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Guns that don't get any respect.

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  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    "no conception of Liberty and even today that idea is limited. Sometimes old habits don't want to die."

    However, that concept prevails in many Countries, in the Dominican Republic, a minor could go into any store and buy alcohol or tobacco, yet drinking and smoking among the young is very limited, lots of anti drinking anti smoking youth groups.
    Most of my relatives in that Country with only a few few exceptions had firearms, even if they could afford them and most could !
    Firearms ? perish the thought ! vile corrupt Gangsters, Police, Military... guns being the Devils tool....
    America is unique when it comes to guns in general.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,744 Senior Member
    The M1 carbines were never meant to replace the Garands, they were meant to replace the 1911s for those who carried them....machine gun crews, tankers, etc. The M2 was fully automatic and I think designed to replace submachine guns. Both were popular because of their weight. One reason the men of Fox Company thought they didn't penetrate well is because the jackets of the Reds were usually frozen with moisture.

    But in every war, I suppose the soldier or Marine isn't satisfied with the dropping power of his weapon. Especially the old guard, and most especially at the ranges the Fox Company Marines engaged the enemy, which was dozens of yards rather than hundreds of yards. Added to that is the Chinese attacked in hordes, and shooting until they dropped meant the Commie beside the one they shot was shooting at you. A 150 gr bullet at 2800 fps is certainly going to offer more than the 110 gr traveling at half that speed. The closer they get, the more you want them to fall.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 7,959 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    I'm re-reading "The Last Stand of Fox Company," about the Korean War at the Chosin. The Marines thought the carbine lacked stopping power and they had to choose head shots. This could be a false impression, of course, but it was widely held enough to be part of the folklore, at least of Fox Comapny. The book is non- fiction. It's available on Kindle and extremely good.

    My dad was a WWII vet who served in the Phillipenes during the last part of the war. While in basic training, he scored in the top category with the M1 Garand, and thought highly of it. When he got to the Phillipines, he was issued an M1 Carbine. He was unable to hit a gallon jug at 80 yards with it. Needless to say, he was not impressed.

    As far as being a better option than a .45, I can't speak to that. To my knowledge, he never carried a .45, and never had to shoot anyone with the carbine.

    All things said, though, I'd still like to have one.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • Elk creekElk creek Senior Member Posts: 6,481 Senior Member
    For the life of me I can't remember where but, I read that he cold temperatures of the Korean winter and the choice of powder in relatively new M1 round was not ideal. The round simply did not perform very well in the cold weather.
    Aim higher, or get a bigger gun.
  • NomadacNomadac Senior Member Posts: 902 Senior Member
    My two favorites are:
    Remington Mdl. 760 pump action .30-06 because it is not a bolt action.
    Remington Mdl. 14 pump action .30 Remington that I inherited from my Uncle. His friends used to call it a pop gun, because of the small caliber. He probably shot more deer and 3 moose with his pop gun. When his friends were using larger calibers he was just as successful.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,744 Senior Member
    Elk creek wrote: »
    For the life of me I can't remember where but, I read that he cold temperatures of the Korean winter and the choice of powder in relatively new M1 round was not ideal. The round simply did not perform very well in the cold weather.

    I proposed that on basically the same subject a few years ago. That may be what you're thinking. A point of clarification: the M1 is the Garand, the M1 Carbine must have "Carbine" after it to be meaningful.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    The main issue with the M-1 carbines effectiveness or deficiencies, was it's ammo, soft point ammo was / is specifically designed for hunting, and performs far better for terminal effects, than standard Military ball ammo, which would zip through Germany's red deer and they would run wounded into the forrest never to be found.

    According to my friend Calvin, he later understood the ammo problem, soft point ammo would drop similar weight deer at the exact same ranges he shot deer in Germany.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • AntonioAntonio Senior Member Posts: 2,697 Senior Member
    "Land of the free and home of the brave" indeed....freedoms enjoyed in the U.S. (REAL ones, not byproduct of poor law enforcement and social behavior) are only watched in awe from other countries.

