witch to save her from the fires of Hell.
!!!!!! WOAH !!!!!!!!! Horselips has spoken quite well !!!!!!
I agree completely !!!!!
"There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
!!!!!! WOAH !!!!!!!!! Horselips has spoken quite well !!!!!!
I agree completely !!!!!
However, I lost many relatives during the Spanish inquisition accused falsely by Torquemada and minions.
"There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
However, I lost many relatives during the Spanish inquisition accused falsely by Torquemada and minions.
The Spanish Inquisition had some interesting rules of evidence. If a witness lied about the accused, he was punished for his perjury, but if the accused was convicted anyway, his false testimony was given full weight at the sentencing.
I could think of more folks than just witches who would object to it.
Hitler did this. He killed the Jews to rid us, and them, of themselves.
“There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
By the way, the inquistions stated purpose was to get rid of Jews, especially secret Jews, and witnesses were arranged purposely by the inquisitors, the Catholic church, a person could be burned at the stake because he wore a white shirt on the Jewish Sabath ! The charge ? being a secret Jew!
This was a most convenient way to get rid of people that were garnering too much power, and a way to seize their land and money and estates and titles etc.....
Most of the time the charges were FALSE !!!!!
However, nobody in the Grand Inquistors office cared if the charges were FALSE anyway, unless it was someone they did not want to burn!
"There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
It is my understanding that the "Grand Inquisitor's Office" is still extant in the Catholic Church. Anybody know?
Cardinal Ximinez of Spain made a good job of it.
"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again............."
Believe in God, or don't. Makes no difference to me. But, don't let someone else convince you. Figure it out for yourself, or decide to wait for more evidence, if you can't figure it out.
But, if man has a soul, which I believe he does, he should try to live his life according to what that 'inner voice' is telling him is right. Mine tells me not to be subjugated by anyone, especially someone with a lesser sense of morality than I have.
Change the title of this thread to ;
A theological opinion on personal defense,
Then expound on this quote;
I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them."
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...."
"There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
Believe in God, or don't. Makes no difference to me. But, don't let someone else convince you. Figure it out for yourself, or decide to wait for more evidence, if you can't figure it out.
But, if man has a soul, which I believe he does, he should try to live his life according to what that 'inner voice' is telling him is right. Mine tells me not to be subjugated by anyone, especially someone with a lesser sense of morality than I have.
:that::agree::up::applause:
-Zorba, "The Veiled Male"
"If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
It is my understanding that the "Grand Inquisitor's Office" is still extant in the Catholic Church. Anybody know?
The Holy Inquisition exists - but with a more restrained mission, and under a different name. The first change was renaming it the Holy Office, then it became The Congregation For The Doctrine Of The Faith. Even so ... be careful out there.
Yes, because at the end of the day, it boils down to that basic concept, that is what the do unto others clause means.
Hillel the elder said;
.. the expression of the ethic of reciprocity, or "Golden Rule": "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."
That is why I quoted John Wayne....
"There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
Replies
I agree. Well said. My daughters ringtone on my phone is .......Cleaning this gun.
As has been said before, if someone is kicking in your door, to rob, plunder, and steal, they care not your denomination or lack thereof.
Winston Churchill
Prior to His crucifixion, Jesus revealed to His disciples the future hostility they would face and encouraged them to sell their outer garments in order to buy a sword (Luke 22:36-38; cf. 2 Corinthians 11:26-27). Here the "sword" (Greek: maxairan) is a dagger or short sword that belonged to the Jewish traveler's equipment as protection against robbers and wild animals. A plain reading of the passage indicates that Jesus approved of self-defense. Self-defense may actually result in one of the greatest examples of human love. Christ Himself said, "Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:14). When protecting one's family or neighbor, a Christian is unselfishly risking his or her life for the sake of others.
When does even that rationalization cross the line? When is the use of lethal force in defense of others in immediate peril of their lives a sin nonetheless? Is a Christian justified in shooting an abortion doctor to save babies from certain death? Would a Christian assassin be right or wrong taking a shot at Adolf Hitler in 1937? Is lethal force in the defense of property ever appropriate? How about the defense of something intangible like one's concept of liberty? There are the freedoms 'from' (privation and want) and the freedoms 'to' (lifestyle choices and economic opportunity). Is the defense of one more important or valid than the other? Or do they have to both be in contention to convert murder into a 'just' war?
Knock yourselves out. The road to truth is paved with dead philosophers and theologians.
Anyway, it is a sure thing that Piper is a heretic. If nothing else, he advocates dogmas that have strayed from Catholic orthodoxy, therefore he will be reported to the Congregation For The Doctrine Of The Faith (formerly the Holy Office, formerly The Inquisition). He will be charged with heresy, blasphemy, apostasy, and not returning his shopping cart to the designated area. If found guilty, he will be confessed, and remanded to the civil authority for auto-da-fe, and purification by fire.
Sometimes you have to burn a witch to save her from the fires of Hell.
I agree completely !!!!!
However, I lost many relatives during the Spanish inquisition accused falsely by Torquemada and minions.
Ah yes. . .nuts with torches and pitchforks. . .yet another reason to be armed.
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
The Spanish Inquisition had some interesting rules of evidence. If a witness lied about the accused, he was punished for his perjury, but if the accused was convicted anyway, his false testimony was given full weight at the sentencing.
I know a few witches who might object to this...
I could think of more folks than just witches who would object to it.
Hitler did this. He killed the Jews to rid us, and them, of themselves.
This was a most convenient way to get rid of people that were garnering too much power, and a way to seize their land and money and estates and titles etc.....
Most of the time the charges were FALSE !!!!!
However, nobody in the Grand Inquistors office cared if the charges were FALSE anyway, unless it was someone they did not want to burn!
Cardinal Ximinez of Spain made a good job of it.
"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again............."
Believe in God, or don't. Makes no difference to me. But, don't let someone else convince you. Figure it out for yourself, or decide to wait for more evidence, if you can't figure it out.
But, if man has a soul, which I believe he does, he should try to live his life according to what that 'inner voice' is telling him is right. Mine tells me not to be subjugated by anyone, especially someone with a lesser sense of morality than I have.
A theological opinion on personal defense,
Then expound on this quote;
I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them."
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...."
:that::agree::up::applause:
:agree::that:
The "Golden rule", or some variation thereof, is really all that's needed.
The Holy Inquisition exists - but with a more restrained mission, and under a different name. The first change was renaming it the Holy Office, then it became The Congregation For The Doctrine Of The Faith. Even so ... be careful out there.
A line from a John Wayne movie? Really?
Hillel the elder said;
.. the expression of the ethic of reciprocity, or "Golden Rule": "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."
That is why I quoted John Wayne....