    Another poorly rated gun around here are .32 S&W revolvers; most were old 4" police-issue that later ('70s) were replaced with .38s and after that .357s (Still used by cops, although Magnum ammo isn't issued since it's considered "too dangerous"...go figure!) so lots of them found their way to civilian hands, but were usually considered as "too light" "prone to breaking" (Never have seen a S&W "breaking" although quite a few old Rossis have shown failures) and "too weak" using LRN ammo. Yes, they're not a Patrolman but wouldn't feel like carrying a plastic toy if having one....that is of course if proper loads can be used.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,744 Senior Member
    I don't think Model 10 S&Ws get the respect they deserve. I mean, they get some, but nothing like they should. They're fine affordable handguns and the .38 Special is a very good round. The Model 13s kinda sealed the deal on Model 10s. I carried one for years and felt confident with it...the model 65, actually. Fixed sights rule.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    Nomadac wrote: »
    My two favorites are:
    Remington Mdl. 760 pump action .30-06 because it is not a bolt action.
    Remington Mdl. 14 pump action .30 Remington that I inherited from my Uncle. His friends used to call it a pop gun, because of the small caliber. He probably shot more deer and 3 moose with his pop gun. When his friends were using larger calibers he was just as successful.

    People didn't know what a pop gun is. The 30 Remington is nothing but a rimless 30-30 and the 30-30 is no pop gun. with the right bullets, shot placement, and if you stay within its effective range, the 30-30 or 30 Remington will kill about anything on this continent. And who made better pump guns than Remington back in the day? My lifelong friend and his dad had a model 14 30 Remington and that was the only high powered rifle they owned. They were ranchers and carried that thing in their jeep all the time. They shot deer and hogs as far back as I can remember and their whole family filled their deer tags with that one gun every year. That rifle probably killed more deer than all my guns put together. The Model 14 in 30 Remington is a very effective deer and medium game in general rifle and deserves great respect in my opinion.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,928 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    I don't think Model 10 S&Ws get the respect they deserve. I mean, they get some, but nothing like they should. They're fine affordable handguns and the .38 Special is a very good round. The Model 13s kinda sealed the deal on Model 10s. I carried one for years and felt confident with it...the model 65, actually. Fixed sights rule.

    :agree: Which is kind of a good thing...it keeps the prices down for the most part.
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,497 Senior Member
    Hi Wall and Low Wall Winchesters/Brownings/1885s. Not too well known outside of select groups.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    Nobody's mentioned a Hi Point Pistol? I mean I know they aren't exactly sexy, but I've never heard of one failing. They don't seem to be shoddily machined, they're cheap made, but so is a model 700 Remington. As far as I've ever heard they'll go bang when you pull the trigger and you can hit the side of a barn from the inside! Hey, that would be good marksmanship for me, hehehe! Now, I didn't mention Taurus because I didn't want to be accused of agitating on here. But the Hi-Point is a good poor man's pistol. But it gets almost NO RESPECT! Is there no justice in the world?

    :tooth:
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    Th OLD Mossberg 22s
    The wife and I both have 151Mb She inherited hers and after playing with it, I bought one for myself.

    Yep, people laugh a my US 44D bolt rifle ... until they shot it. Same goes for my little dove shotgun, an old LC Smith 20ga that "floats" when shoulder it and lead a bird.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    Allowed to shoot, own firearms, Japan could have indoor pistol ranges, shorter range rifle ranges, not every range has to be a 1,000 + meter proposition, there is freedom here in America, and once people taste it, some few opt to stay, most go back, but I hope they carry that seed always.....

    " The average Filip.ino can't afford a gun. I had one brother in law that owned a Taurus
    .357 Mag. that I don't think he had ever shot, he had it for self defense."

    Well, I would think lots of people in many Countries could not afford the ever popular
    Honda Super Cub 50 cc - 100 cc Motorcycles, 70 cc being common as dirt, but if somone wants one badly enough, same thing with guns, even in America, some people could never see past the $ 120 price tag of a High-point pistol, they just will NOT pay $500 for a quality gun ! Other people will, depends on your point of view and philosophy in life, and what era somone grew up too.
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    Allowed to shoot, own firearms, Japan could have indoor pistol ranges, shorter range rifle ranges, not every range has to be a 1,000 + meter proposition, there is freedom here in America, and once people taste it, some few opt to stay, most go back, but I hope they carry that seed always.....

    " The average Filip.ino can't afford a gun. I had one brother in law that owned a Taurus
    .357 Mag. that I don't think he had ever shot, he had it for self defense."

    Well, I would think lots of people in many Countries could not afford the ever popular
    Honda Super Cub 50 cc - 100 cc Motorcycles, 70 cc being common as dirt, but if somone wants one badly enough, same thing with guns, even in America, some people could never see past the $ 120 price tag of a High-point pistol, they just will NOT pay $500 for a quality gun ! Other people will, depends on your point of view and philosophy in life, and what era somone grew up too.

    I see what you're saying here, but in the Philippines you will see a lot of motorcycles. You see a lot more motorcycles than guns. But that's because those that have guns don't advertise them. There's probably almost just as many guns as motorcycles.

    But there are a lot more people than Motorcycles or guns. The people that have motor cycles and/or guns there, other than the rich are those that have a sibling or parent with a real good job who is an overseas worker(Some overseas workers don't make much more than those with jobs in the Philippines and only go work overseas because they can't get a job at home). And although there are lots of those, there's still a lot of people there that don't have an income source to buy these luxuries. Yep, while we here consider guns to be a necessity, in places like the Philippines Life is not even a necessity. So guns are way down the totem pole of Items deemed needed for every day getting by there.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,928 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Nobody's mentioned a Hi Point Pistol? I mean I know they aren't exactly sexy, but I've never heard of one failing. They don't seem to be shoddily machined, they're cheap made, but so is a model 700 Remington. As far as I've ever heard they'll go bang when you pull the trigger and you can hit the side of a barn from the inside! Hey, that would be good marksmanship for me, hehehe! Now, I didn't mention Taurus because I didn't want to be accused of agitating on here. But the Hi-Point is a good poor man's pistol. But it gets almost NO RESPECT! Is there no justice in the world?

    :tooth:

    There's a reason for that...anything made of ZAMAK is not deserving of respect.....I can make a zip gun that goes off every time i pull the trigger -
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Besides, if you watch the videos, Hickok 45 made one, the High-Point failed quite a few times, and he said; at $ 120 or so, you can always buy something better !!!!

    Buds gunshop has S&W revolvers, SS Police trade ins that sell for around $ 175 every now and then, or various other good quality used guns in the $200 - $300, so no, There is no compelling need to buy a Hi-Point, only if the buyer insists on buying one, if I .. had that dilemma, I would buy a used Mossberg 500 beater shotgun first, then save up for a quality handgun......


    Note that at no time did I mention any Grandmas
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    Freezer wrote: »
    Jerm, your kidding right? The Nambu got no respect because it deserved no respect. Even when handled correctly it its prone to accidental discharge.
    Why are you dragging me into this? I can see where you can get the two of us mixed up because we both have awesome facial hair, are great dancers, and all the women want us... but the fact of the matter is that I wear pants and Zorba doesn't!
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,744 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    Besides, if you watch the videos, Hickok 45 made one, the High-Point failed quite a few times, and he said; at $ 120 or so, you can always buy something better !!!!

    Buds gunshop has S&W revolvers, SS Police trade ins that sell for around $ 175 every now and then, or various other good quality used guns in the $200 - $300, so no, There is no compelling need to buy a Hi-Point, only if the buyer insists on buying one, if I had that dilemma, I would buy a used
    Mossberg 500 beater shotgun first, then sage up for a quality handgun......

    The one I saw with Hickock45 had only one failure and he said he'd been shooting it for a while beforehand without failure. There were other issues with it, especially with loading a new magazine but only one failure. A Highpoint on grandma's bedroom table is better than a Mossberg 500 sitting in the corner. They have their place and I've never had one nor will I ever, but for say, a person living alone on a fixed income they're better than nothing.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 7,959 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    There's a reason for that...anything made of ZAMAK is not deserving of respect.....I can make a zip gun that goes off every time i pull the trigger -

    Not sure what Zamak is, but if it's what Hi-Point uses to make their carbines, I like it. I've had one for years, and I'd trust my life to it.

    Now, about that zip gun....
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 4,960 Senior Member
    Zamak , zinc aluminum alloy, better known as "pot metal"

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,497 Senior Member
    It's also spelled "Zamac."
    Zinc
    Aluminum
    Magnesium
    and
    Copper/Kupfer - German for copper
    Overkill is underrated.
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    There's a reason for that...anything made of ZAMAK is not deserving of respect.....I can make a zip gun that goes off every time i pull the trigger -

    Does that include Henry .22 rifles? Granted, it's only the receiver cover but...
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Somehow, you don't read very GOOD, it is what I would do, not Grandma, and if Grandma consulted me, I would help her buy something better much better, and she is not even MY GRANDMA !

    And yes, a shotgun is a great start and great General defensive porpoise arm.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    Six-Gun wrote: »
    What's incredible is seeing them loose in a place where they actually are allowed to shoot.
    That is hilarious! I am so used to people misspelling the word lose as "loose" so much, I almost read that wrong.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • calebibcalebib Senior Member Posts: 1,701 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    Besides, if you watch the videos, Hickok 45 made one, the High-Point failed quite a few times, and he said; at $ 120 or so, you can always buy something better !!!!

    Buds gunshop has S&W revolvers, SS Police trade ins that sell for around $ 175 every now and then, or various other good quality used guns in the $200 - $300, so no, There is no compelling need to buy a Hi-Point, only if the buyer insists on buying one, if I .. had that dilemma, I would buy a used Mossberg 500 beater shotgun first, then save up for a quality handgun......


    Note that at no time did I mention any Grandmas
    I once had a customer buy 4 hi points at the same time. 380, 9, 40 and 45. For the same money he could have bought one really good gun. I just don't get it.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
  • Elk creekElk creek Senior Member Posts: 6,481 Senior Member
    calebib wrote: »
    I once had a customer buy 4 hi points at the same time. 380, 9, 40 and 45. For the same money he could have bought one really good gun. I just don't get it.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

    Four is always better than one! Right? I've seen the same thing. Kid brings in grandpas rifle, usually a nice one, wanting a tatical shotgun and a "9 or 40 hi cap".
    Aim higher, or get a bigger gun.
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 8,150 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    That is hilarious! I am so used to people misspelling the word lose as "loose" so much, I almost read that wrong.
    That had to be one of THE most common misspellings on the interwebs.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    Many years ago when I first moved to Denver I had very shallow pockets and lived in a somewhat seedy place. I bought a Montgomery Ward bolt action shotgun for not much more than a carton of cigarettes for HD.. I'm sure it would have got plenty of respect during unfortunate fortune.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • LMLarsenLMLarsen Senior Member Posts: 8,337 Senior Member
    I've also seen non-Fabrique Nationale or Browning P35s get the hairy eyeball. I owned an Argentine P35 when Wife and I were first married, outfitted with Millett high-visibility sights, a wide C&S trigger (sans magazine safety), and Uncle Mike's Spegel-pattern rubber grips. Durned if that wasn't a fine pistol, and shot every bit as good as a buddy's fancy engraved Hi Power Renaissance Model. I've heard similar good reports on the Hungarian variants as well.

    I had to sell it when the money ran out, but I'd be perfectly happy with another Argentine today.
    “A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”

    NRA Endowment Member
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